Author Topic: Chinese solder wire brands?  (Read 7422 times)

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Offline Canis Dirus Leidy

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Re: Chinese solder wire brands?
« Reply #25 on: December 08, 2017, 03:18:52 pm »
Add five kopecks: review (not my) of Chinese "blue Kaina" soldier and comparsion with "shit cheap noname solder from Aliexpress" and "tape of unknown solder". In Russian, but photos are clear without translation.

P.S. Warning! Heavy animated GIFs.
 
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Offline David Hess

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Re: Chinese solder wire brands?
« Reply #26 on: December 09, 2017, 02:55:32 am »
I've yet to try 63/37 so I have no idea how it feels versus some (normal brand) 60/40. This is way out of topic, but is it really easier to use for beginners?

63/37 is eutectic, and theoretically should yield better solder joint performance. However, due to the lack of plastic phase, it may not be as easy to use as 60/40 in hand soldering.
Of course, easy or not is relative, not absolute. I solder with SAC305 easily, and it's considered harder to use than both 63/37 and 60/40.

I have used a lot of both and never noticed a practical difference.  Sn60Pb40 is slightly less expensive.  I prefer Sn63Pb37 but have never turned down NOS Sn60Pb40 if it was cheap.  Sn62Pb36Ag2 is stronger but costs significantly more and actually seems to be more difficult to use.
 

Offline kalel

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Re: Chinese solder wire brands?
« Reply #27 on: December 09, 2017, 04:00:48 am »
Add five kopecks: review (not my) of Chinese "blue Kaina" soldier and comparsion with "shit cheap noname solder from Aliexpress" and "tape of unknown solder". In Russian, but photos are clear without translation.

P.S. Warning! Heavy animated GIFs.

It seems the "KAINA" did pretty good in this test?
 

Offline Canis Dirus Leidy

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Re: Chinese solder wire brands?
« Reply #28 on: December 10, 2017, 07:44:26 pm »
It seems the "KAINA" did pretty good in this test?
Yes (at least this particular spool). Author mentioned that there is also "orange KAINA", but, according to opinions, it is worse.

P.S. Review of another cheap Chinese solder (JINHU). TL;DR: For just $1.66, you get whole 15 gram of unknown alloy wire (it began to melt only at 273 °C, despite 63/37 claims, plus dull solder joints).
 

Offline nanofrog

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Re: Chinese solder wire brands?
« Reply #29 on: December 10, 2017, 08:29:33 pm »
It seems the "KAINA" did pretty good in this test?
Yes (at least this particular spool). Author mentioned that there is also "orange KAINA", but, according to opinions, it is worse.

P.S. Review of another cheap Chinese solder (JINHU). TL;DR: For just $1.66, you get whole 15 gram of unknown alloy wire (it began to melt only at 273 °C, despite 63/37 claims, plus dull solder joints).
The alloys may be flipped @ 63% Pb + 37% Sn. Cheaper to make as lead is less expensive than tin, and would generate the indicated results (higher melting temp & dull joints). FWIW, this seems to have happened with 60/40 in another thread on Chinese solder brands.
 

Offline IanMacdonald

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Re: Chinese solder wire brands?
« Reply #30 on: December 11, 2017, 07:36:00 pm »
Not Chinese, but any opinions on Billiton solder? Seem to recall using it years ago but can't remember what it was like.
 

Offline kalel

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Re: Chinese solder wire brands?
« Reply #31 on: December 24, 2017, 05:31:47 pm »
This one seems to have decent comments on eBay (although few and not detailed):

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Tin-Le-Solder-Core-Flux-Soldering-Welding-Wire-Spool-Reel-0-8mm-63-37-N3/121930059734



Quote
Great deal!

Great deal, great price. Solder works well...no problems

Quote
Good quality

It is enough for the iron jobwith its quality.

Of course, I really doubt the quality just based on the price.
 

Offline Monkeh

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Re: Chinese solder wire brands?
« Reply #32 on: December 24, 2017, 05:33:57 pm »
I'm sure they're both legit and from people who know how solder is supposed to flow.
 
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Offline kalel

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Re: Chinese solder wire brands?
« Reply #33 on: December 24, 2017, 05:51:22 pm »
I'm sure they're both legit and from people who know how solder is supposed to flow.

With some of these you get many less grams than promised, so much that the price might in some cases equal or exceed some branded wire (at say 100g).
In those cases, it's not as cheap as it seems, while still not being good quality.
 

Online tooki

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Re: Chinese solder wire brands?
« Reply #34 on: December 24, 2017, 10:59:20 pm »
I've yet to try 63/37 so I have no idea how it feels versus some (normal brand) 60/40. This is way out of topic, but is it really easier to use for beginners?
It’s a subtle difference between them, really. But the point is that 63/37 is eutectic, meaning it’s an alloy with a single melting point, as opposed to a non-eutectic alloy whose melting (and thus resolidifying) happens through a temperature range. (63/37 melts at 183C, 60/40 melts at 183-188 or 183-190, depending on who you ask.) This range is called the “plastic phase”, meaning malleable. So it means that when cooling off, 60/40 solder has a split second where it’s sort of mushy and can be moved a bit before it hardens. This makes it easier for beginners. But because movement during cooling causes irregularities in the crystal structure of the cooled metal, it produces a weaker “disturbed joint”, which is actually undesirable. 63/37 hardens quicker, so the time window for producing a disturbed joint are lower.

I prefer 63/37 myself. But as I said, it’s a very subtle difference, so if one or the other is easier to procure, then that’s fine, and either will produce excellent results provided your technique is halfway decent.
 
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Offline Kilo Tango

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Re: Chinese solder wire brands?
« Reply #35 on: December 24, 2017, 11:16:52 pm »
60/40 has advantages when trying to "fillet" a joint. SMD components are tiny and once the solder sets they stay put, however some components take a mechanical load and need support. The plastic phase of 60/40 lets you fillet the joint so it is a lot mechanically stronger.

Here is a picture of the power connector from a relatively modern TV, a 29" Cello. As you can see the soldered joint has failed; the lead free solder is like water, and when it sets it is very thin and offers not a lot of mechanical support. I repaired it using 60/40 and got a nice filleted joint. Its been working for the last 2 years without problem. I sometimes turn down the iron temperature to make it more plastic to fill in loose joints.

Ken
 
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Online tooki

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Re: Chinese solder wire brands?
« Reply #36 on: December 24, 2017, 11:35:59 pm »
60/40 has advantages when trying to "fillet" a joint. SMD components are tiny and once the solder sets they stay put, however some components take a mechanical load and need support. The plastic phase of 60/40 lets you fillet the joint so it is a lot mechanically stronger.
I don’t mean to be rude, but this is literally nonsense. As in, it literally doesn’t even make sense.

What’s called the “fillet” in soldering is simply the shape of the meniscus caused by the surface tension of the molten solder. It applies equally to both leaded and lead-free solder — they produce identical fillets. If you’re getting radically different results when soldering with one vs the other, then something is radically wrong with your technique.

I don’t even know what you mean by “filleting” the joint — the fillet forms automatically from the correct application of solder — too little and you have a dinky, weak joint; too much and you have a convex glob instead of a nice concave fillet. (The component lead and PCB pad geometries of course are also defining factors in the shape and size of the fillet.)

Solder is NOT supposed to provide primary mechanical support. Of course, cheap stuff often relies on the strength of solder joints alone, but that’s bad design. (As in the picture you posted.) Especially with lead-free, which is very brittle, proper mechanical support is critical.

Here is a picture of the power connector from a relatively modern TV, a 29" Cello. As you can see the soldered joint has failed; the lead free solder is like water, and when it sets it is very thin and offers not a lot of mechanical support. I repaired it using 60/40 and got a nice filleted joint. Its been working for the last 2 years without problem.
Like water? What the heck are you talking about? As I said, the size of the joint depends on how much solder was applied.

Leaded solder is more flexible than lead-free, so it can handle flexing better without failing.

I sometimes turn down the iron temperature to make it more plastic to fill in loose joints.
Wait a sec — you mean you’re deliberately using a far-too-low temperature so you can glom on mushy-state half-melted solder to a joint?!?  :o
I can’t even wrap my head around how bad that is as a technique. Solder joint strength relies on the fully-molten solder actually slightly dissolving the base metal of the component leads and PCB pads, so they fuse into a strong joint.
 
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Offline David Hess

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Re: Chinese solder wire brands?
« Reply #37 on: December 25, 2017, 03:23:42 am »
I have never been able to discern a working difference between eutectic Sn63Pb37 and non-eutectic Sn60Pb40 when filleting a seam.  Sn60Pb40 is slightly less expensive and works practically as well but I still prefer Sn63Pb37.
 
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Offline GigaJoe

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Re: Chinese solder wire brands?
« Reply #38 on: August 02, 2018, 03:26:34 am »
got blue kaina, and red kaina -
blue melt below 200C,  red 230+ C (my solder +200C are min )
but but .... seems (again I not sure) a flux not so aggressive as 245 kester

but in overall if no alternatives blue kaina are good to go ....
 

Offline ali_asadzadeh

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Re: Chinese solder wire brands?
« Reply #39 on: April 17, 2019, 07:34:09 am »
anyone has experience with JF brand from china? I need BI57SN42AG1 ones, and they seem to have them, any experience with them?
You can order parts from www.ASiDesigner.com
we are a wire-based company
 

Offline rrinker

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Re: Chinese solder wire brands?
« Reply #40 on: April 18, 2019, 03:39:35 pm »
 Julian Ilett seems to be on a bit of a solder testing tangent lately, he's been ordering different Chinese brands and seeing how well they work (2 different ones so far).
 

Online tooki

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Re: Chinese solder wire brands?
« Reply #41 on: April 18, 2019, 05:36:59 pm »
With reputable-brand solder being so cheap, it escapes my why anyone would waste their time with el-cheapo Chinese solder...
 

Online OwO

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Re: Chinese solder wire brands?
« Reply #42 on: April 19, 2019, 01:47:19 am »
With reputable-brand solder being so cheap, it escapes my why anyone would waste their time with el-cheapo Chinese solder...
Which ones? I checked amazon and the only non-Chinese brands I see are Kester and MG chemicals, which are over 3 times as expensive per gram compared to what you can get decent Japanese branded solder for here. Same thing on "reputable distributors". It's beyond me why none of the distributors (or even amazon) sell any of the Japanese brands, but only the overpriced brands. Really the thread title should be changed to "how to obtain Japanese branded solder outside of China"...
つぁおにずぞんしばだい。
 

Online tooki

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Re: Chinese solder wire brands?
« Reply #43 on: April 19, 2019, 10:26:58 am »
Being unfamiliar with Japanese solder, I can't comment on it.

But my point is that name-brand solder isn't expensive in absolute terms. Even at $65-120 for a pound 454g or 500g spool of SAC305 (from Digi-Key, for example), the amount of solder used in a project is so small that the absolute cost is negligible. So I just don't see a reason to risk the cost of ruining a project (or even just of wasting time) by using Chinese solder of unknown quality. There's no question that what one is paying for in a premium-quality solder is for confidence. Kester, Multicore, and MG will not let you down.
 

Offline blueskull

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Re: Chinese solder wire brands?
« Reply #44 on: April 19, 2019, 07:32:56 pm »
Being unfamiliar with Japanese solder, I can't comment on it.

But my point is that name-brand solder isn't expensive in absolute terms. Even at $65-120 for a pound 454g or 500g spool of SAC305 (from Digi-Key, for example), the amount of solder used in a project is so small that the absolute cost is negligible. So I just don't see a reason to risk the cost of ruining a project (or even just of wasting time) by using Chinese solder of unknown quality. There's no question that what one is paying for in a premium-quality solder is for confidence. Kester, Multicore, and MG will not let you down.

FYI, Senju solders from Japan is just as good as MG, and is dirt cheap in China.

Personally I use MG since I'm in US, and getting Senju here is not easy. But if someone starts to sell those things to individuals for cheap, I will happily buy some.
 


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