Author Topic: China's Electronic Waste Village  (Read 35400 times)

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Offline zapta

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Re: China's Electronic Waste Village
« Reply #125 on: March 14, 2015, 02:00:43 pm »
Perhaps the Chinese government should encourage parents to have more girls rather than boys?


Perhaps we should tax people that promote sexism?
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Offline zapta

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Re: China's Electronic Waste Village
« Reply #126 on: March 14, 2015, 02:21:49 pm »
-To all westerners-

I would argue that the democracy practiced in most western countries are actually a form of tyranny (of the majority). It is more about legalized robbery. Todays Greece would be a great example of that.

We got here to a tipping point where half of the adults do not pay income tax so they don't care about the others paying more.

And then we have the tyranny of the non elected bureaucracy which keeps growing and controls our lives with rules and regulations that include additional taxes ('fees') and fines.

The cause root is that our schools are controlled by monopolistic public union members that live of taxes money and naturally teach our kids collectivism rather than personal liberty.
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Online coppice

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Re: China's Electronic Waste Village
« Reply #127 on: March 14, 2015, 02:29:00 pm »
Perhaps the Chinese government should encourage parents to have more girls rather than boys?
For city people its quite the fashion now to want girls. I think country people still want boys.
 

Offline Mechanical Menace

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Re: China's Electronic Waste Village
« Reply #128 on: March 14, 2015, 08:25:37 pm »
-To all westerners-

I would argue that the democracy practiced in most western countries are actually a form of tyranny (of the majority). It is more about legalized robbery. Todays Greece would be a great example of that.

We got here to a tipping point where half of the adults do not pay income tax so they don't care about the others paying more.

Technically a lie. They may not pay federal income tax but half of American adults do not get away with not paying any income tax, they still have the state ones.

And tbh most of the BIG businesses avoid any tax and get massive welfare payments too. Though that is not an American peculiarity at all.

And neither is big companies getting subsidies via the benefits that have to go to their full time employees because they pay so little...
« Last Edit: March 14, 2015, 08:28:36 pm by Mechanical Menace »
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Offline zapta

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Re: China's Electronic Waste Village
« Reply #129 on: March 15, 2015, 03:14:04 am »
Technically a lie. They may not pay federal income tax but half of American adults do not get away with not paying any income tax, they still have the state ones.

And tbh most of the BIG businesses avoid any tax and get massive welfare payments too. Though that is not an American peculiarity at all.

And neither is big companies getting subsidies via the benefits that have to go to their full time employees because they pay so little...

Here the state income tax is a small faction of the federal income tax and is derived from the federal tax forms.

When people call for raising taxes it's typically on other people. That's pure greed.

And tbh most of the BIG businesses avoid any tax and get massive welfare payments too. Though that is not an American peculiarity at all.

If corporations get subsidized that's bad.

And neither is big companies getting subsidies via the benefits that have to go to their full time employees because they pay so little...

The government gives the benefits to the employees, not the employer. If I agreed with my employer on X dollars but I want 2X it's my problem, not his.
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Offline Mechanical Menace

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Re: China's Electronic Waste Village
« Reply #130 on: March 15, 2015, 10:11:30 am »
The government gives the benefits to the employees, not the employer. If I agreed with my employer on X dollars but I want 2X it's my problem, not his.

At the end of the day McDonald's, Walmart, etc couldn't get away with employing people at those rates if their employees didn't have access to those in work benefits. So that's a case of the taxpayer subsidising the employer by topping up the employees earnings. That also removes a large part of competition and free market forces. I can chose to shop at CostCo instead of Walmart because of how they treat their staff, but the sales taxes are still in part paying Walmart employees so reducing Walmarts costs...


Same with supporting your local family run grocers etc on Main Street. You buy from them you're subsidising Walmart, when you may have gone to them purely to keep money out of Walmart's hands.
« Last Edit: March 15, 2015, 10:36:39 am by Mechanical Menace »
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Offline dannyf

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Re: China's Electronic Waste Village
« Reply #131 on: March 15, 2015, 02:03:59 pm »
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You buy from them you're subsidising Walmart

Darn it. Now I have to starve myself, :)

So you either don't subsidize anyone, or subsidize them all (which is the same as not subsidizing anyone).

BTW, why is everyone so hating walmart?
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Offline zapta

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Re: China's Electronic Waste Village
« Reply #132 on: March 15, 2015, 02:21:40 pm »
BTW, why is everyone so hating walmart?
It's not everyone, go to the their stores, they are full of shoppers that appreciate the reasonable prices.
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Offline Mechanical Menace

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Re: China's Electronic Waste Village
« Reply #133 on: March 15, 2015, 02:24:52 pm »
So you either don't subsidize anyone, or subsidize them all (which is the same as not subsidizing anyone).

Nah, but some subsidies (including tax breaks) only hide problems, not fix them. Oil companies, bankers, retailers and the likes don't need convincing to carry on making ridiculous profits. Subsidies shouldn't go to those already on sure bets, they should go to those taking the risky steps towards the net big thing that will prop up the economy or that have a definite public benefit.

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BTW, why is everyone so hating walmart?

Just a convenient example. Big name everyone recognises and most know the dirty tricks they get up to. If say the average worker can afford to top up Walmart's employees wages as is currently the case then the Walton's and shareholders can well afford it. Instead they expect taxpayers to pick up the slack while at the same time avoiding their own personal taxes. So you're paying for them to get richer 10% faster than they would paying their fair share...


It's not everyone, go to the their stores, they are full of shoppers that appreciate the reasonable prices.

Add all those hidden costs to the sticker price would you, and would they be so much cheaper? Discount retailers here like Aldi manage to pay their employees much more than ASDA-Walmart do and still have lower prices than ASDA without the hidden cost of tax credits for their employees.

If you can't afford to pay your employees a living wage then you're not a viable business. If your employees are having to rely on the state to top up their earnings then that's big government keeping what should be a failed business afloat, by redistributing your wealth to the shareholders.

Where I’m going with this is if you start raising pay for low skill labour everything goes up everybodys dollar doesn’t go as far as it used to including the Walmart employees dollar.

You're already paying those higher wages for Walmart so they don't have to. Same effect on the overall economy.

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A 10 dollar walmart special will now be 30 dollars.

Is the CostCo one 3 times the price already?


Again just using Walmart as an example.
« Last Edit: March 15, 2015, 02:38:54 pm by Mechanical Menace »
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Offline dannyf

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Re: China's Electronic Waste Village
« Reply #134 on: March 15, 2015, 03:27:43 pm »
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Oil companies, bankers, retailers and the likes don't need convincing to carry on making ridiculous profits.

If you make a living working at those companies, or as an investor in those companies, you may come to appreciate the difficulties those guys have to endure to make those "ridiculous profits".
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Offline dannyf

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Re: China's Electronic Waste Village
« Reply #135 on: March 15, 2015, 03:55:21 pm »
To give you some sense how much "ridiculous profits" walmart makes: they sell about 500bn usd in revenue, and make 16bn usd in net income. that's about 3% in margin.

As a poor laborer, you make more in term of the margin than wmt does.
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Offline Mechanical Menace

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Re: China's Electronic Waste Village
« Reply #136 on: March 15, 2015, 04:39:16 pm »
To give you some sense how much "ridiculous profits" walmart makes: they sell about 500bn usd in revenue, and make 16bn usd in net income. that's about 3% in margin.

As a poor laborer, you make more in term of the margin than wmt does.

I very much doubt those figures, that will just be what they couldn't avoid declaring to the tax man. If they only make 16 billion a year worldwide how can they justify paying their CEO circa 200 million a year?

But lets assume that's true, they aren't a viable business so should be allowed to die. That's what the free market's about.

EDIT: Yeah I was right, that's the dividends paid out not their actual profits. And it only covers US earnings...
« Last Edit: March 15, 2015, 04:41:55 pm by Mechanical Menace »
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Offline zapta

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Re: China's Electronic Waste Village
« Reply #137 on: March 15, 2015, 04:49:08 pm »
But lets assume that's true, they aren't a viable business so should be allowed to die. That's what the free market's about.

Every business is should be allowed to die but not forced to die. So far they are a successful business.
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Offline dannyf

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Re: China's Electronic Waste Village
« Reply #138 on: March 15, 2015, 04:54:59 pm »
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I very much doubt those figures, that will just be what they couldn't avoid declaring to the tax man.

WMT is a public company and its filings are available for everyone to see. You are essentially arguing that they are cooking their books and the all-too-smart government that is your solution to everyone's problems is too stupid to catch it.

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If they only make 16 billion a year worldwide how can they justify paying their CEO circa 200 million a year?

Apples and banans.

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But lets assume that's true,

Don't assume that's true. Do your investigations and make sure that you understand them before attempting to make another unfunded allegations that you cannot substantiate.

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they aren't a viable business

They are a business that makes "ridiculous profits" yet they are not viable?

Can we at least ask that you make up your mind as to what you think WMT is?

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EDIT: Yeah I was right, that's the dividends paid out not their actual profits. And it only covers US earnings...

You can help restore your credibility greatly if you speak only on things that you know of.
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Offline zapta

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Re: China's Electronic Waste Village
« Reply #139 on: March 15, 2015, 04:55:23 pm »
If you can't afford to pay your employees a living wage then you're not a viable business. If your employees are having to rely on the state to top up their earnings then that's big government keeping what should be a failed business afloat, by redistributing your wealth to the shareholders.

Are we confusing between employers and parents?  ;-)

Employer's obligation is to pay the agreed upon salary. If the government chooses to give a citizen money it's between the government and the citizen, not his employer.
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Offline Mechanical Menace

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Re: China's Electronic Waste Village
« Reply #140 on: March 15, 2015, 04:56:18 pm »
But lets assume that's true, they aren't a viable business so should be allowed to die. That's what the free market's about.

Every business is should be allowed to die but not forced to die. So far they are a successful business.

I'm been presented the argument they've got to be propped up by the government (your government, my government, and probably every other country the operate in governments) because they aren't profitable enough to survive without. If that's the case they are on life support and the plug should be pulled. If it was it wouldn't surprise me if suddenly they can survive without the extraordinary intervention.

You can help restore your credibility greatly if you speak only on things that you know of.

I went by their 2014 data on their website. Dividends come from profits, they are not the entire stash and are not where most investors earn most of their money. They're a "reward" for not selling shares...

You could gain some credibility by explaining how you got the numbers wrong AND misunderstood the difference between profits and dividends.

I'm actually seriously surprised you're so anti capitalism and free market tbh.

Are we confusing between employers and parents?  ;-)

Employer's obligation is to pay the agreed upon salary. If the government chooses to give a citizen money it's between the government and the citizen, not his employer.

Why should the government, so in the long run every body who actually pays taxes, be parent to Walmart and every other company that relies on benefits/welfare to keep going? Simple fact of the matter is if we weren't paying their staff for them they would have to offer higher pay. The only people who should be paying Walmart's employees wages are Walmart and their customers, not every tax payer.
« Last Edit: March 15, 2015, 05:13:43 pm by Mechanical Menace »
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Offline dannyf

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Re: China's Electronic Waste Village
« Reply #141 on: March 15, 2015, 05:35:20 pm »
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as we go on to our future, money has become more important to certain interest groups than lives, lands, etc.

It has always been important and sometimes more important.

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and unfortunately, nobody is going to stop that due to ... economic reasons? :-DD

And that's why you have all those people agitating for "equality" or "fairness" - just don't try to force them to tell you what they meant by "equality" or "fairness" because you may not like it.

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... if land is really divided equally, all the rich men with their mansions will be up in arms !

You too.

Just ask yourself why should land be evenly divided among humans? Should we have equal amount of money in our bank accounts? ....

Should that equality be just among people in your family? people in your neighborhood? people in your province? people in your country or everyone in the world? The very fact that you are here would be a sure bet that you are far better off than someone dying of starvation in Africa, or Iraq, ...

Should we start equalizing you and your life with them?

All those "revolutionaries" care about isn't equality for the little guys like you. They care about taking what's not theirs and make it theirs. The little guys like you are nothing but pawns to facilitate that transfer of wealth.

If you are lucky, you may get some crumbs in the process but don't set up your expectation too high.
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