General > General Technical Chat

Cheques being phased out in Australia by 2030

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tggzzz:

--- Quote from: coppice on October 09, 2023, 11:02:38 pm ---
--- Quote from: TimFox on October 09, 2023, 10:11:06 pm ---I find it amusing here when those ahead of me in the grocery checkout aisle take a much longer time to pay on-line than it takes me to pay cash.
(Of course, those who pay by check take even longer.)

--- End quote ---
What kind of antique validation systems do your stores use? There are places in the UK where a card takes 30s to validate a transaction, like its some 1980s dial up terminal. Those are used in places with infrequent transactions. However, in high traffic places, like supermarkets, where the transaction time really matters, it only takes a second or two, especially for tap and go transactions, where I don't even need to tap in a PIN.

--- End quote ---

Latency in increased where the terminal has to make a connection to something that will authorise the transaction. Connections via a cell phone make that particularly slow and annoyimg.

Latency is decreased where the merchant decides to "self authorise" a transaction without involving another part of the astoundingly complex (and expensive!) payments ecosystem. Supermarkets probably use a very local (=fast) algorithm like "PIN OK" and "previously used in this store without problem" therefore we'll assume it is OK this time".

So having good infrastructure isn't the source of the speed, rather avoiding using the infrastructure is the key speedup.

tggzzz:

--- Quote from: David_AVD on October 09, 2023, 11:14:56 pm ---
--- Quote from: tggzzz on October 09, 2023, 09:19:35 pm ---
--- Quote from: David_AVD on October 09, 2023, 09:12:31 pm ---My parents are in their mid - late eighties and use internet banking, tablets and smart phones, etc.

I don't know of anyone who has written or received a cheque in the last 5 years.

Tax refunds, etc all go straight back into your bank account.

Most of my customers use credit / debit card via the tap function, a few insert the card and a few use their phone / watch.

The phone / watch users are not always the young ones either. Some are in the 50 - 80 year old bracket.

--- End quote ---

And bugger the others; they can go to hell.

Most people can see. Bugger the blind - it is uneconomic to enable them to be part of society.

--- End quote ---


I have no idea which part of my reply you're referring to.

Are you saying the blind can't use credit cards but they could use cheques?

--- End quote ---

The attitude that because some old people use newer tech, those that can't are somehow at fault - and can therefore be discounted and can be ignored.

David_AVD:

--- Quote from: tggzzz on October 09, 2023, 11:27:47 pm ---
--- Quote from: David_AVD on October 09, 2023, 11:14:56 pm ---
--- Quote from: tggzzz on October 09, 2023, 09:19:35 pm ---And bugger the others; they can go to hell.

Most people can see. Bugger the blind - it is uneconomic to enable them to be part of society.

--- End quote ---

I have no idea which part of my reply you're referring to.

Are you saying the blind can't use credit cards but they could use cheques?

--- End quote ---

The attitude that because some old people use newer tech, those that can't are somehow at fault - and can therefore be discounted and can be ignored.

--- End quote ---

No, that's you projecting that story line. I was merely pointing out that age / generation is not a general barrier. You're certainly getting your exorcise,  jumping to conclusions. :)

Halcyon:

--- Quote from: tggzzz on October 09, 2023, 01:29:44 pm ---
--- Quote from: Halcyon on October 09, 2023, 05:02:28 am ---I can't think of a single use-case, other than consumer stubbornness, that can't be satisfied with current technologies, in a faster, cheaper and arguably more secure manner.

--- End quote ---

Sending a present.

Not wanting to send bank details by an insecure mechanism, e.g. email.

Old people that can't use the internet, for any/all of several reasons.

Having a paper trail accessible in 15 years time.

Small local charities can prefer to receive subscriptions/donations by cheque, since it is easier for the charity's treasurer.

No doubt there are others. You might not be able to think of them because they don't apply to you, but Martin Niemöller wrote a well-remembered poem that is relevant beyond its origin.

--- End quote ---

All of these sound less like "use cases" and more like excuses used by stubborn people who are resistant to change, as multiple, better solutions exist for each of these. I won't address all of them as I'm sure if you were faced with any one of these problems, you'd be able to find a suitable solution tomorrow.

The whole "paper trail" argument is moot. Cheques are no different to doing a bank transfer now. The withdrawal/deposit still occur in the digital realm and appear on the statement/transaction record. Cheques are just an "analog" disruption to what is already a digital solution. You're just adding a lengthy step in the middle; Going from digital to analog back to digital again.

In my experience, all the banks I've banked with allow customers to access up to 10 years' worth of transaction statements, instantly, online. If you need older, the bank can retrieve that for you. Most banks will also send out paper statements, if requested. Besides all that, you yourself can elect to keep all the paper trails you want by simply printing them yourself.

Evidence of money and proof of transactions extend far beyond a cheque stub these days, and have done for decades.

David_AVD:

--- Quote from: tggzzz on October 09, 2023, 11:22:59 pm ---So having good infrastructure isn't the source of the speed, rather avoiding using the infrastructure is the key speedup.

--- End quote ---

That's not been my experience as both a consumer or as a seller.  Our old terminal was dial-up, but that was many years ago and it took about 30 seconds to approve / decline.

It was replaced with a LAN version, then most recently a 4G version. Now most transactions take about 5 - 10 seconds I'd say without timing it. Me keying in the amount and the customer tapping their card takes as much time as the authorisation.

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