Author Topic: Car's ECU Performance Remapping  (Read 5823 times)

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Offline Mechatrommer

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Car's ECU Performance Remapping
« on: December 29, 2012, 08:37:33 pm »
have you heard this jargon? i learnt from another forum that my Toyota car performance can be remapped by simply resetting it (take out battery for several minutes to drain ECU power, and then put back power ON) and then drive with certain style, speeding up, hard braking etc. and then the ECU will remapped (re-learn) the new driving style and hence better performance and pick up at latter driving. it seems the ECU is adaptively or intelligently remapped and sounds too easy to be true. all i need to look for is what sequence and driving style i need to do in order to teach (or fool?) the ECU for a new map. anyone? with any brand car?

edit: so far this is what i learnt (usefull info) from this thread...
1) http://184.172.194.66/~wheels12/wheels_forum/index.php?topic=78078.0
2) http://www.yarisworld.com/forums/showthread.php?t=15869
3) http://www.torquecars.com/tuning/remapping-ecu.php
« Last Edit: December 30, 2012, 05:59:50 pm by Mechatrommer »
It's extremely difficult to start life.. one features of nature.. physical laws are mathematical theory of great beauty... You may wonder Why? our knowledge shows that nature is so constructed. We simply have to accept it. One could describe the situation by saying that... (Paul Dirac)
 

Offline Lightages

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Re: Car's ECU Performance Remapping
« Reply #1 on: December 29, 2012, 08:46:30 pm »
I have a Nissan Navara 4 cylinder diesel turbocharged 4x4. The ECU and the fuel pump control can be reset to a base mode by doing some specific sequences with the ignition key and accelerator pedal. Yes it does set things back to new status and the ECU will learn the best settings for all the conditions of driving as you drive more and more.

I assume that the benefit here is that the ECU probably only has a sufficient amount of map memory to account for most of your driving conditions. Eventually you probably get into a state where the memory is full or might get corrupted for whatever reason and things don't work as well as they might. This situation could be where making the ECU relearn might beneficial.

I don't think that doing a reset will have anything other than a short term benefit unless you always drive with your foot down all the time.
 

Offline Baliszoft

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Re: Car's ECU Performance Remapping
« Reply #2 on: December 29, 2012, 09:28:28 pm »
Yes, this does exist, although it depends on the (complexity of the) control unit itself. For example idle adaption, short and long term fuel trims are the most commonly "learnt" values/maps. However, no significant gains can be achieved by resetting these (based on my experiences). Remapping ECU is an other story.
 

Offline Mechatrommer

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Re: Car's ECU Performance Remapping
« Reply #3 on: December 29, 2012, 09:40:51 pm »
i guess resetting is for reflashing the memory with factory default map, and then the ecu will start to learn again. its reported in another forum that one local mechanic done this for life with success on many car brand. after the service, users reported significant difference in pick up and performance, steering and braking grip etc. for how long i'm not sure. it seems like the first re-learn is the most crucial part or at least last longer, but i'm not sure its his secret his doing it for business. at $100 equivalent to our currency. if its just driving and braking in sequence (and spraying some magic fluid to air filter according to them), then its phoolery real making money stuff for him. he told his customers the setting might be lost if they change car battery without turning the engine ON, so i believe it must be in RAM or something and the default factory mode is in ROM or FLASH for emergency reload or reset. somehow the info got leaked to him i wonder if there is a site giving such information.
It's extremely difficult to start life.. one features of nature.. physical laws are mathematical theory of great beauty... You may wonder Why? our knowledge shows that nature is so constructed. We simply have to accept it. One could describe the situation by saying that... (Paul Dirac)
 

Offline Baliszoft

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Re: Car's ECU Performance Remapping
« Reply #4 on: December 29, 2012, 09:58:53 pm »
These "learnt" values are usually stored in an eeprom and not in the flash rom. The flash rom is not altered at all, except when uploading a new firmware. I only can speak about the vw/audi brands (which i am familiar with), resetting the learnt stuff is simply done by clearing the fault codes (via obd) and nothing more. The ecu will slowly adapt again (mainly to the hardware), but this will not gain you significant amounts of power on these cars. Modifying the contents of the flash (chiptuning) can yield noticable gains however.
 

Offline justanothercanuck

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Re: Car's ECU Performance Remapping
« Reply #5 on: December 29, 2012, 11:06:51 pm »
From what I remember, resetting your ECU on a unmaintained car will result in the car thinking the engine is in perfect condition, which might actually make things worse.  Ideally, the only time you would want to reset the ECU is to clear error codes, or if you're improving the engine (bigger turbo, wheel size changes, etc), but most of those can be changed via the ODB port.
Maintain your old electronics!  If you don't preserve it, it could be lost forever!
 

Offline Lightages

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Re: Car's ECU Performance Remapping
« Reply #6 on: December 30, 2012, 03:47:18 am »
It all depends. Sometimes changing a dirty air filter that hasn't been changed for a long time will make the engine run badly due to the learned mapping over time with the dirty air filter. Resetting the ECU can have it relearn the renewed air flow more quickly. Or a major servicing with all the fueling system filters and air filter and spark plugs being changed could also need a reset to make things run more correctly again faster. Maybe you changed the injectors.... etc

On can also reprogram the ECU for better performance but requires a program change for more performance, not just resetting the ECU to relearn its environment.
 

Offline Mechatrommer

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Re: Car's ECU Performance Remapping
« Reply #7 on: December 30, 2012, 07:13:56 am »
in that forum, many "voodoo" ways to improve performance are already discussed. they call it piggyback (add-on) ecu, chiptuning, v-tune e-tune, pivot at drive, body ground cabling whatnot, but this particular one is different. the mechanic is reported to do minimal hardware modification (pretty much just taking battery ON and OFF several times and spraying magic fluid to air filter) of course throttle body is cleaned, spark plugs are cleaned or replaced, but thats standard procedure, nothing up to the point modifying injector, cutting block or adding turbo or accessories etc. with this minimal hardware modification, plus test drive for half an hour, speeding to max 180km/h and then emergency brake to activate ABS, and then hitting brake pedal twice (as reported by one of customer), pretty much every car's aspects are modified, as i mentioned, including the steering stiffness at hi speed, cornering and braking grip, engine noise improvement while idling and hi-rev, very light throttle pedal. man, for 3 hours job, its impossible to tune or modify all those in hardware. users are reporting their cars are instantaneously going from "family cruise mode" to "sport or racing mode".

another guy also doing the same tuning thing, but using obd stuff to modify the ecu parameters, charge about $200++, since tool is needed for that, then its not that interesting. the good thing about the aforementioned method is we dont need any special tool and the remap should be within the ecu's own wisdom, ie (just maybe but most likely) the ecu will not remap to funny stuff that can damage the car. but the bad thing is since the setting can be lost when battery is removed, then we need another trip to that guy to re-learn and pay the $100 bill, not cool. actually its impossible for me to meet the guy along with my car, he is over the sea, so double "not cool". so this might be some food for thought for car mania's out there. if you have something similar then i'll be glad if we can share here, for now, my car's standard setting wont hurt, but its good if i can have better (unleashing the power within, as they said).
It's extremely difficult to start life.. one features of nature.. physical laws are mathematical theory of great beauty... You may wonder Why? our knowledge shows that nature is so constructed. We simply have to accept it. One could describe the situation by saying that... (Paul Dirac)
 

Offline justanothercanuck

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Re: Car's ECU Performance Remapping
« Reply #8 on: December 30, 2012, 07:16:15 am »
It all depends. Sometimes changing a dirty air filter that hasn't been changed for a long time will make the engine run badly due to the learned mapping over time with the dirty air filter. Resetting the ECU can have it relearn the renewed air flow more quickly. Or a major servicing with all the fueling system filters and air filter and spark plugs being changed could also need a reset to make things run more correctly again faster. Maybe you changed the injectors.... etc

On can also reprogram the ECU for better performance but requires a program change for more performance, not just resetting the ECU to relearn its environment.

Yeah, that's true.  I just don't want to perpetuate the claim that "resetting" the ECU will magically make your car better...  So many newbie "ricers" think they can slap on some low-profile tires, a loud muffler, reset the ECU, and all of a sudden they have a car comparable to a Hollywood movie series whose name I refuse to mention.  :P
Maintain your old electronics!  If you don't preserve it, it could be lost forever!
 

Offline Mechatrommer

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Re: Car's ECU Performance Remapping
« Reply #9 on: December 30, 2012, 07:43:35 am »
I just don't want to perpetuate the claim that "resetting" the ECU will magically make your car better
yes but it does exist (in "underground" market) as many happy customers have reported and experienced in another forum. its not racing mania forum, but family mpv car forum, which happen to be my own car model (thats why i joined), and its our local forum majority local people they are humble people not maniacs. but we cant avoid that some people like to drive at speeding bullet (on straight highway). i'm not interested at speeding bullet, i only interested at the car's stability aspect of it. someone reported, driving "not like a canoe" anymore (swinging right left as like being hit by waves from the side).

...  So many newbie "ricers" think they can slap on some low-profile tires, a loud muffler, reset the ECU, and all of a sudden they have a car comparable to...
thats just stupid, we got alot of such kids, midnight racers. they are mostly hardcored hardware modified version, and ecu reset with another computer and dyno re-tuned, if that is even involved. what i can see is they are actually killing their car (or their father's car).

a Hollywood movie series whose name I refuse to mention.  :P
Dr Brown and his Delorean? or Toretto and O'Brien ;)
It's extremely difficult to start life.. one features of nature.. physical laws are mathematical theory of great beauty... You may wonder Why? our knowledge shows that nature is so constructed. We simply have to accept it. One could describe the situation by saying that... (Paul Dirac)
 

Offline Lightages

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Re: Car's ECU Performance Remapping
« Reply #10 on: December 30, 2012, 07:58:13 am »
The reports of these magic resets making any difference in the car will be up to two things:

1. That other things were changed too that did make a performance change that are being discounted.

2. The people are deluding themselves along the same way the audiophools delude themselves.
 

Offline Mechatrommer

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Re: Car's ECU Performance Remapping
« Reply #11 on: December 30, 2012, 08:13:22 am »
2. The people are deluding themselves along the same way the audiophools delude themselves.
i dont think so, hearing sound with ears is different from watching speedometer's reading imho. one obvious remark is "get to 180km/h easily" i know how it takes to get there.... i never get there :P at most was 160km/h on straight road and the car started to become stagnant unable to or barely accelerates anymore (or maybe i'm too afraid to press the pedal further :P). and this service is hot, at least the mechanic said (maybe just gimmick) but i have 2 or 3 convincing (and neutral) reports, and the thread i was reading was created by a happy customer (long time forum member) who kept recommending the mechanic again and again, they maybe have arranged something earlier but the OP denied it i dont know. the other $200+ service charge guy is also famous and has been known longer with no bad reputation, only bad reports about faulty gearbox after usage for sometime (speed devils maybe).
« Last Edit: December 30, 2012, 08:20:54 am by Mechatrommer »
It's extremely difficult to start life.. one features of nature.. physical laws are mathematical theory of great beauty... You may wonder Why? our knowledge shows that nature is so constructed. We simply have to accept it. One could describe the situation by saying that... (Paul Dirac)
 

Offline Mechatrommer

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Re: Car's ECU Performance Remapping
« Reply #12 on: December 30, 2012, 08:29:01 am »
this is the thread i was talking about, see for yourself. but sometime it mixed with our languange and highly broken stuffs, but i believe mostly english as the regulation required and you should be able to make out something, make your own judgement FWIW... the OP is wishingstar, 14 pages, thread opened more than a year ago and still got reply until recently.
http://www.wishclubmalaysia.my/index.php/forum/33-engine-bay/113440-my-wish-effortless-floored-full-speedometer-above-180kmh
It's extremely difficult to start life.. one features of nature.. physical laws are mathematical theory of great beauty... You may wonder Why? our knowledge shows that nature is so constructed. We simply have to accept it. One could describe the situation by saying that... (Paul Dirac)
 

Offline SeanB

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Re: Car's ECU Performance Remapping
« Reply #13 on: December 30, 2012, 09:17:05 am »
It will work on cars with active suspension, as then it is shifting to a sports mapping from the preset ones in rom, then using that. After a lot of gentler driving the settings will be modified for lowest fuel consumption ( default for non sport mode)  and softer suspension settings and braking effort. The modified maps are stored in RAM always, as they can be modified hundreds of times per hour as the ECU adapts to current driving conditions, as it adjusts timing, injection amounts and such per cycle and per firing pulse. It has a map per cylinder used for timing, updated every cycle based on previous cycles and sensor inputs.
 

Offline Baliszoft

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Re: Car's ECU Performance Remapping
« Reply #14 on: December 30, 2012, 11:58:05 am »
the mechanic is reported to do minimal hardware modification (pretty much just taking battery ON and OFF several times and spraying magic fluid to air filter) of course throttle body is cleaned, spark plugs are cleaned or replaced, but thats standard procedure, nothing up to the point modifying injector, cutting block or adding turbo or accessories etc. with this minimal hardware modification, plus test drive for half an hour, speeding to max 180km/h and then emergency brake to activate ABS, and then hitting brake pedal twice (as reported by one of customer), pretty much every car's aspects are modified, as i mentioned, including the steering stiffness at hi speed, cornering and braking grip, engine noise improvement while idling and hi-rev, very light throttle pedal. man, for 3 hours job, its impossible to tune or modify all those in hardware. users are reporting their cars are instantaneously going from "family cruise mode" to "sport or racing mode".

I dont want to be offensive at all, but this smells bs. Let alone replacing worn out spark plugs will yield several extra horsepowers (compared to the before state), but this is just fixing a bad car and not "optimizing" it any further. I would not pay anything for this voodoo thing. Get your car serviced regularly and give it some spirited runs occasionally and there you go.
 

Offline SeanB

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Re: Car's ECU Performance Remapping
« Reply #15 on: December 30, 2012, 12:12:51 pm »
Magic fluid is likely water, adding it to the charge air will result in a big power increase when it is injected as it cools the inlet air.
 

Offline Baliszoft

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Re: Car's ECU Performance Remapping
« Reply #16 on: December 30, 2012, 12:27:16 pm »
Magic fluid is likely water, adding it to the charge air will result in a big power increase when it is injected as it cools the inlet air.

True, but water (usually mixed with methanol) to act like this has to be injected along with the fuel during operation and not only once.
 

Offline G7PSK

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Re: Car's ECU Performance Remapping
« Reply #17 on: December 30, 2012, 02:40:33 pm »
I think all ECU learn a pattern of driving, I have noticed on the past few cars I have had that if I spend a lot of time just running about that the car seems to learn this pattern and when I go to floor the pedal for some reason there is a distinct lag in response but after a few times the car picks up faster this may be just the plugs clearing but I don' think so as I have then only got accelerate gently the once and the car is reluctant to accelerate rapidly the next time, I have found that pumping the pedal a few times prior to an overtake will make the overtaking maneuver easier.
 

Offline Mechatrommer

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Re: Car's ECU Performance Remapping
« Reply #18 on: December 30, 2012, 03:27:51 pm »
I think all ECU learn a pattern of driving, I have noticed on the past few cars I have had that if I spend a lot of time just running about that the car seems to learn this pattern...
i hope so the case with my car too. so all i need, is just to ensure my car is in tiptop condition (air intake, spark plugs etc), and then change my driving pattern to suit, in order the ecu to learn. i will reset battery if i need to, to ensure the ecu will learn fresh lesson. so the mechanic stuff is really just a phoolery stuff if it is really the case. as for cornering and steering grip at hi-rev, i guess its just ecu algorithm (wisdom) to change them as well (power steering or brake actuation) depending on existing map (driver's pattern) which is always has been there designed intelligently by the programmer in the first place. i really almost got into another phooled'lery community, thanks to electronics. maybe experimentation is in order to phool the ecu for better performance such as finding the correct formula for the "magic fluid" so next time during normal driving, the ecu is phooled to inject more gas, or leaner mixture whatnot. :-+ btw i think my car is using passive suspension, i havent notice any sensor or hydraulic piping going around them, so i guess its just placebo on that part's increased performance.
« Last Edit: December 30, 2012, 04:07:08 pm by Mechatrommer »
It's extremely difficult to start life.. one features of nature.. physical laws are mathematical theory of great beauty... You may wonder Why? our knowledge shows that nature is so constructed. We simply have to accept it. One could describe the situation by saying that... (Paul Dirac)
 

Offline N TYPE

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Re: Car's ECU Performance Remapping
« Reply #19 on: December 30, 2012, 03:31:23 pm »
Its true for most japanese cars.
They program the ECU with base map values for fuel and ignition, obviously the cars are supposed to be able to operate in all different climates and altitudes, and on different octane/quality of fuels.

When the ECU is reset It will fine tune itself for the first couple of km based on if it senses any knock (pre ignition), and the ratio of the O2 sensor in the exhaust and a handful of other variables in order to find the most efficient fuel mixtures.

The theory is that if you reset the ecu and then give the car a thrashing the ECU learns how to be most efficient with high revs and high engine loads.
Whether or not there is proof and supporting evidence is unknown to me, but I have tuned ECU's myself mostly on Nissan and Toyota sports cars and I believe it myself to be true.

The term Remapping is somewhat false in this interpretation as the cars factory 'maps' are normally located in OTP ROM and cannot be modified by the cpu. However changes are made in the way which the adjustment calculations are made.

This is just my opinion based on my personal experience so take it with a grain of salt, the bottom line is most of the information you gather regarding this subject will be heresay anyway.. If you want to get into ROM tuning, theres loads of info out there about it.
 

Offline Sionyn

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Re: Car's ECU Performance Remapping
« Reply #20 on: December 30, 2012, 03:33:52 pm »
ah yes these 'mechanic'  they told one of my friends also a ee that microchips ware out i think this chip that was wearing out was a simple smd voltage regulator.

you see  this voodoo stuff  with cars, just like the audiofools
eecs guy
 

Offline G7PSK

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Re: Car's ECU Performance Remapping
« Reply #21 on: December 30, 2012, 03:37:30 pm »
I forgot to mention that the past 2 cars I have had are automatic transmission with computer control and that is programmed to recognize the type of driver and driving which is something that I find a PITA on many occasions.
 

Offline SeanB

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Re: Car's ECU Performance Remapping
« Reply #22 on: December 30, 2012, 03:48:16 pm »
Most complex electronics in my car is the phone in my pocket..... Though the EMU is pretty complex it does not do all the whizz bang things, and i have a clutch and manual transmission.
 

Offline Mechatrommer

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Re: Car's ECU Performance Remapping
« Reply #23 on: December 30, 2012, 04:26:52 pm »
agree SeanB. i like my cheapo MT car better than this Automatic Toyota in term of responsiveness, its only limit is its small cc size, hence cannot go 180km/h but what the heck, only maniacs do that in public road. MT just follows what we want, AT follows its own wisdom. but my Toyota is the best AT i've found around me. tried national AT car is a total crap (esp during overtaking).

here's a forum that i just found interesting about Toyota ECU http://184.172.194.66/~wheels12/wheels_forum/index.php?topic=78078.0 . its inline with what N TYPE said and what the mechanic did. resetting the ECU, zeroing the tables, drive a few cycles then all blank tables got filled up and the ECU learnt. i was too concern with a specific steps easter egg like secret, but i guess its just the way we drive, most importantly after the ECU is reset. i guess this is for the car to learn new condition in another country and new owner when it goes out of its factory. :-+
It's extremely difficult to start life.. one features of nature.. physical laws are mathematical theory of great beauty... You may wonder Why? our knowledge shows that nature is so constructed. We simply have to accept it. One could describe the situation by saying that... (Paul Dirac)
 


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