Careless carriers

[eurofox]

Hi guy's,

I just want to share my opinion about buying and selling instruments on internet/ebay and ship it to the new home.

I'm not a trader just buy from time to time some instruments and selling what I don't need anymore.

Last week I sold an expensive instrument, it arrived damaged and was just dropped on the door from the now owner, he was not at home ....

Then the misery start ... , I packed it very well but when you drop a box with a 30 KG instrument you get problems

I got this week a nice nonovolmeter, it arrived very well packed but torn frame and broken case (plastic)

I evaluate to cancel ebay and paypal, the total fee when you are selling something is simply not reasonable anymore (ebay + paypal)

Check the video in attachment how some carriers behave 

[coppice]

Brutal carriers are a given in any shipping activity. That's not nice, but its reality, and its unrealistic to expect anything different. The important issue is how do you pack the stuff?

A 30kg instrument will have come from the factory in a really strong box, possibly made of wood (yeah, I know cardboard is made of wood, but you get what I mean). There will have been some shock absorbing material, like foam, snugly fitting the box and the instrument, carefully avoiding pressure on the instrument's most fragile bits. The density of that material will have been chosen to be a reasonable match for the size and weight of the instrument. They did this for a reason.

Shipping is a hassle, and most of us try to use shortcuts. People who ship stuff frequently don't. They usually equip themselves with things like liquid foam injector equipment, to quickly achieve a snug shock absorbing fit. Again, they don't take shortcuts for a reason.

If you don't take packing seriously, then expect a poor success rate.

[Yago]

wow ... i had such high regard for DHL ... but now 
then again .... comparing my past 6 months of recieving items ... the winner are a particular china forwarder who help me ship taobao items, every item is in original "shape", compared to items i ordered from ebay, amazon , etc (non-taobao based) ... 7 out of 10 will arrive in crushed state ... its really sad !

Wanna try Royal Mail.
Get all this and their tracking consists of you knowing what's going on when the parcel is in your hand.

I am sat here awaiting an LCR meter from Japan, the thing crossed Japan and left there in 24Hrs. That was a couple of weeks ago and nothing at all now.
Last time the stupid ba****ds, filled in the track and trace info online AFTER I had received the parcel.

It's bad when you mail carrier takes that much time and is that uncommunicative that the 30 day paypal claim limit is put under threat with many deliveries.

[Muttley Snickers]

A couple of years ago I purchased from Ebay 4 x Omron optical rotary encoders at $60 each from a seller in Canada and down here from RS Components they were over $600 each, after 40 days I sent the seller notification that they hadn't arrived then 3 days went past and he didn't respond so I put a claim in and after 14 days Paypal refunded the $240, I came home from work one day about six weeks later and noticed that the gate latch was ajar, thought it may have just been the meter reader but later that night I did a motion search on the cameras covering the front gates and to my astonishment earlier that day an Australia Post van had pulled up out front and a dude with a parcel tried to open the gate and found it locked then without any hesitation reached over the 5 foot picket fence and dropped a shoe box sized cardboard box which it hit the concrete edge of the driveway and bounced into the dense front shrubbery.

I went out and found a box in the garden badly damaged, took it inside and opened it up to find the 4 x Omron encoders all brand new in bubble wrapped boxes and all in good order, if the gate latch had fallen back into position then I may not have ever known they were in the bushes, they must have done a few laps around the planet because it's only a 3 day journey from the moon and things arrive safely.

Thank you CCTV system, Thank you Canada Dude and Paypal, Fuck you Australia Post Dude you Dickhead.

PS; Paypal prove their blatant stupidity, incompetence and negligence in another trilogy later.
(The Hobbyking Horror, rated R for Rip-off)

Muttley

[Yago]

A couple of years ago I purchased of Ebay 4 X Omron
rotary encoders at $60 each from a seller in Canada.

Here from RS Components they were over $600 each.

After 40 day's I sent the seller notification that they
hadn't arrived, 3 day's went past and he didn't respond.

I put a claim in and after 14 day's Paypal refunded the $240.

6 weeks later I came home from work and noticed that the gate
latch was ajar, thought it may have just been the meter reader.

Later that nght I did a motion search on the camera's covering
the front gates, to my astonishment an Austraila Post van had
pulled up out front, the dude tried the gate and found it locked,
then without any hesitation reached over the 5 foot picket fence
and dropped a shoe box sized cardboard box, it hit the concrete
edge of the driveway and bounced into the dense front shrubbery.

I went out and found a box in the garden, badly damaged,
took it inside and opened it up to find 4 X Omron encoders,
bubble wrapped in brand new boxes, all in good order.

They must have done a few laps around the planet, it's only
 a 3 day journey from the moon and things arrive safely.

Thank you CCTV, Thank you Canada Dude and Paypal.

Fuck you Australia Post Dude.

PS; Paypal prove their stupidity, incompetence
and negligence  in another later chapter.

Muttley

I got one!
Order some flu gel from TME in Poland, and some solder sucker from 10 miles from my home in UK.
The flux had to be restocked from Germany and could not make the journey to me via air and had to go via road (carrier laws?).
Both sent on the same day, both arrived on the same day.

[Yago]

Well, this thread prompted me to phone royal mail.
Seem that with items sent from a foreign courier, RM have no obligation to provide tracking info.
This isn't clear on their website... leaving me thinking things are amiss.

Have to phone and endure the menus and scratchy music if you want accurate info from royal mail.
Fingers crossed, LCR is close, lord am I shIte at waiting for parcels!

[coppice]

in my locality, they started to hire workers from china to do our areas delivery ... and already i am starting to see problems in getting parcels on time ... i bet they undercut the salaries of the older experienced staffs forcing them to quit and now overworked these poor chaps from china ... but surprisingly ... every year, the group will announce a ton of operating profits ... bloody hell !

In China deliveries are generally very prompt, unless you live off their grid.

[Artlav]

There is a saying that if you send two kettlebells by russian mail, one will arrive broken, and the second will be lost.
Interesting that the other carriers have similar incidents as well.
?? "?? " ??. ?? ? 16 ? 12:53 ! ?? ?

In practice, i had packages and letters lost several times, and once got a couple of big LiFePo4 batteries with the plastic cracked all around.
Then again, i rarely order anything truly fragile.

[TheBay]

I get things quicker from China than I do from Royal mail 

[Yago]

I'm still flabbergasted that they have the tracking info, but choose not to give it to the customer.

UK feels like it is constructed from rust.

[Muttley Snickers]

After watching these horrific video's, I just had an idea.

In our industry we use a glass break simulator, it replicates the sound and frequency of breaking glass for sensor testing. These bastards need the occasional reminder that this stuff can and will be broken, In the loudest unstop-able manner. A cheap re- usable item, one in each parcel, let's get it started.

The EEV Shatter Box ( patent not bloody likely ), Another fabulous product from EEV Corporation Incorporated.

Muttley

PS: If you think that we can all make a million $ each then I will do a teardown on mine for replication and
enhancement.

[GreyWoolfe]

Bubble wrap is my friend and the company lets us buy as much as we think we need when we ship parts/equipment between us.  Alas, some of us still don't get it and don't use it.

[eurofox]

Bubble wrap is my friend and the company lets us buy as much as we think we need when we ship parts/equipment between us.  Alas, some of us still don't get it and don't use it.

I use it all the time but it is not enough in many cases when it is to heavy and the parcel is dropped.

[Artlav]

Ouch.
Speak of the devil.

This just arrived from China:


The boxes look like an elephant sat on them.
Fortunately, these only contained cheap plastic 3D glasses, and only one pair had any permanent damage.



But still...
That is a bit disturbing.

[Deamiter]

Negligence is unacceptable, and will get an employee fired if it can be traced back to them, but at the same time, I'm conflicted as I almost always select the cheapest shipping method. It's a minor miracle that I can have parts and equipment air shipped from China for just a few dollars, and while packages do sometimes get damaged or destroyed, I figure that's more a side effect of cheap, high-volume shipping than a true failure of the system.

Coppice is absolutely right that to ship fragile, heavy equipment, you need to add expensive packaging to go through the normal shipping channels. Your box WILL be dropped, probably a meter, and if you're not lucky, onto a corner, not a side. A 20kg piece of equipment can't just be wrapped in a layer of bubblewrap and a cheap cardboard box if you want it to survive cheap shipping.

The alternative to high end packaging is to pay extra for special handling by a courier, but that only makes sense for local shipping.

[Yago]

Not sure I like the sound of a shatter box!

Make a small cct, a mic, sounder and mcu and pressure/strain sensor.
If it receives a knock, it starts to chirp loudly in a distinct pattern.
If another hears the chirp of distress, it will join in etc.
After about 15 minutes they start to calm down and go silent, listening and feeling for those signs of distress/handlers.

Make then cheap, packaged individually and send in as large batches as can.
Send them back and forth between eevblog members.

If they are loud enough, handlers will soon not want to awake the hive!
Could send audio recorder along too for the sh!ts and giggles!

[Marco]

Stack floppy boxes a couple meters high and that's how they look, if you're lucky. At least use some decent quality cardboard boxes with all seams taped ...

[Bored@Work]

Maybe some kind of very small, lower cost logging accelerometer could be constructed.

You can buy them from several vendors.

The cheapest solution is not even electronic, but a kind of sticker that changes color if too much G force is applied.

We sometimes use them at work. I have been told that some carriers do not recognize the indicators as proof of mishandling, but that such a case could be "fixed" once the company lawyer got involved.

[Deamiter]

The accelerometers and tilt sensors sure help when you've paid for insurance, and I've seen enough cases of multi-million dollar pieces of equipment getting dropped that I'm not sure there's anything you CAN do to reduce accidents. That said, without insurance, it's REALLY hard to get carriers to cover anything.

[Muttley Snickers]

Newly released non-electrical model from the inventor's of The EEV Shatter Box, EEV Corporation Incorporated Pty Ltd.

Proudly Announce:

The EEV Shit Themselves ( patent not bloody likely )

A big black hairy spider, lifelike in all aspect's, re-usable just stick it to the top of your parcel and off she goes.

Your good's will be safe as house's, no courier bastard will ever look at or treat your delicate goods in the same manner that he once did. Satisfaction Guaranteed.

Muttley
 

[Yago]

Newly released non-electrical model from the inventor's of
The EEV Shatter Box, EEV Corporation Incorporated Pty Ltd.

Proudly Announce:

The EEV Shit Themselves ( patent not bloody likely )

A big black hairy spider, lifelike in all aspect's, re-useable,
just stick it to the top of your parcel and off she goes.

Your good's will be safe as house's, no courier bastard
will ever look at or treat your delicate goods in the same
manner that he once did. Satisfaction Guaranteed.

Muttley

I foresee a problem Mutley!
In Australia, for instance, spiders are so abundant, there are likely to be high numbers in employment within the postal service!

[eurofox]

Negligence is unacceptable, and will get an employee fired if it can be traced back to them, but at the same time, I'm conflicted as I almost always select the cheapest shipping method. It's a minor miracle that I can have parts and equipment air shipped from China for just a few dollars, and while packages do sometimes get damaged or destroyed, I figure that's more a side effect of cheap, high-volume shipping than a true failure of the system.

Coppice is absolutely right that to ship fragile, heavy equipment, you need to add expensive packaging to go through the normal shipping channels. Your box WILL be dropped, probably a meter, and if you're not lucky, onto a corner, not a side. A 20kg piece of equipment can't just be wrapped in a layer of bubblewrap and a cheap cardboard box if you want it to survive cheap shipping.

The alternative to high end packaging is to pay extra for special handling by a courier, but that only makes sense for local shipping.

I don't pack such an equipment in just bublewarp and a layer of cardboard.

It was packed like I never packet before and add a big sticker "fragile", during the last 10 years I shipped several heavy package and never got problems, is only the last years that it get very bad, I have it now more often with things I bought, got a nonometer this week with frame torn and housing destroyed and well packed that I bought.

It is the quality/service and behave of the carriers that need to change, I will in the future avoid to buy this ways fragile goods.

Now I know why Agilent got own service to pickup instruments to service & calibrate expensive instruments (is maybe typical over here).

[Yago]

Well they carded me and ran off.
I have to go and pick up the parcel I paid to be delivered.

Complained to Royal Mail about all these errors, all I got was sorry, sorry, sorry, no attempt to highlight and escalate problems through the organisation.
I asked if that was the official line "sorry, but we are a bit crap", the reply was not one of denial.

So travelling expense and Saturday queuing up

[bookaboo]

Watch out if you ever use Royal Mail for sending anything valueable, their insurance isn't straightforward at all.
I shipped some spare parts from our UK office to Brazil, of course they go totally awol somewhere around heathrow. They were worth about £850 and their insurance covered up to £750.00, so in theory its not all that big a deal.
Trying to get them to honour the terms of their insurance was a nightmare, in no particular order the stalling tactics they used:
- Outright ignoring communication (weeks at a time over every stage)
- Claiming the item was being returned to us
- Questioning what was in the parcel (the item was parts for a specialised charger made them ask 1000 questions about batteries)
- Claiming we breached their T&C by shipping batteries, even though we didn't!
- Requesting ridiculous amounts of paperwork, including invoices for the price we paid for parts (when I explain we built them they wanted a BOM!!)
- Waiting for a week after receiving paperwork then requesting it resent on headed paper.
Finally their masterstroke was to send a "take it or leave it" cheque for £500.00, at the time things were so busy in that office we just took it as even the admin people were sick dealing with them. I got the distinct feeling their customer representative was working on commission for every £ he saved them.

Really wish we had just set the solicitors on them from day 1.

[bookaboo]

Yeah normally we use TNT or DHL for worldwide stuff, DPD for EU. I've had problems recently with lead times from both TNT and DHL (before that with UPS too!), not sure if they have regular issues or we have been unlucky there.
DPD seem quite good, I'd estimate less than 0.1% of deliveries have any serious issues with them, they are not the fastest option but they meet their stated dates. We wont use RM for anything international unless it was a last resort.