Author Topic: Chinese rocket booster soon to enter uncontrolled crash!  (Read 4329 times)

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Offline MTTopic starter

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Chinese rocket booster soon to enter uncontrolled crash!
« on: July 28, 2022, 02:07:22 am »

 

Offline targit

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Re: Chinese rocket booster soon to enter uncontrolled crash!
« Reply #1 on: July 28, 2022, 07:06:16 am »
"Experts say it wont pose a risk to people"  so, no storey at all then. China landed perfect first go on mars, they seem to know how this stuff works.
 

Offline bd139

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Re: Chinese rocket booster soon to enter uncontrolled crash!
« Reply #2 on: July 28, 2022, 07:45:29 am »
Yes and no. They have some history here.

 
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Offline tooki

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Re: Chinese rocket booster soon to enter uncontrolled crash!
« Reply #3 on: July 28, 2022, 08:50:28 am »
[video]
You know that “uncontrolled” atmospheric reentry is how many, many satellites and space vehicles are disposed of? Satellites are routinely de-orbited by nudging them out of orbit with a thruster so they’ll fall into the atmosphere and burn up.

This is as shocking and newsworthy as, for example, reporting that “farmers put FERMENTED COW FECES onto crops!”
 
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Online wraper

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Re: Chinese rocket booster soon to enter uncontrolled crash!
« Reply #4 on: July 28, 2022, 09:07:51 am »
"Experts say it wont pose a risk to people"  so, no storey at all then. China landed perfect first go on mars, they seem to know how this stuff works.
Like routinely landing rocket booster remains fuming with toxic UDMH onto their own villages

https://twitter.com/AJ_FI/status/1198173691378618368
 

Offline magic

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Re: Chinese rocket booster soon to enter uncontrolled crash!
« Reply #5 on: July 28, 2022, 09:11:02 am »
The "cow feces" thing is actually not that simple anymore.
It takes paperwork BS to spread BS on your crops properly :D
 

Online wraper

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Re: Chinese rocket booster soon to enter uncontrolled crash!
« Reply #6 on: July 28, 2022, 09:18:38 am »
[video]
You know that “uncontrolled” atmospheric reentry is how many, many satellites and space vehicles are disposed of? Satellites are routinely de-orbited by nudging them out of orbit with a thruster so they’ll fall into the atmosphere and burn up.

This is as shocking and newsworthy as, for example, reporting that “farmers put FERMENTED COW FECES onto crops!”
Satellites are nudged in a controlled way so their unburnt remains land somewhere at ocean. Chinese rocket remains often land on populated areas.
 
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Offline pcprogrammer

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Re: Chinese rocket booster soon to enter uncontrolled crash!
« Reply #7 on: July 28, 2022, 09:34:04 am »
[video]
You know that “uncontrolled” atmospheric reentry is how many, many satellites and space vehicles are disposed of? Satellites are routinely de-orbited by nudging them out of orbit with a thruster so they’ll fall into the atmosphere and burn up.

This is as shocking and newsworthy as, for example, reporting that “farmers put FERMENTED COW FECES onto crops!”

When it falls on your house or even on you, you will squeak differently |O Certainly when the latter is the case :palm:

https://www.space.com/space-junk-rocket-debris-reentry-risk
https://www.newscientist.com/article/2327922-10-per-cent-chance-falling-rockets-will-hit-someone-in-next-decade/

Offline tooki

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Re: Chinese rocket booster soon to enter uncontrolled crash!
« Reply #8 on: July 28, 2022, 09:45:12 am »
[video]
You know that “uncontrolled” atmospheric reentry is how many, many satellites and space vehicles are disposed of? Satellites are routinely de-orbited by nudging them out of orbit with a thruster so they’ll fall into the atmosphere and burn up.

This is as shocking and newsworthy as, for example, reporting that “farmers put FERMENTED COW FECES onto crops!”

When it falls on your house or even on you, you will squeak differently |O Certainly when the latter is the case :palm:

https://www.space.com/space-junk-rocket-debris-reentry-risk
https://www.newscientist.com/article/2327922-10-per-cent-chance-falling-rockets-will-hit-someone-in-next-decade/
I didn’t “squeak”. I just said it’s not noteworthy.
 

Online jogri

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Re: Chinese rocket booster soon to enter uncontrolled crash!
« Reply #9 on: July 28, 2022, 10:15:13 am »
Yes, it isn't exactly noteworthy if a normal satellite re-enters the atmosphere, but there are two main differences between those and the Long March 5 reentry:

- satellites pretty much always use thrusters for a controlled de-orbit burn, you can somewhat control where they're going to land and most of them are directed towards the space graveyard in the south pacific since that spot is a few thousand km away from everything. You absolutely can not control the Long March 5, so no one knows when and where it's going to land (and due to complicated aerodynamics you can't calculate it either)

- satellites and like 98% of everything else that re-enters the atmosphere is significanty lighter than a Long March 5. That thing is the only heavy lift vehicle that's single stage to orbit, meaning that the entire first stage comes crashing down from orbit and not just a small second stage motor.

This thing is a massive 21t hulk of metal that is going to crash somewhere and it's pretty much guaranteed that quite a few massive parts are not going to burn up and land somewhere. So yeah, i'd call it noteworthy.
 
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Offline bw2341

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Re: Chinese rocket booster soon to enter uncontrolled crash!
« Reply #10 on: July 28, 2022, 01:39:26 pm »
This is a single-stage version of the Long March 5 (designation: CZ-5B) use to launch modules for the Tiangong space station.

Since the massive stage achieves orbital velocity, it has an uncontrolled reentry. For a controlled reentry, the stage would need to have extra deorbit rocket motors and propellant.

Other rockets avoid this by having a multi-stage design. The heaviest first stage is suborbital so the danger zone is known in advance. When launching from coastal launch pads, you can plan for a safe reentry into remote open water.

Upper stages do reach orbit and they are a hazard. If there is no reserve propellant remaining, they stay in orbit, adding to the space debris problem. They may eventually reenter uncontrolled. The risk is much lower than a CZ-5B since they are much smaller.

If there is extra propellant available, it is used to restart the main engine for a controlled reentry into remote open water. Upper stages usually have restart capability since it is often needed for many payloads. No additional hardware is needed.
« Last Edit: July 28, 2022, 01:43:12 pm by bw2341 »
 

Offline madires

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Re: Chinese rocket booster soon to enter uncontrolled crash!
« Reply #11 on: July 28, 2022, 02:08:01 pm »
From 2020:
An out-of-control Chinese rocket may have dumped debris in Africa after falling from space (https://www.theverge.com/2020/5/13/21256484/china-rocket-debris-africa-uncontrolled-reentry-long-march-5b)
And from 2021:
Huge Chinese rocket booster falls to Earth over Arabian Peninsula (https://www.space.com/chinese-rocket-booster-long-march-5b-space-junk-crash)
 

Offline madires

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Re: Chinese rocket booster soon to enter uncontrolled crash!
« Reply #12 on: July 30, 2022, 06:54:53 pm »
Not Long March 5, but SpaceX Dragon (launched in 2020): Huge Piece of Space Rocket Falls From Sky and Lands on Sheep Farm (https://www.newsweek.com/huge-piece-space-rocket-falls-sky-lands-sheep-farm-1729111)
 

Offline SiliconWizard

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Re: Chinese rocket booster soon to enter uncontrolled crash!
« Reply #13 on: July 30, 2022, 07:01:37 pm »
I wonder how much atmospheric pollution all those objects falling back to earth create? :popcorn:
 

Online wraper

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Re: Chinese rocket booster soon to enter uncontrolled crash!
« Reply #14 on: July 30, 2022, 07:22:05 pm »
Not Long March 5, but SpaceX Dragon (launched in 2020): Huge Piece of Space Rocket Falls From Sky and Lands on Sheep Farm (https://www.newsweek.com/huge-piece-space-rocket-falls-sky-lands-sheep-farm-1729111)
Well, Dragon is not a rocket but spacecraft. Reading the news source there is no definite answer part of what it really is, just speculation. https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-07-29/space-junk-found-in-nsw-snowy-mountains-paddocks-/101277542 IMHO those do not look like pieces of Dragon trunk. BTW I would not touch space debris just like that because it may contain UDMH or some other nasty stuff.
« Last Edit: July 30, 2022, 07:26:37 pm by wraper »
 

Online wraper

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Re: Chinese rocket booster soon to enter uncontrolled crash!
« Reply #15 on: July 30, 2022, 07:29:55 pm »
I wonder how much atmospheric pollution all those objects falling back to earth create? :popcorn:
Barely any in a grand scheme of things.
 

Offline MTTopic starter

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Re: Chinese rocket booster soon to enter uncontrolled crash!
« Reply #16 on: July 30, 2022, 07:32:10 pm »
As of today it's claimed some parts fell in Indian ocean the where the rest fell is so far unknown but could apparently be seen over Malaysia.
 

Offline MTTopic starter

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Re: Chinese rocket booster soon to enter uncontrolled crash!
« Reply #17 on: July 30, 2022, 07:35:41 pm »
Chinese rocket crashes into village!

 
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Offline Stray Electron

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Re: Chinese rocket booster soon to enter uncontrolled crash!
« Reply #18 on: July 30, 2022, 08:36:09 pm »
I wonder how much atmospheric pollution all those objects falling back to earth create? :popcorn:

    Is that a trick question?

   "This thing is a massive 21t hulk of metal"

     Probably less than the total accumulation from meteorites.   OTOH 21t is only a fraction of the original mass of the rocket and much of that (fuel and more) gets burned up during the launch and the reentry of the first, second, (and third? and fourth?) stages.  Any spacecraft that uses retrorockets will add even more "pollution" to the "atmosphere".

    I have seen numerous complaints based on people speculating about effects on the ocean and the atmosphere of huge quantities of  the ammonium perchlorate used in the solid rocket boosters used on the space shuttle and other rockets.  I don't know if their concerns are valid or not. 
 

Offline madires

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Re: Chinese rocket booster soon to enter uncontrolled crash!
« Reply #19 on: July 31, 2022, 10:47:37 am »
Luckily fallen into the sea:
25-ton Chinese rocket debris crashes to Earth over Indian Ocean (https://www.space.com/chinese-long-march-5b-rocket-space-debris-crash)
 
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Offline BravoV

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Re: Chinese rocket booster soon to enter uncontrolled crash!
« Reply #20 on: August 01, 2022, 10:32:48 am »
Here you go, another Chinese space junks fallen to Australia that is not widely reported or at least not generated so much noise, wonder why ?  ::)







Wait .. its not Chinesium junks, imagine if it is  >:D .... no wonder not so much noise.  :-DD
« Last Edit: August 01, 2022, 10:35:52 am by BravoV »
 

Offline MTTopic starter

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Re: Chinese rocket booster soon to enter uncontrolled crash!
« Reply #21 on: August 01, 2022, 03:35:17 pm »
At least Russians crashes their space junk at their leased enclave!  :popcorn:

 

Offline pcprogrammer

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Re: Chinese rocket booster soon to enter uncontrolled crash!
« Reply #22 on: August 01, 2022, 07:12:09 pm »
It looks like rocket science is very difficult. After 50 years of tinkering one would think they had it all under control :-DD

Offline Stray Electron

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Re: Chinese rocket booster soon to enter uncontrolled crash!
« Reply #23 on: August 02, 2022, 03:23:52 am »
  The Chinese have been at it for about 2000 years!

   If they can't control the reentry of their space craft, it makes you wonder if their rather fantastic claims about their "hypersonic missiles" are worth the rice paper that they're printed on.
 

Offline magic

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Re: Chinese rocket booster soon to enter uncontrolled crash!
« Reply #24 on: August 02, 2022, 04:19:13 am »
If they can't control the reentry of their space craft, it makes you wonder if their rather fantastic claims about their "hypersonic missiles" are worth the rice paper that they're printed on.
Experience with Chinese products teaches that they can make functional stuff if they must, but they don't give a fuck and cut every imaginable corner ;)
 


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