| General > General Technical Chat |
| Confused about PHEV, Hybrids, etc... |
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| tszaboo:
--- Quote from: gnuarm on August 02, 2022, 09:46:54 pm ---I don't really care what numbers you use. They are wrong. --- End quote --- Dont worry, I dont care about what you have to say either, since you shown yourself to be an opiniated irritating person, in write only mode, who doesn't consider anything even if someone sends them actual fata proving them wrong. Ignore list. Good day sir. |
| gnuarm:
--- Quote from: tszaboo on August 02, 2022, 10:32:07 pm --- --- Quote from: gnuarm on August 02, 2022, 09:46:54 pm ---I don't really care what numbers you use. They are wrong. --- End quote --- Dont worry, I dont care about what you have to say either, since you shown yourself to be an opiniated irritating person, in write only mode, who doesn't consider anything even if someone sends them actual fata proving them wrong. Ignore list. Good day sir. --- End quote --- That's the trouble, you found some information somewhere and picked data from that which seemed reasonable. Meanwhile it is not relevant at all because a huge percentage of the BEVs on the roads get 4-5 miles per kWh. You web site wasn't even working. Here's one that does. https://ecocostsavings.com/electric-car-kwh-per-mile-list/ I don't know how you can blame me for being unreasonable. |
| Miyuki:
--- Quote from: gnuarm on August 02, 2022, 09:46:54 pm --- --- Quote from: tszaboo on August 02, 2022, 09:23:16 pm --- --- Quote from: gnuarm on August 01, 2022, 09:22:26 pm --- --- Quote from: Miyuki on August 01, 2022, 09:21:06 pm --- --- Quote from: gnuarm on August 01, 2022, 09:07:29 pm --- --- Quote from: tszaboo on August 01, 2022, 10:24:04 am ---Its more of a situation with the current electricity prices. Right now I got a contract at 0.4 EUR/KWh. Considering an electric car uses 22KWh for 100 KM, this is 8.8EUR in electricity. A hybrid would have let's say 4.5L fuel usage, resulting about ~10 EUR for the same trip, since fuel costs somewhere around 2.2EUR/L. I think right now it's probably cheaper to run your house from a diesel generator than to pay for these absolutely ridiculous electricity prices. I cannot wait for the gov. to drop the hammer on these companies because for sure they are price gauging the situation. If I wouldn't have my solar panels I would be absolutely upset. --- End quote --- I think your numbers are faulty. 22 kWh/100 km is around 350 Wh/mi. That is a high average consumption, even for my model X which is the BEV equivalent of the US family station wagon (now it's a van or large SUV). Most BEVs are more in the 4-5 mi/kWhr, 200-250 Wh/mi. Try your calculations with those numbers. --- End quote --- I know "early" EVs from the 80s and 90s were around 20-25 kWh/100 km with lead acid batteries And it was small cars like VW Golf --- End quote --- Like I said, faulty numbers. --- End quote --- https://ev-database.org/cheatsheet/energy-consumption-electric-car I picked a number in the middle. If you are going to do a "but but but" then include charger efficiency and then you end up with this number. --- End quote --- I don't really care what numbers you use. They are wrong. Today's BEVs get around 4-5 miles per kWh. Convert that to kWh/100km or whatever unit you prefer, but if you start with faulty numbers, you won't get a meaningful result. I don't know anything about your database because it doesn't load. The connection has timed out An error occurred during a connection to ev-database.org. --- End quote --- The reason why you two are operating with different numbers is that you are talking about "cars" whereas in this average are not just cars but vans like Citroen e-SpaceTourer M And it pushes the average significantly higher |
| gnuarm:
--- Quote from: Miyuki on August 03, 2022, 05:02:10 am --- --- Quote from: gnuarm on August 02, 2022, 09:46:54 pm --- --- Quote from: tszaboo on August 02, 2022, 09:23:16 pm --- --- Quote from: gnuarm on August 01, 2022, 09:22:26 pm --- --- Quote from: Miyuki on August 01, 2022, 09:21:06 pm --- --- Quote from: gnuarm on August 01, 2022, 09:07:29 pm --- --- Quote from: tszaboo on August 01, 2022, 10:24:04 am ---Its more of a situation with the current electricity prices. Right now I got a contract at 0.4 EUR/KWh. Considering an electric car uses 22KWh for 100 KM, this is 8.8EUR in electricity. A hybrid would have let's say 4.5L fuel usage, resulting about ~10 EUR for the same trip, since fuel costs somewhere around 2.2EUR/L. I think right now it's probably cheaper to run your house from a diesel generator than to pay for these absolutely ridiculous electricity prices. I cannot wait for the gov. to drop the hammer on these companies because for sure they are price gauging the situation. If I wouldn't have my solar panels I would be absolutely upset. --- End quote --- I think your numbers are faulty. 22 kWh/100 km is around 350 Wh/mi. That is a high average consumption, even for my model X which is the BEV equivalent of the US family station wagon (now it's a van or large SUV). Most BEVs are more in the 4-5 mi/kWhr, 200-250 Wh/mi. Try your calculations with those numbers. --- End quote --- I know "early" EVs from the 80s and 90s were around 20-25 kWh/100 km with lead acid batteries And it was small cars like VW Golf --- End quote --- Like I said, faulty numbers. --- End quote --- https://ev-database.org/cheatsheet/energy-consumption-electric-car I picked a number in the middle. If you are going to do a "but but but" then include charger efficiency and then you end up with this number. --- End quote --- I don't really care what numbers you use. They are wrong. Today's BEVs get around 4-5 miles per kWh. Convert that to kWh/100km or whatever unit you prefer, but if you start with faulty numbers, you won't get a meaningful result. I don't know anything about your database because it doesn't load. The connection has timed out An error occurred during a connection to ev-database.org. --- End quote --- The reason why you two are operating with different numbers is that you are talking about "cars" whereas in this average are not just cars but vans like Citroen e-SpaceTourer M And it pushes the average significantly higher --- End quote --- Ok, enough said. |
| Someone:
--- Quote from: Miyuki on August 03, 2022, 05:02:10 am ---The reason why you two are operating with different numbers is that you are talking about "cars" whereas in this average are not just cars but vans like Citroen e-SpaceTourer M And it pushes the average significantly higher --- End quote --- Also, electric cars are most efficient in slow city traffic exactly where a fossil car is least efficient. On the highway the roles are reversed and fossil bombs are running closer to peak efficiency while electric battery tanks hit the laws of physics. So when anyone with a strong bias wants to argue "facts" they're likely picking some unrepresentative numbers. Comparable cars (same model!) on the Australian (older/slower NEDC type) testing: https://www.greenvehicleguide.gov.au/Vehicle/Search Hyundai 2021 Kona EV 150kw Electric 13.1 kWh/100km Hyundai 2021 Kona EV 100kW Electric 14.3 kWh/100km Hyundai 2021 Kona 2.0 4cyl 6.2 l/100km Hyundai 2021 Kona 1.6 4cyl Turbo 4wd 6.9 l/100km They're one of the lowest claimed electric consumption per 100km across the market (bizarrely the reported figures are reverse of what would be expected for the different electric models!) while mediocre on the fossils (and if you check the full database the combined is lower than either urban or extraurban for that last example). Its not unknown for manufacturers to have enhanced aero features/parts only added to some models within a lineup, making comparison even harder. But when the offical databases are this hard to follow/broken the numbers are close to guessing. Don't know why EV's aren't reporting separately for urban/extraurban like "normal" vehicles. |
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