Author Topic: China's Electronic Waste Village  (Read 35354 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Online xrunner

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 4685
  • Country: us
  • hp>Agilent>Keysight>?
China's Electronic Waste Village
« on: March 08, 2015, 07:37:38 pm »
Time magazine article - series of pictures and descriptions -

Quote
http://content.time.com/time/photogallery/0,29307,1870162_1822148,00.html


I am a Test Equipment Addict (TEA) - by virtue of this forum signature, I have now faced my addiction
 

Offline zapta

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 6004
  • Country: us
Re: China's Electronic Waste Village
« Reply #1 on: March 08, 2015, 07:42:46 pm »
This is were the new parts on eBay come from :)
Drain the swamp.
 

Offline Kjelt

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 5792
  • Country: nl
Re: China's Electronic Waste Village
« Reply #2 on: March 08, 2015, 08:54:05 pm »
Terrible, let the US and Europe discard their own junk in a safe way.
 

Offline dannyf

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 8229
  • Country: 00
Re: China's Electronic Waste Village
« Reply #3 on: March 08, 2015, 09:29:48 pm »
This is precisely why I do NOT give my electronics to be "recycled" - they simply get sold to some folks in China and end up polluting their land and poisoning their people.

And if you ever wonder where those "fake" chips come from, look at those pictures.

They are also some videos of those villages that make a living off those electronic junks and it pains me to think that some "environmental friendly" people are making a fabulous living off killing those poor people by dumping our electronics waste on them.

The same for India.
================================
https://dannyelectronics.wordpress.com/
 

Offline cosmicray

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 236
  • Country: us
Re: China's Electronic Waste Village
« Reply #4 on: March 08, 2015, 10:11:37 pm »
Terrible, let the US and Europe discard their own junk in a safe way.
No doubt that is the correct and sane thing to do. Try to get the average consumer to pay for proper disposal is another matter.
it's only funny until someone gets hurt, then it's hilarious - R. Rabbit
 

Offline dannyf

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 8229
  • Country: 00
Re: China's Electronic Waste Village
« Reply #5 on: March 08, 2015, 10:49:36 pm »
Quote
Try to get the average consumer to pay for proper disposal is another matter.

That's where a well run government could have played an important role: a $20 surcharge for that rechargeable battery in your phone, a $50 disposal tax on that LCD monitor, a $120K surcharge on that nice Tesla of yours, ...

In-action / non-transaction should be just as taxable as action / transaction, :)
================================
https://dannyelectronics.wordpress.com/
 

Offline george graves

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 1259
  • Country: us
Re: China's Electronic Waste Village
« Reply #6 on: March 08, 2015, 10:51:53 pm »
No doubt that is the correct and sane thing to do. Try to get the average consumer to pay for proper disposal is another matter.

Maybe it should be built into the purchase price.  Like car tires.

Offline dannyf

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 8229
  • Country: 00
Re: China's Electronic Waste Village
« Reply #7 on: March 08, 2015, 10:55:58 pm »
Quote
Maybe it should be built into the purchase price.  Like car tires.

Absolutely. I would propose something like a 200% surcharge on corporate jet purchases, or a $100K per flight charge for each use of a corporate jet.

After all, rich guys like Al Gore should have no problem paying that surcharge. It is just criminally unfair that they get to pollute so much by flying corporate jet and like guys like me have to get by by flying commercial.

I call that "carbon inequality". I hope someone writes a book on that unjust.
================================
https://dannyelectronics.wordpress.com/
 

Online Zero999

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 14056
  • Country: gb
  • 0999
Re: China's Electronic Waste Village
« Reply #8 on: March 08, 2015, 11:03:52 pm »
This is precisely why I do NOT give my electronics to be "recycled" - they simply get sold to some folks in China and end up polluting their land and poisoning their people.
The same is true for manufacturing which is done in a place where no one cares about the environment.
 

Offline FrankenPC

  • Supporter
  • ****
  • Posts: 335
  • Country: us
Re: China's Electronic Waste Village
« Reply #9 on: March 08, 2015, 11:29:49 pm »
Quote
Try to get the average consumer to pay for proper disposal is another matter.

That's where a well run government could have played an important role: a $20 surcharge for that rechargeable battery in your phone, a $50 disposal tax on that LCD monitor, a $120K surcharge on that nice Tesla of yours, ...

In-action / non-transaction should be just as taxable as action / transaction, :)

Good idea.  Even if it was only something like 1$ on hard drives, that 1$ could be paid back to the recycler at end of life in addition to the raw material recycling income (aluminum for example).  With some simple analysis, we should be able to turn recycling into a valid, profitable industry and recycle at the same time.
Chinglish poetry: In the hot summer. In the car ran full steam. It tastes strange. For this worry? With this fan will bring you a cool summer. Suitable for all kinds of cars. Agricultural vehicles. Van. Tricycle.
 

Offline zapta

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 6004
  • Country: us
Re: China's Electronic Waste Village
« Reply #10 on: March 08, 2015, 11:32:03 pm »
The Chinese want to buy our surplus electronics and make some money out of it. Good for them.
Drain the swamp.
 

Offline free_electron

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 7373
  • Country: us
    • SiliconValleyGarage
Re: China's Electronic Waste Village
« Reply #11 on: March 09, 2015, 12:03:38 am »
Quote
Try to get the average consumer to pay for proper disposal is another matter.

That's where a well run government could have played an important role: a $20 surcharge for that rechargeable battery in your phone, a $50 disposal tax on that LCD monitor, a $120K surcharge on that nice Tesla of yours, ...

In-action / non-transaction should be just as taxable as action / transaction, :)
so according to you
15% surcharge for phone battery
25% surcharge on the screen
100% surcharge on the car

you need to make an appointment with a proctologist. cause you're talking out of your ass.
Professional Electron Wrangler.
Any comments, or points of view expressed, are my own and not endorsed , induced or compensated by my employer(s).
 

Offline mtdoc

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 3581
  • Country: us
Re: China's Electronic Waste Village
« Reply #12 on: March 09, 2015, 12:04:52 am »
Time magazine article - series of pictures and descriptions -
http://content.time.com/time/photogallery/0,29307,1870162_1822148,00.html

Nice link. Thanks. Note it is from an article from January 2009.

Over 6 years old but still - a glimpse of what will become more and more common in the future IMHO.   As mining, refining, and transporting raw materials becomes ever more expensive, salvage will become the main, and eventually only, source of some of the electronics parts we take for granted.
 

Online xrunner

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 4685
  • Country: us
  • hp>Agilent>Keysight>?
Re: China's Electronic Waste Village
« Reply #13 on: March 09, 2015, 12:10:19 am »
Over 6 years old but still - a glimpse of what will become more and more common in the future IMHO.   As mining, refining, and transporting raw materials becomes ever more expensive, salvage will become the main, and eventually only, source of some of the electronics parts we take for granted.

Anyone can Google more of these types of pics, and you can see the awful environmental damage and small children working and playing in the electronics waste. It's going to catch up to them and they are going to pay a very high price for what is happening. I truly don't have a solution.
I am a Test Equipment Addict (TEA) - by virtue of this forum signature, I have now faced my addiction
 

Online VK3DRB

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 1710
  • Country: au
Re: China's Electronic Waste Village
« Reply #14 on: March 09, 2015, 12:12:45 am »
This is precisely why I do NOT give my electronics to be "recycled" - they simply get sold to some folks in China and end up polluting their land and poisoning their people.

And if you ever wonder where those "fake" chips come from, look at those pictures.

They are also some videos of those villages that make a living off those electronic junks and it pains me to think that some "environmental friendly" people are making a fabulous living off killing those poor people by dumping our electronics waste on them.

The same for India.

Don't forget the other end of the chain... where we can happily exploit the poor and vulnerable. In the end, the consumer does not give a stuff about the poor, and don't give a damn if his own neighbour lost his job because the local manufacturer has closed down. Nothing personal, but in the end it is all about what is in it for us.

The toxic pollution in third world countries like China is a by product of greed. We should adopt a culture of recycling by repairing or refurbishing products rather than throwing rubbish out and buying new.
 

Offline mtdoc

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 3581
  • Country: us
Re: China's Electronic Waste Village
« Reply #15 on: March 09, 2015, 12:29:46 am »

The toxic pollution in third world countries like China is a by product of greed. We should adopt a culture of recycling by repairing or refurbishing products rather than throwing rubbish out and buying new.

I absolutely agree. But the problem is not only one of consumer mindset but an economic reality. Our economic system, as currently constructed, would (will) collapse if (when) we stop creating new stuff from virgin raw materials.
 

Offline zapta

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 6004
  • Country: us
Re: China's Electronic Waste Village
« Reply #16 on: March 09, 2015, 12:45:33 am »
When everyone knows up front what the true cost is then they can better evaluate value. You might get less disposable product like electric fans for $12 that get used one Summer and thrown out.

More utopia taxes. It's like a broken record.
Drain the swamp.
 

Offline cosmicray

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 236
  • Country: us
Re: China's Electronic Waste Village
« Reply #17 on: March 09, 2015, 12:48:30 am »

The toxic pollution in third world countries like China is a by product of greed. We should adopt a culture of recycling by repairing or refurbishing products rather than throwing rubbish out and buying new.

I absolutely agree. But the problem is not only one of consumer mindset but an economic reality. Our economic system, as currently constructed, would (will) collapse if (when) we stop creating new stuff from virgin raw materials.
Had a chat with the dock supervisor at the county solid waste unit last week. He told me that there is no market for glass bottles, barely a market for soft plastic containers (milk, water, soda, etc), no market for heavier plastic (TV shells, etc), a minimal market for cardboard, no market for waste consumer electronics. Basically the county has to pay someone to haul most of this stuff away.

There should be more concern here for the entire recycling process. Something that begins with product design, materials selection, etc. I think Apple is doing that, perhaps a few other companies. The majority of what is sold on Black Friday, doubtful.
it's only funny until someone gets hurt, then it's hilarious - R. Rabbit
 

Offline dannyf

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 8229
  • Country: 00
Re: China's Electronic Waste Village
« Reply #18 on: March 09, 2015, 01:02:06 am »
Quote
The toxic pollution in third world countries like China is a by product of greed.

Agreed. That's why it needs to be done by the government: if $600 /iPhone isn't sufficient to deter excessive consumption of iPhones, how about $6K apiece?

I bet you that if a TV cost $60K each, or a 2n2222 cost $60 each, it will truly make some reason behavior changes.

Not to mention all the taxes that the government could then waste, oh, I mean, invest into the welfare programs for the poor, jobs for the teachers unions, green subsidies for the rich, .....

I can almost see an environmentalist utopia.
================================
https://dannyelectronics.wordpress.com/
 

Offline zapta

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 6004
  • Country: us
Re: China's Electronic Waste Village
« Reply #19 on: March 09, 2015, 01:16:23 am »
Economics like engineering is all about striking a balance amongst the conflicting constraints.

This 'balance' is often based on a very subjective set of values, political agendas, exaggerated problems and cronyism and with little regards to personal liberty. Basically use the government power to take from citizen A to give to citizen B.
Drain the swamp.
 

Offline CatalinaWOW

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 3548
  • Country: us
Re: China's Electronic Waste Village
« Reply #20 on: March 09, 2015, 01:21:39 am »
I agree that we should force that village to make a living some other way.  They should have no say in how they make the trade between starvation and a potentially lower risk of cancer.  Those of us here in the first world know so much better than they what is good for them.

Now, how to implement.  Just make it illegal to ship over national borders.  Of course then it would have to be processed somewhere locally.  Perhaps taxes or other social pressure can reduce the quantities, but there will always be some waste.  And that means that someone would have to live next to the plant.  Most places I have been that is totally unacceptable, regardless of quantity or level of discharge.  Or what the material is.  I have run into some RFQ which demanded that the equipment does not include dangerous metals such as copper.

Clearly the solution is to require only wood and other vegetable matter be used in our homes and businesses.  Not even stone tools because the archeologists have demonstrated that stone tool waste takes millions of years to return to the environment.

 ;)
 

Online VK3DRB

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 1710
  • Country: au
Re: China's Electronic Waste Village
« Reply #21 on: March 09, 2015, 01:23:43 am »

The toxic pollution in third world countries like China is a by product of greed. We should adopt a culture of recycling by repairing or refurbishing products rather than throwing rubbish out and buying new.

I absolutely agree. But the problem is not only one of consumer mindset but an economic reality. Our economic system, as currently constructed, would (will) collapse if (when) we stop creating new stuff from virgin raw materials.

Oddly enough, I really enjoy fixing something that is clapped out rather than buying new.

Examples...

1. Fixed up a reject door that was going to be thrown out by the owner, repaired it and painted it so it looked like brand new. Satisfaction =10/10.
2. Rebuilt an old Holden HQ car ground up. Satisfaction = 8/10.
3. Renovated an ugly 1960's louvre pantry door with frosted windows and varnish. Satisfaction = 10/10.

I enjoy fixing old and broken stuff and it is better for the planet.

If you think Microsoft is altruistic, consider their attitude when a charity in Melbourne wanted to restore old computers for the poor. They wanted to get a special low cost license for Windows, but Microsoft told them they had to pay full price. The charity closed and all the junk would have gone to landfill or China. Another example, IBM crushed 10,000 butterfly laptops (each retailed for about $8,000 at the time) in the late 90's, rather than giving them to the poor.
« Last Edit: March 09, 2015, 01:35:27 am by VK3DRB »
 

Offline mtdoc

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 3581
  • Country: us
Re: China's Electronic Waste Village
« Reply #22 on: March 09, 2015, 01:38:11 am »
I enjoy fixing rather than buying new as well.

The politicos will twist the issue to fit their agenda, but at its heart its an apolitical issue.

Cost Externalizing

Tragedy of the Commons

No easy solutions, unfortunately. Human nature is short term self interest.

Oversimplified and idealistic but a nice summary nonetheless:

« Last Edit: March 09, 2015, 01:39:58 am by mtdoc »
 

Offline zapta

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 6004
  • Country: us
Re: China's Electronic Waste Village
« Reply #23 on: March 09, 2015, 03:51:17 am »
...Tragedy_of_the_commons

Tragedy indeed. They take my money and make it common.
Drain the swamp.
 

Offline pickle9000

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 2136
  • Country: ca
Re: China's Electronic Waste Village
« Reply #24 on: March 09, 2015, 04:13:47 am »
Funny how some things never change. I grew up poor, went to dump fixed and sold electronics to get on. Now in Canada you can't get into a dump period. It did for me lead to a life in electronics. Would I let my nephew (10 years old) go into a dump and do what I did, no.

Waste has always had value. First pickers are in little danger, last pickers is another story. Unfortunately people tearing down pcbs are in real danger (last pickers). Stop it in one place and I'd bet it gets farmed out to another country. Even if you do the right thing in your own country how do you stop it elsewhere?

It's a very complicated issue. 
 


Share me

Digg  Facebook  SlashDot  Delicious  Technorati  Twitter  Google  Yahoo
Smf