Author Topic: Components you wish existed  (Read 42260 times)

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Offline richfiles

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Re: Components you wish existed
« Reply #50 on: June 28, 2014, 03:57:10 am »
I wish memristors were on the market.

Small chips containing a couple memristors, CPLD/FPGA style chips with internal arrays of memristors that can be interconnected by PC software. I'd like to see real experimentation in that new technology... Not just some closed off research in an HP lab somewhere.
 

Offline Rigby

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Re: Components you wish existed
« Reply #51 on: June 28, 2014, 04:57:38 am »
I wish memristors were on the market.

Small chips containing a couple memristors, CPLD/FPGA style chips with internal arrays of memristors that can be interconnected by PC software. I'd like to see real experimentation in that new technology... Not just some closed off research in an HP lab somewhere.
Couple years.  HP is gearing up for manufacture, and will start selling memristor-based memory in 2015, I believe.  There is a long video of a keynote speech they did somewhere in the last month.  Can't remember the conference for the life of me.  Lemme dig up a link...

[edit] here it is: http://youtu.be/Gxn5ru7klUQ
« Last Edit: June 28, 2014, 05:04:33 am by Rigby »
 

Offline SeanB

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Re: Components you wish existed
« Reply #52 on: June 28, 2014, 04:59:03 am »
Here is a simpler but unimportant request: a Sziklai transistor arrangement in one cheap jellybean package.

IGBT transistors come pretty close to implementing that, albiet with a PNP and a high voltage N channel mosfet in the same package.
 

Offline daqq

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Re: Components you wish existed
« Reply #53 on: June 28, 2014, 05:02:08 am »
Quote
HV opamp in a single package, where HV is 1~2KV.

http://www.apexanalog.com/apex-products/pa89/

Beware - it's expensive.
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Offline Dajgoro

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Re: Components you wish existed
« Reply #54 on: June 28, 2014, 05:08:42 am »
Quote
HV opamp in a single package, where HV is 1~2KV.

http://www.apexanalog.com/apex-products/pa89/

Beware - it's expensive.
I should had added that it should not be made out of Unobtainium.
 

Offline T3sl4co1l

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Re: Components you wish existed
« Reply #55 on: June 28, 2014, 05:20:00 am »
Quote
HV opamp in a single package, where HV is 1~2KV.

http://www.apexanalog.com/apex-products/pa89/

Beware - it's expensive.
I should had added that it should not be made out of Unobtainium.

It is necessarily unobtainium, because it's a very unusual application and will always be high cost.  And high margin.  Physics, microactuators, that sort of thing.  Those few remaining applications, you roll your own and deal with it.

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Offline T3sl4co1l

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Re: Components you wish existed
« Reply #56 on: June 28, 2014, 05:26:42 am »
Power transistor's or IGBT's that have the Emitter on the mounting / heatsink and not the Collector for better and direct cooling without a 1000 V insulation needed.

May be it is not possible to build?

RF transistors are often made this way; the die is mounted on a ceramic insulator.  Some parts (diodes most often, I think) are available in isolated-tab TO-220 or 247 styles, but SOT227 modules are much more common.

Expect to pay double for a module of given ratings.

Real-world equivalent of SPICE E-primitive, ideal 4-terminal differential amplifier with infinite bandwidth, zero delay, user configurable gain without any external components and perfect isolation  :-/O

Regards,
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That would violate causality. ;D

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Offline richfiles

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Re: Components you wish existed
« Reply #57 on: June 28, 2014, 05:31:34 am »
I wish memristors were on the market.

Small chips containing a couple memristors, CPLD/FPGA style chips with internal arrays of memristors that can be interconnected by PC software. I'd like to see real experimentation in that new technology... Not just some closed off research in an HP lab somewhere.
Couple years.  HP is gearing up for manufacture, and will start selling memristor-based memory in 2015, I believe.  There is a long video of a keynote speech they did somewhere in the last month.  Can't remember the conference for the life of me.  Lemme dig up a link...

[edit] here it is: http://youtu.be/Gxn5ru7klUQ

That's part of the issue. Memory is a high value market, and thus they are pushing memristor based memory. I KNOW that innovation will take time and research, but right now, HP is effectively keeping a monopoly on ALL that research and development. Discrete memristors and reconfigurable memristor grid arrays are non existent, and I've heard nothing of intent from HP on such devices.

As far as memristor technology is concerned, I am EXCITED at the future prospects. I myself have played with Copper-Coper Sulfide-Aluminum Oxide-Aluminum junction memristors, and have even made a few on the lab bench. I obviously can't mimic the density of memristors on silicon, but it's intriguing to posit what this relatively new tech may do for us! I've been trying to find a means to manufacture point-contact style memristor components in a two PCB sandwich, supporting multiple devices brought out to a header or solder terminals.

The one thing that bothers me with memristor technology is the one difference that it STILL bears from all the other three fundamental components:

You can buy a discrete resistor.
You can buy a discrete capacitor.
You can buy an discrete inductor.

You can NOT buy a discrete memristor.

This is a critical failure for innovation. I get it... Modern technology relies HEAVILY on modern integration. You don't build a modern device with many discrete components. You avoid them, instead favoring integrating as many functions on as few integrated components as possible. This keeps cost and complexity down. You wouldn't build a TV or radio with discrete components the way you would have back in the 1980s and 70s and earlier. It's inefficient.

Why then can you still buy resistors and capacitors and inductors, and many other small discrete and small scale integrated components? Simple. Hobbyists, students, educators, and prototypers still use them for learning, educating, creating one off devices, and for fun!

The people that grow up and become skilled at the discrete level will carry that knowledge of HOW those parts work up the chain of industry, and eventually, the best of those will work on the integrated solutions. Education has to start with a foundation. NO ONE jumps into integrated circuit design with NO fundamentals in electronic technology!

The fact that there has been seemingly NO EFFORTS to release a small scale component that makes memristors available to the masses is a horrifyingly short sighted blunder! Tell me? How many textbooks teach memristor design principals? Not many, if any, yet... Even if they discuss them, how are students to TRULY learn with no examples to experiment with? HP seems content to develop the memristor technology internally, but in doing so, they are shooting the longterm advancement of memristors in the foot. Yes, they can make some highly profitable memory, but what other innovations will be missed with them holding this so close to their chest?

Did you know memristors can implement boolean logic elements? Did you know that memristors are useful in implementing some amazing neuron models? Who even knows what we will discover... but we NEED the option to experiment!

I would go so far as to argue, that if they wish to continue claiming the memristor to be a 4th fundamental circuit element, that they should be obligated to provide fundamental examples of the tech to educators and the public, to allow for the masses to actually learn the new tech, and to creat innovations that HP does not see themselves!

We need a discrete memristor, something in the same form factor as a small SMD resistor, or...
We need a chip style component that simply provides a few memristors to the leads.
We need a small crossbar latch in a chip that has a couple pins for programming.
And we need an FPGA like device that allows for massive memristor design.

So yeah, while I am CERTAINLY excited about the prospect of a new form of storage memory being made available, and driving capacity up and prices down... I'm more excited about what people COULD do with them that doesn't fit the mainstream view.

I think it's practically a sin for HP to be proclaiming this as the 4th fundamental circuit element, while neglecting to establish a stable foundation of usable discrete and reconfigurable integrated components for educators, experimenters, prototypers, and hobbyists, even as they push a highly integrated application already, all for the glory of the almighty dollar.
« Last Edit: June 28, 2014, 05:43:13 am by richfiles »
 

Offline magetoo

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Re: Components you wish existed
« Reply #58 on: June 28, 2014, 05:32:11 am »
MachXO2 comes in small QFP and QFN packages IIRC, but only the smaller (in logic) parts of course.
There's a 32QFN (with 4 bank power pins FFS!) , but the next up from that is 100QFP.

Huh, I could have sworn they had them in small QFPs, but I must have been thinking of something else.

Quote
Quote
I'd very much like to see some hobbyist-friendly FPGAs with open source tools. 
Why does OS matter for tools like this?
The only barrier to hobbyist FPGAs is whne you get to the bigger ones that aren't supported by the free tools, and these devices are typically way above the price and complexity of even ambitious hobbyist projects.

Well, it matters when you don't run Windows (or Linux).  It would just be convenient for me personally not having to mess around with a platform I don't otherwise use, and hopefully the community could at least manage some minor tweaks to the tools too.
 

Offline mikeselectricstuff

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Re: Components you wish existed
« Reply #59 on: June 28, 2014, 09:08:54 am »
The holy grail: A safe low cost button cell battery that held 1000Ah of capacity.

Battery technology is the biggest issue. Electric cars would be standard if battery technology could improve by a couple of orders of magnitude.
What would be nice are lithium coin cells in 2032 etc. sizes  with the same capacity as now, but with really low internal resistance so it can supply a couple of hundred mA. Peak current delivery is often more of a limiting factor than capacity in long-life wireless devices. Imagine if you could send an SMS from a 2032. 
« Last Edit: June 28, 2014, 09:11:36 am by mikeselectricstuff »
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Offline mikeselectricstuff

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Re: Components you wish existed
« Reply #60 on: June 28, 2014, 09:12:09 am »
Here's another : MicroSD cards in light colours so you can write on them
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Offline HighVoltage

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Re: Components you wish existed
« Reply #61 on: June 28, 2014, 09:34:34 am »
Power transistor's or IGBT's that have the Emitter on the mounting / heatsink and not the Collector for better and direct cooling without a 1000 V insulation needed.
May be it is not possible to build?

RF transistors are often made this way; the die is mounted on a ceramic insulator.  Some parts (diodes most often, I think) are available in isolated-tab TO-220 or 247 styles, but SOT227 modules are much more common.

Expect to pay double for a module of given ratings.

Regards,
Janne
I am not working with RF, so I was not aware of this. Thanks for the explanation, I will look in to that.
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Online tautech

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Re: Components you wish existed
« Reply #62 on: June 28, 2014, 10:08:20 am »
Here's another : MicroSD cards in light colours so you can write on them
Man, are you on a roll... keep them coming.  :-+
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Online Rasz

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Re: Components you wish existed
« Reply #63 on: June 28, 2014, 11:27:11 am »
Japanese hacker slave maid with big tits, to solder my crap ... oh wait, you meant electronic parts :(

A basic MCU similar to a AVR/PIC but which ran at an internal clock speed of 1+ghz.
16/32bit core would be better but i'd be totally happy with an 8bit core.
Price would be <$10 in qty of 10

The raw power of 1+ghz would be quite useful in cases where you would otherwise have to go FPGA or full on ARM CPU with associated parts (DDR/flash etc).

http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/XS1-L8A-128-QF124-I10/XS1-L8A-128-QF124-I10-ND/3906735
Its 2x 32bit, and package, QFN124, is a bit unwieldy, but otherwise what you wanted :)
Then you have 4 core ARMv7 at >1GHz at $5
http://www.cnx-software.com/2014/06/23/allwinner-a33-tablet-price/


HDMI input - > low latency h264/mpeg encoder --> dvb-t wrapper --> low power RF output.

half of that:
http://www.hides.com.tw/product_opencaster_eng.html
you dump mpeg_TS stream over USB, it takes care of making DVB-T out of that

A chip that takes DVI/HDMI or DisplayPort in at one end and outputs a HD stream (H.264 or similar) over Gigabit Ethernet (maybe 100Mbps actually used) at the other end with very low latency, plus a matching one to do the reverse. Price ideally under $50 for the set in small quantities. Bonus if there's an Android app for accessing the stream, albeit at reduced quality. More bonus if it also streams USB.

will mjpeg do? not a chip, but still ~$50
http://danman.eu/blog/reverse-engineering-lenkeng-hdmi-over-ip-extender/


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Offline Rigby

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Re: Components you wish existed
« Reply #64 on: June 28, 2014, 11:40:15 am »


I wish memristors were on the market.

Small chips containing a couple memristors, CPLD/FPGA style chips with internal arrays of memristors that can be interconnected by PC software. I'd like to see real experimentation in that new technology... Not just some closed off research in an HP lab somewhere.
Couple years.  HP is gearing up for manufacture, and will start selling memristor-based memory in 2015, I believe.  There is a long video of a keynote speech they did somewhere in the last month.  Can't remember the conference for the life of me.  Lemme dig up a link...

[edit] here it is: http://youtu.be/Gxn5ru7klUQ

That's part of the issue. Memory is a high value market, and thus they are pushing memristor based memory. I KNOW that innovation will take time and research, but right now, HP is effectively keeping a monopoly on ALL that research and development. Discrete memristors and reconfigurable memristor grid arrays are non existent, and I've heard nothing of intent from HP on such devices.

As far as memristor technology is concerned, I am EXCITED at the future prospects. I myself have played with Copper-Coper Sulfide-Aluminum Oxide-Aluminum junction memristors, and have even made a few on the lab bench. I obviously can't mimic the density of memristors on silicon, but it's intriguing to posit what this relatively new tech may do for us! I've been trying to find a means to manufacture point-contact style memristor components in a two PCB sandwich, supporting multiple devices brought out to a header or solder terminals.

The one thing that bothers me with memristor technology is the one difference that it STILL bears from all the other three fundamental components:

You can buy a discrete resistor.
You can buy a discrete capacitor.
You can buy an discrete inductor.

You can NOT buy a discrete memristor.

This is a critical failure for innovation. I get it... Modern technology relies HEAVILY on modern integration. You don't build a modern device with many discrete components. You avoid them, instead favoring integrating as many functions on as few integrated components as possible. This keeps cost and complexity down. You wouldn't build a TV or radio with discrete components the way you would have back in the 1980s and 70s and earlier. It's inefficient.

Why then can you still buy resistors and capacitors and inductors, and many other small discrete and small scale integrated components? Simple. Hobbyists, students, educators, and prototypers still use them for learning, educating, creating one off devices, and for fun!

The people that grow up and become skilled at the discrete level will carry that knowledge of HOW those parts work up the chain of industry, and eventually, the best of those will work on the integrated solutions. Education has to start with a foundation. NO ONE jumps into integrated circuit design with NO fundamentals in electronic technology!

The fact that there has been seemingly NO EFFORTS to release a small scale component that makes memristors available to the masses is a horrifyingly short sighted blunder! Tell me? How many textbooks teach memristor design principals? Not many, if any, yet... Even if they discuss them, how are students to TRULY learn with no examples to experiment with? HP seems content to develop the memristor technology internally, but in doing so, they are shooting the longterm advancement of memristors in the foot. Yes, they can make some highly profitable memory, but what other innovations will be missed with them holding this so close to their chest?

Did you know memristors can implement boolean logic elements? Did you know that memristors are useful in implementing some amazing neuron models? Who even knows what we will discover... but we NEED the option to experiment!

I would go so far as to argue, that if they wish to continue claiming the memristor to be a 4th fundamental circuit element, that they should be obligated to provide fundamental examples of the tech to educators and the public, to allow for the masses to actually learn the new tech, and to creat innovations that HP does not see themselves!

We need a discrete memristor, something in the same form factor as a small SMD resistor, or...
We need a chip style component that simply provides a few memristors to the leads.
We need a small crossbar latch in a chip that has a couple pins for programming.
And we need an FPGA like device that allows for massive memristor design.

So yeah, while I am CERTAINLY excited about the prospect of a new form of storage memory being made available, and driving capacity up and prices down... I'm more excited about what people COULD do with them that doesn't fit the mainstream view.

I think it's practically a sin for HP to be proclaiming this as the 4th fundamental circuit element, while neglecting to establish a stable foundation of usable discrete and reconfigurable integrated components for educators, experimenters, prototypers, and hobbyists, even as they push a highly integrated application already, all for the glory of the almighty dollar.

Well, memristors were JUST discovered in 2008... I agree with the sentiment of your post, and I think it is a bit early to call HP out when they still aren't selling memristors themselves.
 

Offline David Hess

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Re: Components you wish existed
« Reply #65 on: June 28, 2014, 12:27:57 pm »
More cool stuff in 40 pin pdip. I'm talking Arm, cpld/fpga, you name it.

I really liked PLCC (plastic leaded chip carrier) packages because you could both solder them or use through-hole sockets and probing was easy.
 

Online amyk

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Re: Components you wish existed
« Reply #66 on: June 28, 2014, 12:38:30 pm »
The holy grail: A safe low cost button cell battery that held 1000Ah of capacity.

Battery technology is the biggest issue. Electric cars would be standard if battery technology could improve by a couple of orders of magnitude.
What would be nice are lithium coin cells in 2032 etc. sizes  with the same capacity as now, but with really low internal resistance so it can supply a couple of hundred mA. Peak current delivery is often more of a limiting factor than capacity in long-life wireless devices. Imagine if you could send an SMS from a 2032.
By 2032, this might be possible.
 

Offline peter.mitchell

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Re: Components you wish existed
« Reply #67 on: June 28, 2014, 01:17:33 pm »
Here's another : MicroSD cards in light colours so you can write on them

In the same vein, microsd cards with a hole for a lanyard or so you can get some leverage on them to remove them (some go in real real tight, i have a bit of success with very very carefully shaped bits of kapton tape either side)
 

Offline David Hess

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Re: Components you wish existed
« Reply #68 on: June 28, 2014, 01:29:02 pm »
both undedicated and dedicated monolithic transistor arrays.  I miss the LM389.

At least you can still get matched pairs cheaply. DMMT3904W, DMMT3906W, PMP4201/PMP5201, etc.

LM389 looks awesome though.

The LM389 was a way to get 3 monolithic matched transistors inexpensively although the amplifier came in handy as well.  You could use it for instance to make temperature compensated log and antilog converters.

Matched pairs are better than nothing but not as good as monolithic parts and the other problem is lack of diversity in type; 2N3904 and 2N3906 clones are not suitable for every application.
 

Offline sync

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Re: Components you wish existed
« Reply #69 on: June 28, 2014, 01:45:03 pm »
The LM389 was a way to get 3 monolithic matched transistors inexpensively although the amplifier came in handy as well.  You could use it for instance to make temperature compensated log and antilog converters.
The transistors of a LM3046 array seems to be better matched and it's still available. Plus you can use the additional transistors for a heater circuit which stabilize the die temperature. I done this for antilog converters with good results.
 

Offline abaxas

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Re: Components you wish existed
« Reply #70 on: June 28, 2014, 03:01:09 pm »
There should be a device that automatically nukes a major US city every-time they try and standardize something using imperial measurements.



 

Offline richfiles

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Re: Components you wish existed
« Reply #71 on: June 28, 2014, 03:13:10 pm »


I wish memristors were on the market.

Small chips containing a couple memristors, CPLD/FPGA style chips with internal arrays of memristors that can be interconnected by PC software. I'd like to see real experimentation in that new technology... Not just some closed off research in an HP lab somewhere.

...

That's part of the issue. Memory is a high value market, and thus they are pushing memristor based memory. I KNOW that innovation will take time and research, but right now, HP is effectively keeping a monopoly on ALL that research and development. Discrete memristors and reconfigurable memristor grid arrays are non existent, and I've heard nothing of intent from HP on such devices.

...

The one thing that bothers me with memristor technology is the one difference that it STILL bears from all the other three fundamental components:

You can buy a discrete resistor.
You can buy a discrete capacitor.
You can buy an discrete inductor.

You can NOT buy a discrete memristor.

...

I would go so far as to argue, that if they wish to continue claiming the memristor to be a 4th fundamental circuit element, that they should be obligated to provide fundamental examples of the tech to educators and the public, to allow for the masses to actually learn the new tech, and to creat innovations that HP does not see themselves!

We need a discrete memristor, something in the same form factor as a small SMD resistor, or...
We need a chip style component that simply provides a few memristors to the leads.
We need a small crossbar latch in a chip that has a couple pins for programming.
And we need an FPGA like device that allows for massive memristor design.

...

I think it's practically a sin for HP to be proclaiming this as the 4th fundamental circuit element, while neglecting to establish a stable foundation of usable discrete and reconfigurable integrated components for educators, experimenters, prototypers, and hobbyists, even as they push a highly integrated application already, all for the glory of the almighty dollar.

Well, memristors were JUST discovered in 2008... I agree with the sentiment of your post, and I think it is a bit early to call HP out when they still aren't selling memristors themselves.

The point, is what HP is doing is pushing a highly integrated specialized product (memristor memory) as their very first released product, while ignoring the public's needs in regards to the fundamental steps they took to get there.

let me provide a hypothetical equivalency. It would be the equivalent of, if how back when the transistor was invented decades ago, if companies had just started releasing transistor radios, with germanium dies bonded to the PC boards, along with the point contacts, with the PC boards being fully potted, and the companies not selling individual transistors! You can't access the transistor, you can't salvage the transistor without destroying it, you can't use the transistor, you can't buy the transistor. All you'd have been able to get was an end application!

The idea seems absurd, but that is what HP proposes to do with memristor technology. They propose a highly specialized, highly integrated memory product, while providing no means to access the underlying fundamental technology... All while they tout memristors as a 4th fundamental circuit element. HP went through Steps A-E to develop that memory chip... But they only intend to release step F to the market. They are not releasing any parts related to the steps on the way to getting there! Fail :palm:

Imagine a world where all instances of one of the following components: resistors, capacitors, or inductors were just outright MISSING! And the only way to get them, was inside specialized chips? How the hell do you innovate? Create? Invent? Learn! The thought is absurd, yet here we have HP doing just that to fundamental electronic element number 4!
 

Offline Rigby

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Re: Components you wish existed
« Reply #72 on: June 28, 2014, 03:24:36 pm »
Again, I see your point, but they're so new not even HP has any in-hand, yet, and you're complaining about a strategy that they've not announced, unless I've missed something.

Edit: besides, they invested all the time and money into the discovery and realization of the technology, shouldn't they get first crack at the market?  I think they should.

Everyone is free to evaluate memristors in software, just like everyone is free to do whatever the hell they want in software.  If you, or anyone, has the desire to fiddle with memristors, add them to a logic simulation program, or add a rudimentary component to a spice engine.  Better than nothing.
« Last Edit: June 28, 2014, 07:46:55 pm by Rigby »
 

Online NiHaoMike

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Re: Components you wish existed
« Reply #73 on: June 28, 2014, 04:52:42 pm »
will mjpeg do? not a chip, but still ~$50
http://danman.eu/blog/reverse-engineering-lenkeng-hdmi-over-ip-extender/
I read about that but I have no idea of its latency. I intend to use it for gaming.
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Offline daqq

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Re: Components you wish existed
« Reply #74 on: June 28, 2014, 05:17:26 pm »
Oh, I forgot:

Pretty much everything Hamamatsu makes at 1/10 or less of the price  ;D
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