EEVblog Electronics Community Forum
General => General Technical Chat => Topic started by: PartialDischarge on January 02, 2017, 09:13:18 am
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Recently I received an item I purchased over ebay using the global shipping program. Its a bulky 3589A, the image on the CRT was fine from the multiples pictures of the listing, but upon receipt the CRT image is tilted (a lot) and 2 opposed corners are not visible. I'm still not sure if its a mechanical or electrical issue. It may seem trivial that its a mechanical one, but that doesn't explain the blackness in the corners. Besides the equipment doesn't have a 'rotation' adjustment of the image.
Anyway, I'll devote time to its repair later. My question is can I ask for a partial refund? on what grounds?
Thanks
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Looks like something that could have happened in shipping. Seems pretty unfair on the seller to request a partial refund. Just fix it and be done with it. It's probably just the deflection yoke has come adrift.
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Looks like something that could have happened in shipping. Seems pretty unfair on the seller to request a partial refund. Just fix it and be done with it. It's probably just the deflection yoke has come adrift.
Hmm, I didn't think of the yoke and that must be it, as the tube itself seems to be in place. Anyway having to repair it doesn't make me exactly happy as this thing has more screws than a submarine :-\
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This is always a risk you take, when you order heavy equipment from far away.
This can not be the sellers fault.
The fix might be very easy, most likely something came loose.
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This is always a risk you take, when you order heavy equipment from far away.
This can not be the sellers fault.
That was my first impression, however I asked as I remember reading a comment from someone here who had a similar experience and got a partial refund. Besides I don't want our US friends to find an excuse not to ship items overseas :D
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If a seller did give a partial refund for what is most likely a shipping provider fault they're only doing so because they don't want an (unfair) negative rating and would rather bleed themselves than fight over it.
All that's going to happen is that they're going to be more disinclined to sell overseas in the future, as well as being quite angry inside. The seller complied with their legal obligation of the sale, if there's a refund to be given it needs to come from the delivery company (and good luck with that - expect $0, even if you insure it to the maximum ).
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Was it packed for shipping in accordance with either the manufacturer's recommendations or generally accepted good practice?
If the GSP was involved, did the shipper remove packaging and repack?
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This looks like a minior adjustment problem. There is a video on EEvblog channel with a fix for this. The seller should not be held responsible.
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If a seller did give a partial refund for what is most likely a shipping provider fault they're only doing so because they don't want an (unfair) negative rating and would rather bleed themselves than fight over it.
All that's going to happen is that they're going to be more disinclined to sell overseas in the future, as well as being quite angry inside.
I agree and I probably will not demand one. However if you search "partial refund" on the forum you'll find lots of users who got one for similar reasons
if there's a refund to be given it needs to come from the delivery company (and good luck with that - expect $0, even if you insure it to the maximum ).
Well, I disagree here. I'm not sure who pays for the insurance here or even if its insured. However I can tell you that in my professional experience I've had insurance companies pay thousands of € for equipment damages during transport.
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Was it packed for shipping in accordance with either the manufacturer's recommendations or generally accepted good practice?
Given the size and weight the packaging was acceptable
If the GSP was involved, did the shipper remove packaging and repack?
Doesn't seem like it.
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if there's a refund to be given it needs to come from the delivery company (and good luck with that - expect $0, even if you insure it to the maximum ).
Well, I disagree here. I'm not sure who pays for the insurance here or even if its insured. However I can tell you that in my professional experience I've had insurance companies pay thousands of € for equipment damages during transport.
I was running on the assumption that the unit in question was valued of perhaps in the hundreds, maybe a thousand and shipped via a national postal service? High value shipment via private delivery couriers of course can be a different outcome. We've had to write off thousands due to postal service damages/losses because even with the items insured the postal service frequently opts to make you run through a lot of red tape before finally giving you a minor fraction of the insured amount - quite disheartening, and no doubt intended ( as a point of interest here in Australia, the default insurance return value of $50 hasn't changed in 25 years >:( )
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Looks like something that could have happened in shipping. Seems pretty unfair on the seller to request a partial refund. Just fix it and be done with it. It's probably just the deflection yoke has come adrift.
Being ebay seller myself, it's the seller who is responsible for the item before it reaches your hands. Therefore if the item is damaged during shipping, regardless if the packaging was adequate or not, it's still a seller's responsibility. So I don't see how this is unfair to ask for partial refund.
EDIT: I didn't read thoroughly enough. It's GSP. I have read they often repackage items, on top of that seller may not know he/she was shipping overseas. So yeah, asking for refund might be unfair.
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Question:
What is "GSP" ? Got it, "Global Shipping Program", thanks :-+
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Interestingly this unit came directly from GSP central in Kentucky via DHL!
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I have ordered a multimeter from USA under global shipping program , it got damaged during shipping ,
eBay refund my whole money from there pocket not seller , because under global shipping program eBay is responsible for shipping.
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It looks like a simple case of the deflection yoke twisting. Except for issues of access, the fix is trivial.
Yes, this is exactly why US sellers are wary of international selling. And international buying as well.
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It looks like a simple case of the deflection yoke twisting. Except for issues of access, the fix is trivial.
Yes, this is exactly why US sellers are wary of international selling. And international buying as well.
true ! the fix is trivial not Hard :-/O
or use on a sloping bench :-DD
which is better cut a bit off the bench legs or open it up & do some yoke twisting ?
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maybe someone can post a step by step guide to the CRT tube yoke on this model. so it can be fixed with out a lot of drama. :scared:
if the CRT uses definition plates? not a yoke, as most or all CRT oscilloscopes do, then the whole Cathode Ray Tube needs twisting in its cradle.
this may help? electronics engineers are expected to solve a problems like this as a matter of course.
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It looks like a simple case of the deflection yoke twisting. Except for issues of access, the fix is trivial.
Yes, this is exactly why US sellers are wary of international selling. And international buying as well.
ALL purchasers are wary of this. It is just that those of us in the US have more options and are not forced to deal with the problem.
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Ok... last year I bought a 40Kg robot and controller from a US seller using the GSP. Cost was £2500 or so plus shipping.
He packaged the 20Kg arm in a wooden crate, a very professional job I couldn't have done better myself. That arrived undamaged. The 20Kg controller was in a cardboard box and despite arriving with the packaging looking ok the metal case of the controller was quite badly dented around the mains inlet area.
I took pictures and sent them to the seller via eBay and asked for a token refund of £100 or so to cover my time taking it apart and repairing the cosmetic damage. It all went quiet for a few weeks and then I got an email from eBay saying they were issuing me with a 'courtesy refund' of the whole £2500 plus shipping and that I could keep the goods no need to return them. Amazing.
As long as the seller gets it to the GSP depot in good shape then eBay take full responsibility for any damage after that. The refund eBay issued to me never came out of the sellers pocket, the seller knew nothing about the refund. Ebay also cancelled any feedback about the transaction, they just made the whole situation 'go away' without any fuss at all.
The GSP does a very good job of protecting the seller, and eBay do a very good job of looking after the buyer as well.
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Interesting, because I haven't had quite the same luck with GSP when a seller, from whom I bought two items, inadvertently switched the shipping labels. I gave up in the end, talking to eBay I find is typically a fruitless journey other than to waste your time and raise your blood pressure to Chernobyl proportions. I received one item but not the other, but because the seller had switched labels, the item was shown as shipped.
Anyway, I hadn't realised that GSP has its own insurance, or that they repackage items.
As a matter of interest, assuming you're purchasing on behalf of a company, how do you deal with reclaiming the VAT on GSP items? I just get a separate Pitney Bowes bill, but it's not a VAT invoice.
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If that's all that was wrong with it, not a bad find.
If you ever buy the S-parameter test set for it, let me know. I have some questions about it.
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First of all, the unit is repaired, I never said the fix wasn't easy or that I didn't know how to repair it. However this 'easy' fix took me 2:30 hours, in between disassembly, assembly, and 5 tries to get the yoke assembly in the right position, with partial re-assemblies in between to check the screen.
Second, the yoke assembly was loose and could me moved easily by hand, so this problem would have happened even if the buyer lived 20 miles from the seller, so this issue cannot be blamed on the item being shipped abroad.
Lastly I used loctite 243 on the locking screw. By the way this device is built like a tank, metal shielding and liners everywhere.
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If that's all that was wrong with it, not a bad find.
If you ever buy the S-parameter test set for it, let me know. I have some questions about it.
Thanks, still have to run some performance tests on it, If I spot the S-parameter test at a nice price I'll definitively go for it.
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That's a no good, you've got the whole thing upside down now! :-DD
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That's a no good, you've got the whole thing upside down now! :-DD
That increases the sensitivity as gravity pulls the peaks downward.
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My question is can I ask for a partial refund? on what grounds?
Of course you can ask for a partial refund but whether it's reasonable or not is another thing?
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If that's all that was wrong with it, not a bad find.
If you ever buy the S-parameter test set for it, let me know. I have some questions about it.
Thanks, still have to run some performance tests on it, If I spot the S-parameter test at a nice price I'll definitively go for it.
I have used mine with a coupler and was going to write some software for it to do some basic calculations but never got around to it. The test set is connected with a serial port. There are some notes in the service manual about the command set. The 3589A is expecting something from the test set to ID it. If I could have sorted this out, I was hoping to then use some of the built in math with a standard coupler.
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As a matter of interest, assuming you're purchasing on behalf of a company, how do you deal with reclaiming the VAT on GSP items? I just get a separate Pitney Bowes bill, but it's not a VAT invoice.
I've posted on here a number of times about Pitney Bowes being thieves and pretending they collect VAT on behalf of HMC&E. In the T&C of the GSP it states that it's for use by private individuals and not commercial buyers. They probably ship all the stuff labelled up as 'tractor parts' and pay non of the money they collect to HMC&E at all.
I got pissed off trying to get a proper VAT invoice off them and I spoke to the VAT helpline about it. They seemed bemused by the whole situation I described and couldn't help.
So now I just estimate the split between shipping and VAT from the Pitney Bowes bill, if I ever get a VAT inspection I'll fight it out with the inspector.
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Personally, I have asked for a partial refund when the packing was obviously bad and the item was damaged but I wanted to repair it rather than returning it. This was when it was clearly incompetent packing (for example, my HP 6002A was shipped just in a box, basically nothing around it -- surprisingly all it needed was a new power switch and binding posts).