Author Topic: Qaher-313, what do you guys think....  (Read 6274 times)

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Offline IvoS

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Qaher-313, what do you guys think....
« on: February 05, 2013, 09:40:11 pm »
 

Offline tom66

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Re: Qaher-313, what do you guys think....
« Reply #1 on: February 05, 2013, 10:02:33 pm »
It looks like a scale model -- doesn't quite look right to me...
 

Online Wytnucls

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Re: Qaher-313, what do you guys think....
« Reply #2 on: February 05, 2013, 11:19:48 pm »
Amazingly, it does fly. There is some footage of it in flight on some channel. Probably Iran TV.
It is quite small and the cockpit avionics systems look very basic. Probably mostly F-5 technology. It may be stealth, but if it hasn't got internal bays for weaponry, that would defeat the object.
The canopy looks strange, very uneven, causing a lot of distortions.
I don't think the Israeli air force is terribly worried.
« Last Edit: February 05, 2013, 11:25:10 pm by Wytnucls »
 

Offline sorin

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Re: Qaher-313, what do you guys think....
« Reply #3 on: February 06, 2013, 12:27:04 am »
 :-+
 

Offline Zad

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Re: Qaher-313, what do you guys think....
« Reply #4 on: February 06, 2013, 12:46:24 am »
Check the close-up of the inside of the cockpit.

The Air Speed Indicator (ASI) red-lines at 250 knots.

The panel to the right of the pilot's knee is a commercial road vehicle GPS. Complete with Trafficmaster.

The inside of the plane's skin is clearly fibreglass. A fibreglass cockpit with a (rocket) ejector seat...

http://thumbsnap.com/f/BTdHLQaS






Online Wytnucls

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Re: Qaher-313, what do you guys think....
« Reply #5 on: February 06, 2013, 01:03:11 am »
Yes, this one is definitely a mock-up. They may have a real one built a bit more conventionally.  ;)
 

Offline TerraHertz

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Re: Qaher-313, what do you guys think....
« Reply #6 on: February 06, 2013, 08:25:36 am »
Horse's mouth, so to speak:

http://www.irandefence.net/showthread.php?t=74422&highlight=F-313  Qaher 313: prototype/mock up of Iranian stealth fighter

http://www.irandefence.net/showthread.php?t=74451   Top 10 important features of F-313

http://www.irandefence.net/showthread.php?t=74455&highlight=F-313  Qaher Wikipedia page is converted into Israeli Freak show

http://www.presstv.ir/detail/2013/02/01/286734/iran-to-unveil-new-indigenous-fighter-jet/

I find it quite an interesting airplane. The aim appears to be to produce an extremely low cost, rapidly manufacturable effective aircraft, that can be made in great numbers and probably doesn't need highly trained pilots. That is also highly maneuverable and fairly radar stealthy.
This fits with Iran's general commitment to asymmetric warfare for self defense, against opponents who rely on relatively small numbers of high cost, high technology armaments.
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Online Wytnucls

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Re: Qaher-313, what do you guys think....
« Reply #7 on: February 06, 2013, 09:27:57 am »
I can see a few possible Achilles' heels:
The radar: If not of the latest advanced technology, this thing doesn't stand a chance.
The engine: If it is a homegrown version of the F-5's engine, performance and reliability will be an issue. If they are using old engine stocks, numbers will be quite modest.
Range: Iran is a large country, with internal weaponry limiting space for fuel load , lack of drop tanks and inflight refuelling, adequate runway availability close to the action will be important.
Training: Modern warfare requires highly trained pilots, with great emphasis on effective communication and electronic warfare, regardless of aircraft type.
 

Offline ftransform

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Re: Qaher-313, what do you guys think....
« Reply #8 on: February 06, 2013, 11:44:49 am »
bird of prey
bird of prey
flying high
flying high
in the summer sky
bird of prey
bird of prey
 flying high
flying high
gently pass on by
bird of prey
bird of prey
flying high
flying high
am i going to die?
 

Offline Mechatrommer

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Re: Qaher-313, what do you guys think....
« Reply #9 on: February 06, 2013, 12:46:26 pm »
where i have to put my face? :palm:
It's extremely difficult to start life.. one features of nature.. physical laws are mathematical theory of great beauty... You may wonder Why? our knowledge shows that nature is so constructed. We simply have to accept it. One could describe the situation by saying that... (Paul Dirac)
 

Offline tom66

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Re: Qaher-313, what do you guys think....
« Reply #10 on: February 06, 2013, 02:46:54 pm »
So cheap/low cost --> pilot is disposable?
 

Offline SeanB

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Re: Qaher-313, what do you guys think....
« Reply #11 on: February 06, 2013, 05:06:20 pm »
Hope that ejection seat is reliable. Not good if it fails when you need it, or operates when you do not.

Simple controls, low load on the pilot so less training needed. With those small wings it will be an issue to fly slow n low without digging a hole. Will be fun landing..........

With a big enough engine even a turkey can be made to fly.
 

Offline nanofrog

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Re: Qaher-313, what do you guys think....
« Reply #12 on: February 07, 2013, 12:03:29 am »
There's a few aviation sites/forums debating this.

One example that might be worth a read http://theaviationist.com/2013/02/02/iran-new-stealth-fighter/.
 

Offline ecat

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Re: Qaher-313, what do you guys think....
« Reply #13 on: February 07, 2013, 01:03:06 am »
So, pilots untrained in flying but fluent in English?

"Danger"
"Remove before flight"
"Ejector seat"
"Do not push this button"

That was the first thing to strike me, all labels are in English which is strange for a home made Iranian item? Unless it was built for the attention of, oh, I don't know but maybe the foreign press.

 

Offline TerraHertz

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Re: Qaher-313, what do you guys think....
« Reply #14 on: February 07, 2013, 03:32:31 am »
All the "It's just a mock-up model! Fake, fake!" comments on various sites are amusing. Exactly the same squawking as when Iran was showing the captured US drone. (And the latter, different one.)
They all shut up when Obama pointlessly demanded it back.

Sending Obama a gift of a small plastic kid's toy replica of it was hilarious.
So was finding out Iran had electronically hijacked the supposedly highly secure pinnacle of CIA stealth engineering, and fooled it into thinking it was landing at its home base.

When you've got Israel continually for decades trying to destroy your country (via their huge, sadistic and strangely compliant thug accomplice), I guess a sense of humor is essential.


One interesting detail about the F-313. With the canopy raised, the cockpit rim lacks any neat canopy seal, and doesn't even look like it would be wind-proof. Then I noticed that with the canopy down, there's a  flexible trim flange around the canopy, that seals flush to the external skin. Cool! A rather clever cheap solution. And also means one less bit of metal exposed to an opponent's radar. I wonder if the canopy material itself is radar-absorbent? I was wondering about the metal parts inside the cockpit, and their radar cross section.
Collecting old scopes, logic analyzers, and unfinished projects. http://everist.org
 

Offline GK

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Re: Qaher-313, what do you guys think....
« Reply #15 on: February 07, 2013, 08:55:08 am »
Quote
When you've got Israel continually for decades trying to destroy your country (via their huge, sadistic and strangely compliant thug accomplice), I guess a sense of humor is essential

Yeah! Amerika and Israle EVIL!, Islamofascists GOOD!

« Last Edit: February 07, 2013, 08:57:53 am by GK »
Bzzzzt. No longer care, over this forum shit.........ZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
 

Offline SeanB

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Re: Qaher-313, what do you guys think....
« Reply #16 on: February 07, 2013, 04:21:42 pm »
Easy enough to make a polycarbonate loaded with thin carbon fibre that will absorb, and this will reduce the reflection off the canopy as well as reflection from inside. As well in most cases the RADAR will be underneath ( ground based units) looking up and then the canopy is concealed, or on top looking into a massive amount of ground clutter.

As a technology demonstrator ( which is what it is) it just has to fly reasonably well, all other modifications will take place during development. Initially you will have basic controls and improve them with development. That in SA took a Mirage III and eventually made it into a near totally redesigned Cheetah E, major avionics upgrades that replaced the valved radios and mechanical onboard computers with new quite sophisticated ones. Big improvements in reliability and ability.
 

Offline RCMR

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Re: Qaher-313, what do you guys think....
« Reply #17 on: February 07, 2013, 08:15:11 pm »
Amazingly, it does fly. There is some footage of it in flight on some channel. Probably Iran TV.
No, that's an RC model.

I've probably filmed more jet-powered RC models than anyone on the planet and it's easy to tell that this is an RC model.  One of the give-aways is that it shows the thing flying with its gear down at a scale speed that would rip a full-sized aircraft apart.

Pure showmanship and fakery on the part of Iran.
 

Online Wytnucls

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Re: Qaher-313, what do you guys think....
« Reply #18 on: February 07, 2013, 08:59:26 pm »
You're probably right. Apparently, the Iranians announced the existence of a smaller flying model. Nothing like the real thing yet.
It seeems that the whole presentation is just an exercise in wishful thinking.
I don't understand what they expect to achieve with this. They must have known that fooling the rest of the world had no chance of succeeding. As for local consumption, the population will get wise too, when they fail to see the wonder weapon in action.
At least, it will be stealth, because it will be nowhere to be seen. ;)
« Last Edit: February 07, 2013, 09:09:18 pm by Wytnucls »
 

Offline johnboxall

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Re: Qaher-313, what do you guys think....
« Reply #19 on: February 07, 2013, 10:32:17 pm »
When I first saw the photo of the cabin, I though there was a CD player in there for a moment.
 

Offline TerraHertz

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Re: Qaher-313, what do you guys think....
« Reply #20 on: February 08, 2013, 02:46:24 am »
You're probably right. Apparently, the Iranians announced the existence of a smaller flying model. Nothing like the real thing yet.
Actually, according to Arabic speakers, the news report showing the flying one plainly stated that it was a scale model. Which means it is 'like the real thing', just smaller. Purpose would be to prove the aerodynamics.
Whether the one shown close up is a scale model... unknown, but I suspect it's full size. The seat headrest could do with being higher perhaps, or maybe it's low to allow the pilot to look upwards. Also, there'd be no point making an '80% scale model' rather than 100%.

Quote
It seeems that the whole presentation is just an exercise in wishful thinking.
I don't understand what they expect to achieve with this.
More an announcement of a development project, which is expected to achieve a small, simple, cheap, stealthy, agile and mass-producible fighter/bomber jet. Still a highly useful exercise.

Quote
At least, it will be stealth, because it will be nowhere to be seen. ;)
I suspect they will be seen pretty soon. Iran has some very capable developers.

And good luck to them, I say. Our resident sayanim's opinion notwithstanding, it isn't Iran that is in defiance of at least 69 UN resolutions, definitely has many nuclear weapons and has threatened to use them against neighboring countries and also Europe, refuses to allow international inspections of its nuclear facilities, is conducting genocide against the original people of the country, and has repeatedly invaded and attacked multiple nearby countries including Iraq, Lebanon, Syria, Libya and Afghanistan.
Otoh, it IS Iran that hasn't attacked anyone for hundreds of years, and has resisted being invaded only due to maintaining a very strong self-defense capability.

Incidentally, Iran recently built a hypersonic wind tunnel for aerospace development.
  http://www.presstv.ir/detail/2013/02/03/287065/iran-builds-first-hypersonic-wind-tunnel/
Collecting old scopes, logic analyzers, and unfinished projects. http://everist.org
 

Online Wytnucls

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Re: Qaher-313, what do you guys think....
« Reply #21 on: February 08, 2013, 03:33:53 am »
There is no such thing as an effective, cheap, stealthy, agile,  fighter/bomber jet, except in your mind perhaps. If there ever was such a thing, the IAI would have produced one a long time ago. Keep on dreaming.
The only cheap modern fighter/bomber I know, is the fiberglass one that was presented to the press. The rest is just vaporware.
As for the flying scale model, no aircraft manufacturer in his right mind would bother with such a thing. That was possibly done in the 20s and 30s. With wind tunnels and powerful computers, development nowadays, is full scale from the very beginning.
« Last Edit: February 08, 2013, 03:58:27 am by Wytnucls »
 

Offline GK

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Re: Qaher-313, what do you guys think....
« Reply #22 on: February 08, 2013, 09:15:07 am »
Our resident sayanim's opinion notwithstanding <snip>


Since that was almost certainly directed at me, I'd like to point out that I don't take insults of that nature personally, as I'm not Jewish. If offends my sense of smell more than anything, and I have a bit of a tendency to react impolitely when the stench of certain people in my proximity reaches an unacceptable threshold. You could consider that a personality flaw. Good to see you true to form though.






« Last Edit: February 08, 2013, 09:22:49 am by GK »
Bzzzzt. No longer care, over this forum shit.........ZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
 


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