General > General Technical Chat

Coin cell safety improvement a world first in Australia

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james_s:

--- Quote from: tooki on December 24, 2020, 07:51:12 pm ---The fuse in UK plugs isn’t “too much”, it’s absolutely essential because behind those sockets are  circuits rated (and fused) for 32A. So instead of requiring every appliance to have a cord as thick as a garden hose, the plug is fused to prevent normal-size appliance cords from catching on fire if the appliance should short out.

--- End quote ---

The cords aren't the size of a garden hose. It's perfectly legal to have an appliance plugged into a 20A, or even a 30A or larger circuit with a piddly little 18AWG cord, it is up to the appliance to be fused appropriately that it can't burn up the cord. A fused plug would be preferable but we don't typically have them here except on christmas lights. I don't recall ever having a cord burn up though, a short circuit on the end of a light duty cord will still pop a 20A breaker easily.

rsjsouza:

--- Quote from: james_s on December 24, 2020, 06:23:55 pm ---Either way it's pointless, it should be obvious to anyone here that a small child can operate a screwdriver easily as most of us in engineering probably got in trouble at least a few times as young kids for taking things apart. It took a number of years before I had perfected the art of putting them back together.

--- End quote ---
James, the problem here is access, not ability. Infants are surrounded by toys and not screwdrivers. Besides, it is neither obvious nor true without a lot of training. When my girls were introduced to the screwdrivers, they couldn't remove a single bit even after tens of times trying. We don't realize, but there is a large number of very fine adjustments to the process (downward pressure, speed, dexterity with the small fingers) that we learned and became second nature, but for them it is quite difficult without assistance. Sure, by the age of four they had most of details mastered but, by then, eating things at random is not a problem anymore.


--- Quote from: james_s on December 25, 2020, 07:03:11 am ---It's perfectly legal to have an appliance plugged into a 20A, or even a 30A or larger circuit with a piddly little 18AWG cord, it is up to the appliance to be fused appropriately that it can't burn up the cord.

--- End quote ---
You are correct, but I still look somewhat favourably to the fuse in the plug, despite the increase in size. This could prevent issues with frayed cords (a not uncommon occurrence) and it would be helpful to prevent a problem at the point of entry, not inside the appliance. However, there would need to have more than one value and not a standardized 13A rating (which I think the UK is set for, but correct me if I am wrong) to address the puny "lamp cord" 18AWG sizes. 

It is the old adage that "fuses/breakers protect the wiring, not the appliance".

Monkeh:

--- Quote from: james_s on December 25, 2020, 07:03:11 am ---It's perfectly legal to have an appliance plugged into a 20A, or even a 30A or larger circuit with a piddly little 18AWG cord, it is up to the appliance to be fused appropriately that it can't burn up the cord.
--- End quote ---

What you call 'perfectly legal' is not a legal matter nor necessarily compliant with the appropriate standards of other countries. This is called 'downstream fusing', which is generally considered appropriate when the cable is reasonably protected from mechanical damage.

magic:

--- Quote from: NANDBlog on December 24, 2020, 10:23:41 pm ---the most regulation there is, the better

that's my job

--- End quote ---
Honesty appreciated :P

I would have no problem with such ban limited to toys for small kids, but if it ever applies to anything I use regularly, it's going to be noncompliant alternatives from AliExpress for me.
I hope the sole end result will just be less stuff imported to Australia. Legally imported, at least.

Cubdriver:

--- Quote from: james_s on December 25, 2020, 06:59:15 am ---
--- Quote from: NANDBlog on December 24, 2020, 10:23:41 pm ---As a design engineer, the most regulation there is, the better. Even if it causes headaches sometimes.

--- End quote ---

Bullshit. There needs to be some regulation, but there is already way, way too much regulation in the world and much of it does nothing BUT cause headaches. Over-regulation ruins products that could be good, and takes perfectly good products that worked off the market and replaces them with crap. Want a specific example? Try using one of the idiotic CARB-compliant portable gas (petrol) cans that are mandated across the USA now. They are not allowed to have a vent (because vapor may escape) and they are required to be "child proof". The result is cans that blow up like a balloon if left in the sun then spray gasoline vapor everywhere when you manage to release the nozzle, an act which usually requires 3 hands. Then because there can't be a vent, as gas pours out the air has to go in the nozzle so they go GLUG gurgle gurgle GLUG gurgle GLUG and dump gas all over the place when trying to fill the small tanks on portable equipment. If you want to use one to put gas in a car forget it, the stupid nozzles won't fit properly in a lot of car gas fillers, and if you do manage to get it in they flow so slowly that your arm will fall off trying to hold the thing up. They are absolutely useless garbage that accomplish the exact opposite of everything they the new regulation was supposed to do. It's so bad that an array of companies sprouted up selling "water jugs" and nozzles for said jugs which are quite obviously gas cans but can't be sold as such. I HATE excessive safety regulations, I'd roll back a huge range of regulations given the chance. If you want to buy some overly regulated headache inducing piece of crap that is your right, but don't force it on me.

--- End quote ---

Amen to that!  Those damned gas can nozzles are truly terrible.  I've probably spilled more gasoline from cans fitted with those bloody things than I EVER did with conventional nozzles.  (And I still have and use several cans with conventional nozzles to this day.)  Politicians and bureaucrats can almost always be counted on to provide a solution that's as bad if not worse in some other way than the 'issue' they're trying to address.  This is a prime example - problem: escaping gas fumes bad, require a stupid nozzle design.  Result: no fumes leak when the can is sitting in storage (BTW, my cans with normal nozzles have caps that prevent this too, I just need to screw them back on after using the can), but raw gas is spilled nearly every time the can is used due to the lousy nozzle.  Net effect: more gas evaporates than otherwise would, and cans are aggravating to use.  Great job, morons!

-Pat

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