Author Topic: Tech CEO gets 163 times his average worker's pay  (Read 37892 times)

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Offline VK3DRBTopic starter

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Re: Tech CEO gets 163 times his average worker's pay
« Reply #50 on: August 16, 2015, 01:18:39 am »
The root cause of obscene CEO pay is... wait for it... GREED. Does not matter which way you look at it.
 

Offline bills

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Re: Tech CEO gets 163 times his average worker's pay
« Reply #51 on: August 16, 2015, 02:33:35 am »
Once again.
 "You don't get paid for what you do you get paid for what you know and if you think you are not getting enough.
You don't use what you know"
Never argue with idiots. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.
 

Offline retrolefty

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Re: Tech CEO gets 163 times his average worker's pay
« Reply #52 on: August 16, 2015, 02:49:20 am »
The root cause of obscene CEO pay is... wait for it... GREED. Does not matter which way you look at it.

 Greed by whom? A 'free agent' CEO tries to negotiate the best package he can but he certainly can't dictate a specific offer, just like a EE seeking employment. An in place CEO may seek a raise but again the BOD has to approve.

 I just never was into salary envy, class warfare, or trying to decide what is 'fair' and 'not fair' for others, and who gets to decide which is which.

  I'm certainly glad I was born in the present era rather then any prior time that I've read about. I'm also glad I have as much personal freedom and choices as I do in the country I was born in. Life is too short to be angry about things one can't control. But then again one can choose to believe what they wish, except for maybe N. Korea.  ;)
 

Offline bills

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Re: Tech CEO gets 163 times his average worker's pay
« Reply #53 on: August 16, 2015, 03:17:29 am »
Once again.
 "You don't get paid for what you do you get paid for what you know and if you think you are not getting enough.
You don't use what you know"
This is my conservative view I know that in a lot of country's (liberal ,socialist you just don't get it) thats ok we have ways to change ours.
Never argue with idiots. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.
 

Offline Howardlong

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Re: Tech CEO gets 163 times his average worker's pay
« Reply #54 on: August 16, 2015, 09:30:15 am »
So for those who think it's OK for a CEO of a publicly listed company to be paid 100+ times the average salary of his/her underlings, where should it end? 1,000x? 10,000x? Slavery?

What has never been explained is how during a worldwide downturn when stock prices were largely stagnating, the board execs' pay was still increasing while everyone else took a cut in real terms. That is not market forces, that is the chief execs going on golfing booze ups with the fund managers, the very fund managers who are "investing" your money in mutual funds and pensions.
 

Offline zapta

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Re: Tech CEO gets 163 times his average worker's pay
« Reply #55 on: August 16, 2015, 01:46:36 pm »
Consider that there is little practical difference between the king who rules by lineage and the ultra rich who rule by simply buying politicians.

You are confusing freedom with corruption.

As I said, freedom is a strange concept for some people.
 

Offline Stonent

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Re: Tech CEO gets 163 times his average worker's pay
« Reply #56 on: August 16, 2015, 01:56:11 pm »
The root cause of obscene CEO pay is... wait for it... GREED. Does not matter which way you look at it.

Who cares? If he makes his shareholders happy, then why not?  A lot of people have retirement accounts and mutual funds that depend on companies making profits so they will be able to retire and not have to lose their house and other things.

There is not some finite amount of wealth. Just because he got paid a lot doesn't mean he stole it from another person.  That's just like stage 1 thinking there.
The larger the government, the smaller the citizen.
 

Offline TheElectricChicken

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Re: Tech CEO gets 163 times his average worker's pay
« Reply #57 on: August 16, 2015, 02:22:39 pm »
There is not some finite amount of wealth. Just because he got paid a lot doesn't mean he stole it from another person.

Each country has a limited amount of real estate, a finite number of vehicles, a certain number of jet aircraft, a specific weight in gold, a set of Van Gogh paintings and a stash of furbie dolls and so on, every item of 'wealth' has a finite amount and each country has a GDP which is also finite, so how is it possible to add finite amounts and make an infinite total ? It only seems infinite.

Inflation is when a few assholes continue to do 'quantitative easing' which is also known as counterfeiting, that is, producing money with nothing at all backing it. This means that you do a simple division of all the wealth in the country divide by all the money in the country. When people create their own money in a bankster bank, they de-value everyone else's money because there is more money chasing the same number of things, so actual prices rise.

As for a CEO, he is just taking a larger slice of the national wage pie than he should.
 

Offline Howardlong

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Re: Tech CEO gets 163 times his average worker's pay
« Reply #58 on: August 16, 2015, 02:28:24 pm »
The root cause of obscene CEO pay is... wait for it... GREED. Does not matter which way you look at it.

Who cares? If he makes his shareholders happy, then why not?  A lot of people have retirement accounts and mutual funds that depend on companies making profits so they will be able to retire and not have to lose their house and other things.

There is not some finite amount of wealth. Just because he got paid a lot doesn't mean he stole it from another person.  That's just like stage 1 thinking there.

The point is that there isn't accountability to those who invest in those funds. You only have to look at the dire performance of funds based on stock investments to see that, you might as well put the money under your matress. While the fund managers and boards are pissing away our money, you can be sure that there'll be a nice kickback of one form or another for the fund managers to incentivise them to "invest".
 

Offline cimmo

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Re: Tech CEO gets 163 times his average worker's pay
« Reply #59 on: August 16, 2015, 02:38:12 pm »
As I said, freedom is a strange concept for some people.
I find it very interesting when so many Americans talk about this 'freedom' thing so passionately and patriotically and yet one out of every four prisoners in the world is an American in an American prison (or jail).

You guys seem to have an interesting idea of what 'freedom' actually means.

"incarceration rate of the United States of America was the highest in the world, at 716 per 100,000 of the national population. While the United States represents about 4.4 percent of the world's population, it houses around 22 percent of the world's prisoners." - wiki


« Last Edit: August 16, 2015, 02:42:47 pm by cimmo »
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Offline zapta

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Re: Tech CEO gets 163 times his average worker's pay
« Reply #60 on: August 16, 2015, 03:04:47 pm »
As I said, freedom is a strange concept for some people.
I find it very interesting when so many Americans talk about this 'freedom' thing so passionately and patriotically and yet one out of every four prisoners in the world is an American in an American prison (or jail).

You guys seem to have an interesting idea of what 'freedom' actually means.

"incarceration rate of the United States of America was the highest in the world, at 716 per 100,000 of the national population. While the United States represents about 4.4 percent of the world's population, it houses around 22 percent of the world's prisoners." - wiki

I don't recall anybody claiming that the US is perfect. We have our share of busybodies and there are quiet a lot of improvements we need to do, freedom wise. For example in the area of victimless crimes

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Victimless_crime

Freedom is a universal human concept. Nothing 'American' about it. You can pursue it everywhere.
 

Online Marco

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Re: Tech CEO gets 163 times his average worker's pay
« Reply #61 on: August 16, 2015, 05:16:16 pm »
You aren't trying to pull an ATE, right?

http://www.logicallyfallacious.com/index.php/logical-fallacies/30-appeal-to-extremes

Maybe I'm just making a bad assumption ... generally when I hear an American say freedom and respecting freedoms I think they are talking about inalienable and untaxable property rights.

Can I respect your freedom while demanding progressive property taxes?
 

Offline zapta

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Re: Tech CEO gets 163 times his average worker's pay
« Reply #62 on: August 16, 2015, 05:26:35 pm »
You aren't trying to pull an ATE, right?

http://www.logicallyfallacious.com/index.php/logical-fallacies/30-appeal-to-extremes

Maybe I'm just making a bad assumption ... generally when I hear an American say freedom and respecting freedoms I think they are talking about inalienable and untaxable property rights.

Can I respect your freedom while demanding progressive property taxes?

Some taxes are necessary to finance the government protecting our freedom, which is it's core mission.
 

Online Marco

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Re: Tech CEO gets 163 times his average worker's pay
« Reply #63 on: August 17, 2015, 01:41:11 am »
That's an evasive answer.

Let me try it differently, should government try to promote positive freedoms at the cost of negative freedoms? (Bonus question : do you believe land ownership is a negative freedom?)
 

Offline zapta

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Re: Tech CEO gets 163 times his average worker's pay
« Reply #64 on: August 17, 2015, 02:13:52 am »
That's an evasive answer.

Let me try it differently, should government try to promote positive freedoms at the cost of negative freedoms? (Bonus question : do you believe land ownership is a negative freedom?)

What is negative freedom?
 

Online Marco

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Re: Tech CEO gets 163 times his average worker's pay
« Reply #65 on: August 17, 2015, 03:32:33 am »
First result from google :

"Negative liberty is freedom from interference by other people. Negative liberty is primarily concerned with freedom from external restraint and contrasts with positive liberty (the possession of the power and resources to fulfil one's own potential)."
 

Offline zapta

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Re: Tech CEO gets 163 times his average worker's pay
« Reply #66 on: August 17, 2015, 04:20:52 am »
That's an evasive answer.

Let me try it differently, should government try to promote positive freedoms at the cost of negative freedoms? (Bonus question : do you believe land ownership is a negative freedom?)

Trying to answer such a vague question is useless open to misinterpretation. If you have a concrete example I can give you my opinion where it falls on the continuum between extreme oppression and extreme freedom.
 

Offline ivaylo

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Re: Tech CEO gets 163 times his average worker's pay
« Reply #67 on: August 17, 2015, 07:35:50 am »
Too many social philosophers here... Think of it this way (an explanation of Sartre for enginees :) ). It is not a one dimensional continuum from absolute oppression to absolute freedom. It's more of a two dimensional thing with my oppression/freedom orthogonal to the oppression/freedom of others. Now, some extremes (even quadrants?) are impossible. Like my absolute freedom can not be achieved at the same time as the absolute freedom of everybody else, it's always a compromise. So, when I become a CEO of a publicly traded company...  :popcorn:
« Last Edit: August 17, 2015, 02:24:30 pm by ivaylo »
 

Offline Delta

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Re: Tech CEO gets 163 times his average worker's pay
« Reply #68 on: August 17, 2015, 12:13:23 pm »
I think it's a disgrace that such a small proportion of people have such a large proportion of the world's smugness and self righteousness...
 

Offline zapta

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Re: Tech CEO gets 163 times his average worker's pay
« Reply #69 on: August 17, 2015, 03:06:50 pm »
Trying to answer such a vague question is useless open to misinterpretation. If you have a concrete example I can give you my opinion where it falls on the continuum between extreme oppression and extreme freedom.

Marco asked specifically about land ownership. Why don't you start there.

"do you believe land ownership is a negative freedom?"  is not a concrete example.
 

Offline zapta

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Re: Tech CEO gets 163 times his average worker's pay
« Reply #70 on: August 17, 2015, 03:10:59 pm »
I think it's a disgrace that such a small proportion of people have such a large proportion of the world's smugness and self righteousness...

Do yo say that governments should impose caps on smugness and self righteousness?

I must say, it's very tempting.

;-)
 

Offline miguelvp

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Re: Tech CEO gets 163 times his average worker's pay
« Reply #71 on: August 17, 2015, 03:52:39 pm »
I think it's a disgrace that such a small proportion of people have such a large proportion of the world's smugness and self righteousness...

You are so right, an even at rank 44 the UK is still on the "have most" category:

https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/rankorder/2004rank.html

But you are right that within the country we, the US, don't do too good.

https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/rankorder/2172rank.html

But the reason is not the CEOs, it's way more complicated than that, and our poor are way richer than the poor of other countries. That said we do have really poor people living in the US as there are in all of the other countries specially non-nationals.

BTW I'm glad that you are on the camp to allow more immigration to the UK to help with the world inequality  :-+
Well I'm assuming you are pro-immigration based on your statement, but maybe I'm reading too much into what you said.
 

Online Zero999

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Re: Tech CEO gets 163 times his average worker's pay
« Reply #72 on: August 17, 2015, 05:23:08 pm »
Trying to answer such a vague question is useless open to misinterpretation. If you have a concrete example I can give you my opinion where it falls on the continuum between extreme oppression and extreme freedom.

Marco asked specifically about land ownership. Why don't you start there.

"do you believe land ownership is a negative freedom?"  is not a concrete example.

All right, take a place where land is limited and there's a shortage of housing, for example in many cities such as London and New York. The problem is rich people buy up most of the apartments, even though they have no intention of living in them or letting them at a reasonable rate. The end result is the average person can no longer afford a home so have to move out of the city.
 

Offline zapta

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Re: Tech CEO gets 163 times his average worker's pay
« Reply #73 on: August 17, 2015, 09:05:56 pm »
The end result is the average person can no longer afford a home so have to move out of the city.

Nothing wrong with that. Others don't have to provide us housing at our preferred locations.
 

Offline rx8pilot

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Re: Tech CEO gets 163 times his average worker's pay
« Reply #74 on: August 17, 2015, 09:45:21 pm »
Ok, take the 'average worker' engineer and put them in the CEO position.

I don't care if they can layout a 30 layer PCB and program a trillions gate FPGA blindfolded - they probably cannot deal with the vision, skills, stress, pressure, timing, of a successful CEO. There are very few people that have the range of skill to do it. Of course there are some that are salesmen that sell themselves as CEO material but generally don't last long, especially in a public company. The good ones have a unique set of skills that the average worker does not and they are responsible for $billions.

Yes, I would like to see a much bigger hammer for those that fail, cheat, or steal but that is different from a blanket comaplaint about how much CEO's make relative to the workers. I have been in the entertainment biz for decades. The on-set crew works ridiculously hard and most of the them are quite sharp. They do not make $20mil per movie like the A-list actors because they cant act. The actors literally pretend and 'make believe' for a living working fewer hours than anyone. But....they are the glue that binds the whole project together and create the demand that justifies the paycheck.

Factory400 - the worlds smallest factory. https://www.youtube.com/c/Factory400
 


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