| General > General Technical Chat |
| Cashless Australia |
| << < (22/37) > >> |
| cdev:
@Stray Electron. I am not Australian so I an sure I would leave something crucial out. Why dont you look at some of the dozens of Yountube videos on the Robodebt/centrelink debacle. --- Quote from: Stray Electron on March 12, 2021, 11:08:57 pm --- OK, would you care to explain to the rest of us what Robodebit is and how it's relevant? No, I didn't sit thru the whole 18 minutes of two talking heads chit chatting. --- End quote --- Use Youtube's search function. |
| Simon:
Well like with everything there are pro's and cons and it would need implementing very well or it would descend into chaos. I think a lot will start to hinge on mobile phones rather than cards as a mobile phone being a computer can do so much more like handle transactions without an internet connection because it knows what is in your account and syncs with the bank once it reconnects. Cash and electronic have costs, here in the UK there is growing concern with the amount of ATM's being taken out and banks disappearing from the highstreets so you can't walk in and take cash out at the counter. Now that we live in the panacea of "everything is free" we fail to see the actual costs. I would rather pay my bank a monthly fee rather than be charged by stealth, at the end of the day we must pay somehow. electronic transactions have fees to sellers, so sellers add these to their prices and so the customer is paying the transaction fees but are unaware of it. And this just applies to everything so every time you spend money on your card you are paying to have use that card, not the seller. Cash costs money to manage as well. The notes have to be printed and coins minted. The notes in particular have to be carried around the country from the mint to the banks to the ATM's and then back to the bank again and then the dealing with notes that need turning in for replacement. Business customers are usually charged to deposit cash now so like with electronic transactions they will have to add this cost to their prices. There is no way out and it's the cheapest and safest that wins out. The problems will be around the communications infrastructure that will have to be reliable to connect everywhere where money is to be spent and yes there is the problem of people adopting it which is unlikely for many. My father still works with cash and does not have a "smart" phone and I dread to think what a mess he will get himself into with one when he rings me up and reports that emails vanished from his computer whilst he was reading them but not touching anything..... Cards will certainly work for most of us and if the infrastructure is made more reliable less of a worry, ultimately if there is a total disaster your money may be worthless anyway and still inaccessible as cash unless you are going to walk around with all the cash you own on your person which is impractical. |
| tszaboo:
--- Quote from: blueskull on March 10, 2021, 05:19:33 am --- --- Quote from: NANDBlog on March 09, 2021, 08:11:59 am ---By the time you get to the store to buy some food, the tax office liberated the money from your account, because you owned them. --- End quote --- How can a tax office liberate your money without the court giving them a go, and how can a court give a forced execution of property go without leaving you enough for basic living? Read your laws, there should be something like this somewhere. If your law does not have this kind of bankruptcy protection, the tax office can technically go to your house with cops and rob you legally with a go from the court, too, regardless you use a card or not. --- End quote --- They send out thousands of traffic violation court verdicts per day. Together with fines. From the speeding cameras. If you appeal, they have to review your evidence. Thousands a day. For my last one, I got a canned "nope" as reply, I'm sure they haven't even read what I wrote. The Dutch government just resigned, because they accidentally bankrupted 20000 families due to some clerical errors. This kind of shit happens every time. |
| bd139:
--- Quote from: Simon on March 13, 2021, 07:40:45 am ---Well like with everything there are pro's and cons and it would need implementing very well or it would descend into chaos. I think a lot will start to hinge on mobile phones rather than cards as a mobile phone being a computer can do so much more like handle transactions without an internet connection because it knows what is in your account and syncs with the bank once it reconnects. Cash and electronic have costs, here in the UK there is growing concern with the amount of ATM's being taken out and banks disappearing from the highstreets so you can't walk in and take cash out at the counter. Now that we live in the panacea of "everything is free" we fail to see the actual costs. I would rather pay my bank a monthly fee rather than be charged by stealth, at the end of the day we must pay somehow. electronic transactions have fees to sellers, so sellers add these to their prices and so the customer is paying the transaction fees but are unaware of it. And this just applies to everything so every time you spend money on your card you are paying to have use that card, not the seller. Cash costs money to manage as well. The notes have to be printed and coins minted. The notes in particular have to be carried around the country from the mint to the banks to the ATM's and then back to the bank again and then the dealing with notes that need turning in for replacement. Business customers are usually charged to deposit cash now so like with electronic transactions they will have to add this cost to their prices. There is no way out and it's the cheapest and safest that wins out. The problems will be around the communications infrastructure that will have to be reliable to connect everywhere where money is to be spent and yes there is the problem of people adopting it which is unlikely for many. My father still works with cash and does not have a "smart" phone and I dread to think what a mess he will get himself into with one when he rings me up and reports that emails vanished from his computer whilst he was reading them but not touching anything..... Cards will certainly work for most of us and if the infrastructure is made more reliable less of a worry, ultimately if there is a total disaster your money may be worthless anyway and still inaccessible as cash unless you are going to walk around with all the cash you own on your person which is impractical. --- End quote --- Yeah I wouldn’t worry about this. Smartphone based payments just emulate actual real cards. They work entirely offline. The only issue is charged batteries. At this point I don’t carry a wallet any more. I have had zero problems for two years. I have a card as well but i rarely use it. I don’t even remember the last time I made a cash transaction. I think it was for an eBay sale on my door step. In fact my watch can make payments. It doesn’t have a cell modem in it. It generates a one time card number for the device which you can dispose of any time you wish. So not only is it fine offline but it’s more secure than your usual card which takes 5 days to get a replacement for it it’s compromised. The big problem as you mention is clearing and processing but I’ve actually seen the stuff that runs this and it’s not something you need to worry about. Literally it has the highest reliability investment in it there is because if it does go down everything goes to shit instantly and the people running it get reamed by the authorities. As for the usefulness of cash, it’s bits of paper and metal. The contract for validity is entirely informal. If at some point the world collapses it’s bits of paper and metal and that’s it. You have bigger problems to worry about than swapping those for things. |
| bd139:
--- Quote from: blueskull on March 13, 2021, 10:05:32 am --- --- Quote from: NANDBlog on March 13, 2021, 09:45:25 am ---They send out thousands of traffic violation court verdicts per day. Together with fines. From the speeding cameras. --- End quote --- What if you don't pay? Will you come to your bank or your house and rob your money? --- End quote --- In the UK they come to your house and take your stuff eventually. That’s a cashless transaction too! :-DD |
| Navigation |
| Message Index |
| Next page |
| Previous page |