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Cashless Australia
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duckduck:

--- Quote from: cdev on March 10, 2021, 04:02:27 am ---Once they are hooked into your bank account, you have no control over what they do. And often if they take out money that will trigger a cascade of new fees from the bank. People in Australia have been so beaten down by this "robo debt" system that some have committed suicide, Ive read, but the government denies that.

--- End quote ---

I have been there when I was younger and dumber and poorer. A debit to your checking account with a low balance takes it to a negative balance and then the bank issues an "overdraft" fee that is twice what the grocery store would charge for a bounced check (someone at the bank is driving a Ferrari because of that grand idea), and then the bank charges a "low balance" fee. Yes, a blizzard of fees for poor people that do not manage their money like a pro. It is very stressful and humiliating. Now you go get a payday loan to clean up the bank situation and buy food and gasoline until payday and you have stepped out of the frying pan and into the fire. It's enough to make a man want to change his name to "Jacques" and join the Foreign Legion.

EDIT:

As one of the posters above mentioned, the goal of "going cashless" is not about stopping crime (crime will always find a way), but about forcing everyone to put 100% of their money in the bank where negative interest rates can be applied. If the banks charged you a fee (instead of paying you interest) to keep your money in an account, you'd just buy a safe and a gun and keep all of your money in cash at home. With cashless, there is no option to keep your money out of the bank, other than by buying crypto-currency, gold, and/or huge stacks of obsolete HP test gear. I see that some members of this forum are way ahead of the pack here. ;)

EDIT EDIT:

Negative interest rates are a way to incentivize people to not save money, but rather to buy goods or invest it in the stock market. This helps the uber-wealthy. "If it doesn't make sense, someone is probably making money off of it."
cdev:
As mentioned earlier, banks want more for providing the service of offering accounts. Maybe it will be negative interest, maybe it will be profits from selling information about where you go or what you do derived from an RFID tag bearing card you must carry and use to do anything. (or a phone, which likely will have to be kept on) . Everything you do will involve micropayments, and micromanagement of your digital destiny. each one bearing a location and exact time attached to it. Just driving down a street will involve dozens of micropayments and opportunity for them to deny payment, and generate a fee. Maybe if the payment is denied your car will pull over at te side of the street, lights blinking, immobilizing you. Too many fees and your car is impounded. (unless you have diplomatic immunity, its my understanding) Anybody who lives in a city while owning a car is familiar with the difficulty of avoiding this trap, brought about bny having outstanding parking tickets . They alternate rules on parking by days so people have to keep moving their cars. Renting an off-street parking space may cost you as much as a small apartment would. This is really a great time to be a well connected transnational corporation.


--- Quote from: tpowell1830 on March 10, 2021, 08:36:26 pm ---

Yes, I agree with this, and how about those of us that simply do not want this for varying reasons. Not that I carry a lot of cash on me at any given time, but if I want to pay someone in cash, I can go get the cash out of the bank and pay if I want. To me, it is not about convenience, although it is convenient not to carry cash, but freedom to pay either way I choose.

Just my 2 cents...

--- End quote ---
AntiProtonBoy:

--- Quote from: Halcyon on March 10, 2021, 06:48:46 pm ---The Government don't care what you and I spend our money on, rather it's about stopping serious and major crime but cutting off funding.

--- End quote ---

One can say the same thing about mass surveillance of electronic communications: the government don't care what you and I say, rather it's about stopping serious crime. Sure, they don't care... until they do. It only takes a single despotic political decision to start scrutinise everything you spend on, the things you say and with whom. This leads to enacting legislations to enforce conditions in your daily routine or spending activity. Just remember, what you say and buy today might be declared illegal tomorrow. When there is a permanent record of your communications and spending habits, I can pretty much guarantee this information will be exploited by someone, and used as a leverage against you, or use it to profit somehow at your expense.

Halcyon:

--- Quote from: AntiProtonBoy on March 11, 2021, 01:35:50 am ---
--- Quote from: Halcyon on March 10, 2021, 06:48:46 pm ---The Government don't care what you and I spend our money on, rather it's about stopping serious and major crime but cutting off funding.

--- End quote ---

One can say the same thing about mass surveillance of electronic communications: the government don't care what you and I say, rather it's about stopping serious crime. Sure, they don't care... until they do. It only takes a single despotic political decision to start scrutinise everything you spend on, the things you say and with whom. This leads to enacting legislations to enforce conditions in your daily routine or spending activity. Just remember, what you say and buy today might be declared illegal tomorrow. When there is a permanent record of your communications and spending habits, I can pretty much guarantee this information will be exploited by someone, and used as a leverage against you, or use it to profit somehow at your expense.

--- End quote ---

I honestly think mentality like this is damaging. Everyday things that you and I buy, say or do won't be made illegal tomorrow. Nor is legislation enacted quickly or as far-reaching as you describe. It just doesn't happen. Hell, even our cloud data laws are out of date (and are currently in the process of being reviewed). I've seen the drafts and even then, it doesn't go far enough.

Surveillance, certainly in this country, will never impact 99.99% of residents.
AndreZheng:
 ;)I don't use cash for several years already. In China :-DD
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