Author Topic: China just landed a probe on the far side of the moon!  (Read 4043 times)

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Offline apis

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Re: China just landed a probe on the far side of the moon!
« Reply #50 on: January 11, 2019, 11:47:51 pm »
The firs tone is mutual destruction and can only be used as a token force. The second is no more than an over powered conventional bomb.
But an opponent with nuclear weapons would still respond with fission-fusion bombs if they believed they were under attack, so you would end up with mutual destruction either way.
 

Online coppercone2

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Re: China just landed a probe on the far side of the moon!
« Reply #51 on: January 11, 2019, 11:55:05 pm »
if you can make a pure fusion bomb (how?) won't it be very clean apart from neutron radiation causing some isotopes? Does it even make neutrons?

That decreases the whole 'radioactive zombie mutant cancer" problem that makes nuclear weapons distasteful and makes it more like a high explosive weapon.

Even if it made some neutron radiation, it should be safe to use in the atmosphere as a air defense weapon or ground shock weapon.

But how do you trigger a fusion reaction without a nuclear energy source? do you surround it by a grid of fusion reactors that are laser pumped or something?
« Last Edit: January 11, 2019, 11:58:27 pm by coppercone2 »
 

Offline blueskull

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Re: China just landed a probe on the far side of the moon!
« Reply #52 on: January 12, 2019, 12:04:28 am »
But an opponent with nuclear weapons would still respond with fission-fusion bombs if they believed they were under attack, so you would end up with mutual destruction either way.

Since it doesn't need a fission trigger, much lower yield can be achieved.
If a nuke has only yield of a few tens to a few hundreds tons, it will be a hard decision to retaliate back with real nukes.
 

Offline apis

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Re: China just landed a probe on the far side of the moon!
« Reply #53 on: January 12, 2019, 12:06:53 am »
It's not only the radiation. They are not exactly precision weapons, they can wipe out entire cities which are inevitably full of civilians. So called weapons of mass destruction. Similar weapons that kill indiscriminately are also banned. Like chemical and biological weapons.

If they have both small yield and are very clean it might be considered a normal bomb, but in that case, you could also use a normal bomb for that, no?
 

Online coppercone2

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Re: China just landed a probe on the far side of the moon!
« Reply #54 on: January 12, 2019, 12:09:51 am »
But an opponent with nuclear weapons would still respond with fission-fusion bombs if they believed they were under attack, so you would end up with mutual destruction either way.

Since it doesn't need a fission trigger, much lower yield can be achieved.
If a nuke has only yield of a few tens to a few hundreds tons, it will be a hard decision to retaliate back with real nukes.

how does it work without a fission trigger? Where do you get the activation energy from?
 

Offline blueskull

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Re: China just landed a probe on the far side of the moon!
« Reply #55 on: January 12, 2019, 12:12:35 am »
If they have both small yield and are very clean it might be considered a normal bomb, but in that case, you could also use a normal bomb for that, no?

Good luck loading 100 tons of RDX on an aircraft.

It's a good number. It kills a large range, enough to cover an entire base, but it is also precise, not to wipe out an entire city.

how does it work without a fission trigger? Where do you get the activation energy from?

He3-H3 fusion requires much lower activation energy than Lithium-Tritium/Deuterium fusion.
Maybe laser and/or sound luminescence can trigger it.
 

Online coppercone2

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Re: China just landed a probe on the far side of the moon!
« Reply #56 on: January 12, 2019, 12:23:19 am »
i think you will get a hot spot that will change density and disrupt it unless its some how made very solid

i think you still want a sphere that has the entire surface fusion generating at the same time to ensure compression occurs and not some kind of blow out.

i think this is the basis of the tokamek or whatever. i don't think you will fit it in something smaller then a cruise ship.

i think a mechanical wave would need to be coincident on the entire surface. so sound is kind of out.

i don't know what 13.8MeV activation energy means in terms of stimulus though. A bomb would still need to go critical with internal energy transfer.
« Last Edit: January 12, 2019, 12:34:56 am by coppercone2 »
 

Online coppercone2

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Re: China just landed a probe on the far side of the moon!
« Reply #57 on: January 12, 2019, 12:45:03 am »
i do wonder though if you can make a giant laser that can trigger even a small fusion reaction could be used for something like safe lunar blasting for project development. if you shoot it into a bore hole from far away.

So you don't need drilling machines or chemical explosives which are unsafe.
 

Offline apis

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Re: China just landed a probe on the far side of the moon!
« Reply #58 on: January 12, 2019, 01:19:40 am »
Wouldn't that mean you had created a fusion power reactor?
Kind of like they are trying to do at the national ignition facility:
 

Online coppercone2

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Re: China just landed a probe on the far side of the moon!
« Reply #59 on: January 12, 2019, 01:42:45 am »
read the wikipedia article about pure fusion weapons

there are claims made. i think the weapon is easier because you dont need to save the heat etc. it would be nice for blasting on the moon you can move alot of material quickly.
 

Offline cdev

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Re: China just landed a probe on the far side of the moon!
« Reply #60 on: January 12, 2019, 05:11:12 am »
A guy in Brooklyn was building a polywell, and he had it working. DIY nuclear fusion. Some people in Sydney at ANU are working on one too.

----

re weapons, a few years ago (2010) North Korea claimed to have detonated a hydrogen device as part of a peaceful power program that claimed to harness the "energy of the sun" on the day considered to be Kim Il Sung's (which means sun) birthday. (May 12) Everybody dismissed it but two independent experts in two separate fields, seismology and nuclear isotope detection both reported incidents that could possibly have been referring to the same event at the DPRK's nuclear test site, at the same time.

So there is a small but real chance something actually happened.
« Last Edit: January 12, 2019, 05:29:22 am by cdev »
"What the large print giveth, the small print taketh away."
 

Offline blueskull

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Re: China just landed a probe on the far side of the moon!
« Reply #61 on: January 12, 2019, 05:16:29 am »
A guy in Brooklyn was building a polywell, and he had it working. DIY nuclear fusion. Some people in Sydney at ANU are working on one too.

There are a few "DIY" nuke-in-beaker type of things circulating on the internet.
Some say they are bluffing, some conspiracies say their lack of publication is from government intervention.
I do believe they did work, to certain degree. Maybe they did work at early stage of completion and didn't continue and started bluffing, or the conspiracy theory could be correct.
 

Offline cdev

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Re: China just landed a probe on the far side of the moon!
« Reply #62 on: January 12, 2019, 05:31:12 am »
Well the polywell did glow with that unearthly light in photos I saw..
"What the large print giveth, the small print taketh away."
 

Online coppercone2

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Re: China just landed a probe on the far side of the moon!
« Reply #63 on: January 12, 2019, 05:35:45 am »
if it even worked in a small scale it would be retarded not to blow it up in a big copper boiler as a cheap energy source, they wanted to do this with nukes for chirsts sake, the only big problem was radiation.

You use it to heat metal or melt salts or whatever to make steam or hot water. if it was in brooklyn he would have sold it to con-ed to heat apartments. thats the only thing someone would do with a nuclear generator in brooklyn, heating systems.

its BS. if a non radioactive cheap bomb worked it would be blown up in over sized water tanks with expansion baffles to heat water cheaply.

i will cut my underware up into little squares and eat it if some kind of useful fusion reactor came out of brooklyn
« Last Edit: January 12, 2019, 05:43:57 am by coppercone2 »
 

Offline blueskull

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Re: China just landed a probe on the far side of the moon!
« Reply #64 on: January 12, 2019, 05:42:00 am »
if it even worked in a small scale it would be retarded not to blow it up in a big copper boiler as a cheap energy source, they wanted to do this with nukes for chirsts sake, the only big problem was radiation.

You use it to heat metal or melt salts or whatever to make steam or hot water. if it was in brooklyn he would have sold it to con-ed to heat apartments.

its BS

1. The cost for blowing up fusion fuel with laser or acoustic energy is too high. Sacrificing the transducer or optics for one small controllable packet of energy is not economical.
2. The cost of the fuel is way too expensive. Tritium or even He3 is not readily available in quantity. The goal for commercial fusion generator is to be cheaper than uranium. If it doesn't run on deuterium, it's not worth pursuing.

But for military uses, H3 and He3 are okay.
 

Online coppercone2

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Re: China just landed a probe on the far side of the moon!
« Reply #65 on: January 12, 2019, 05:44:57 am »
how much would you save in nuclear regulation radiation release emergency response, litigation, regulations compliance, etc?

they would turn detroit into a optics factory and mass produce it. no one likes heavy radioactive isotopes. optics and grinding stuff is all freaking sand, its only expensive because we dont need it. economics of scale could make it disposable. you could hire a guy for 15$ an hour to watch over a machine grinding 10000 of them at a time in a factory that has 5000 of them.

zeiss is only expensive because no one wants it. world won't benefit from lens systems atm. unless its like boron nitride ceramics are basically a scam right now, all the tools used to make them suck in terms of output. if there was a use for them there would be a giant machine cranking out metrology grade glassware like rieces pieces.

someone would set up a row of like 50 different laps with different grits with ultrasonic cleaners and washing machines and laser measurements with robotic arms so your not grinding the same shit in the same goo for 3 days.

Grinding engineering is like in a barely alive state right now. You know with a surface grinder you can buy like 5 different wheels, buy 5 grinders and get a job done super quick. Instead you 'redress' the same grit wheel and mess with speeds and feeds so you can do the same job with 1 machine and 1 disk with some greybeard that figured out the tuning in his head. You can continuously sharpen a wheel and laser measure it while its running to speed things up, but none of it will make sense when you need to make a few military optics and some 4000$ cameras. No point in making cheap grinding wheels either.

Its not like they don't know how to make it super cheap, I don't think that there are even any real engineering problems, its just no demand. Same thing for laps and hones. If they had a tight spec you can make the machines to keep an aggressive precision machining speed going and get the stuff you need real fast.
« Last Edit: January 12, 2019, 06:04:38 am by coppercone2 »
 

Offline apis

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Re: China just landed a probe on the far side of the moon!
« Reply #66 on: January 12, 2019, 06:16:16 am »
Well the polywell did glow with that unearthly light in photos I saw..
Creating fusion isn't that hard, you can do it DIY it in a garage. The trick is to get more energy out than you put in. Last thing I heard about polywells is they needed to build bigger and bigger test reactors to get more data. DARPA funded it for a while but apparently didn't find it promising enough to continue.

Same as with tokamaks basically, although it's tokamaks that gets all the money, probably because they are best understood and are the most promising. But even if someone manages to create sustained fusion (with net positive output), there are lots of unsolved problems, like how do you build a tokamak that can survive heavy neutron bombardment long enough for it to be economical.
« Last Edit: January 12, 2019, 06:31:41 am by apis »
 

Online coppercone2

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Re: China just landed a probe on the far side of the moon!
« Reply #67 on: January 12, 2019, 07:01:33 am »
when it comes to fine finishing, did anyone here ever encounter 'sandpaper wizards' before?

some people can some how sort their used random grit sand paper in a way to do decent finishes all using various grades of the same worn paper. Then you get some kind of semi-used sand paper storage stack going.

same thing with used brillo pads.

all those tools that ware down end up being sorted by some kind of mastermind.. but you try to work in that kind of system and your scratching your head all pissed off (why not just spend 2$ on fucking different grits of sand paper instead of learning all that crazy shit)?\

thats what i mean with fine work. you get freaking masterminds figuring out how to save small sums of money at the expense of sanity/time. you end up with a nice finish but it takes 5 times longer, but some how you end up with a guy getting 600 grit finish using worn 60 grit.......

to me its like washing toilet paper. the worst part clueless people start doing it without thinking why? (like myself at first when it came to MOST angle grinder things, there is literally insane advice online about using grinders). then once in a while you get a snippet of truth and it feels like someone pulled a scab off your ear.

with trade stuff , you see some kind of hyper-greedy strategy being implemented and you think some professional might crucify you for doing the intermediate steps that cost a little bit..........

then your like dude, im not in a fucking russian prison cut the bullshit. you don't need to cook the french fries in ear wax and sebum in a old light bulb anymore.
« Last Edit: January 12, 2019, 07:12:02 am by coppercone2 »
 

Offline JPortici

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Re: China just landed a probe on the far side of the moon!
« Reply #68 on: January 15, 2019, 09:14:10 pm »
And now on the news... china has planted the first plant on the moon. Wow. My eyes are filled with wonder :)

https://youtu.be/qaM80BjvLuA
 

Offline sainbablo

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Re: China just landed a probe on the far side of the moon!
« Reply #69 on: January 16, 2019, 04:16:10 pm »
Can you please leave the politics off the forum.




It is  time for EEVblog  to create  a  separate page with suitable  heading to cater for posts  having  political over tones which
are  unavoidable and are relevant while  highlighting  impact of technological advances internationally.

sainbablo.
 

Offline cdev

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Re: China just landed a probe on the far side of the moon!
« Reply #70 on: January 17, 2019, 05:37:30 am »
i will cut my underware up into little squares and eat it if some kind of useful fusion reactor came out of brooklyn

https://gizmodo.com/5570817/no-sleep-til-fusion

https://scienceline.org/2010/06/amateur-fusioneer-hopes-to-build-polywell/

"After I achieved fusion, I bought a kit to learn about electronics -- I still don't know everything I should."



Here is his web page...

https://prometheusfusionperfection.com

Last I heard he was giving up.

 :--

But a group at a university in Sydney is working on a similar device...

 :-+
"What the large print giveth, the small print taketh away."
 

Offline blueskull

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Re: China just landed a probe on the far side of the moon!
« Reply #71 on: January 17, 2019, 05:39:30 am »
i will cut my underware up into little squares and eat it if some kind of useful fusion reactor came out of brooklyn

Your underwear probably cost $2.49 in Walmart.
They spent much more than that for their reactor.
 

Offline apis

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Re: China just landed a probe on the far side of the moon!
« Reply #72 on: January 17, 2019, 08:11:29 am »
Here is his web page...

https://prometheusfusionperfection.com

Last I heard he was giving up.

 :--
Wired is run by a bunch of fools. Yeah, he gave up (less than?) a year later after concluding it would cost him at lest $0.2 billion to continue. He didn't do anything except play around with some expensive toys (good for him), certainly not anything that hadn't already been done by Bussard.

A polywell is a very long shot at best but since the benefits would be enormous, just like the tokamak, it might be worth investigating. And the polywell has been investigated for over a decade now without much success.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polywell

Would make more sense to put all that money into improving atomic energy concepts that have already been proven, like fission reactors for example.
 


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