| General > General Technical Chat |
| Confused about PHEV, Hybrids, etc... |
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| Miyuki:
--- Quote from: tom66 on August 04, 2022, 10:50:14 am ---And then we have bizarre vehicles like the Nissan e-Power Qashqai (I hate this car so much in any form, but maybe I have an irrational hatred towards SUVs.) https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/nissan/qashqai/357617/new-nissan-qashqai-e-power-2022-review This car features a 1.5cyl petrol engine driving a generator which charges either a 2.1kWh battery, and a regular 187 hp electric motor then driving the wheels. So it's a series hybrid. But it has no option to recharge the battery - all energy comes from combustion. There are very few series hybrids in use, as I understand it the concern is double conversion losses from generator to motor are notable enough to avoid this design in most cases. I can't imagine this offers any benefit on the highway but maybe in the city the ability to keep the petrol engine at high load all of the time is of some benefit. Still, it does seem like a rather odd design. --- End quote --- With at least 10kWh, a better 20kWh battery, and charging it will be a great thing but this ::) It seems Toyota refused to give them their hybrid technology and it might be a little cheaper to build. But makes no sense in this configuration. Keeping the engine at a high/constant load has significant benefits on pollutants (NOx, hydrocarbons) and can be easily tuned for higher efficiency as commonly required wide RPM range gives a significant hit to efficiency |
| gnuarm:
--- Quote from: Miyuki on August 04, 2022, 11:07:56 am --- --- Quote from: tom66 on August 04, 2022, 10:50:14 am ---And then we have bizarre vehicles like the Nissan e-Power Qashqai (I hate this car so much in any form, but maybe I have an irrational hatred towards SUVs.) https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/nissan/qashqai/357617/new-nissan-qashqai-e-power-2022-review This car features a 1.5cyl petrol engine driving a generator which charges either a 2.1kWh battery, and a regular 187 hp electric motor then driving the wheels. So it's a series hybrid. But it has no option to recharge the battery - all energy comes from combustion. There are very few series hybrids in use, as I understand it the concern is double conversion losses from generator to motor are notable enough to avoid this design in most cases. I can't imagine this offers any benefit on the highway but maybe in the city the ability to keep the petrol engine at high load all of the time is of some benefit. Still, it does seem like a rather odd design. --- End quote --- With at least 10kWh, a better 20kWh battery, and charging it will be a great thing but this ::) It seems Toyota refused to give them their hybrid technology and it might be a little cheaper to build. But makes no sense in this configuration. Keeping the engine at a high/constant load has significant benefits on pollutants (NOx, hydrocarbons) and can be easily tuned for higher efficiency as commonly required wide RPM range gives a significant hit to efficiency --- End quote --- But no matter how hard they try, they won't get the carbon emission down to zero. This is why hybrids are pointless. They are a solution to a problem we no longer have (non-CO2 pollutants) with the introduction of BEVs. |
| nctnico:
I guess you are missing the fact that bio-fuels have existed for a long time already and are being used more and more! And BEVs don't make coal and gas fueled power plants go away! |
| edy:
I remember a video about an old bus in Germany (Gyro bus) that used a flywheel to power itself. There is even someone who tried to make a bicycle with a flywheel to help recuperate some of the breaking energy lost to heat (with the added advantage that the flywheel acted to help balance the bicycle at low speeds). Could there be any advantage to using such a purely mechanical system let's say within the wheels themselves or on the drive-train that can be coupled to a small CVT/clutch mechanism that will not be overcome by the added weight needed to carry such a flywheel around all the time? (NOT TO MENTION the SAFETY CONCERNS if there is ever an accident, these flywheels can wreak havoc on anything in the area if it escapes). Here are the different videos, first on the German flywheel bus and second video on the attempt to make a flywheel bicycle: Flywheel bike: |
| Miyuki:
--- Quote from: edy on August 04, 2022, 02:07:18 pm ---I remember a video about an old bus in Germany (Gyro bus) that used a flywheel to power itself. There is even someone who tried to make a bicycle with a flywheel to help recuperate some of the breaking energy lost to heat (with the added advantage that the flywheel acted to help balance the bicycle at low speeds). Could there be any advantage to using such a purely mechanical system let's say within the wheels themselves or on the drive-train that can be coupled to a small CVT/clutch mechanism that will not be overcome by the added weight needed to carry such a flywheel around all the time? (NOT TO MENTION the SAFETY CONCERNS if there is ever an accident, these flywheels can wreak havoc on anything in the area if it escapes). --- End quote --- It is called KERS and is used in some race cars Turns out it is way more expensive than a hybrid drive train with a small battery --- Quote from: gnuarm on August 04, 2022, 12:40:10 pm --- --- Quote from: Miyuki on August 04, 2022, 11:07:56 am ---With at least 10kWh, a better 20kWh battery, and charging it will be a great thing but this ::) It seems Toyota refused to give them their hybrid technology and it might be a little cheaper to build. But makes no sense in this configuration. Keeping the engine at a high/constant load has significant benefits on pollutants (NOx, hydrocarbons) and can be easily tuned for higher efficiency as commonly required wide RPM range gives a significant hit to efficiency --- End quote --- But no matter how hard they try, they won't get the carbon emission down to zero. This is why hybrids are pointless. They are a solution to a problem we no longer have (non-CO2 pollutants) with the introduction of BEVs. --- End quote --- Tell me when US and EU (not saying about China and India) will have zero carbon electricity ::) It won't be in this or even next decade They are to bridge the gap, and with some bio/syn fuels to be used even then for cases when BEV won't offer the required range, because there always will be some minor cases where you will need more flexibility Plus another rare example, but sadly real. How would a massive amount of people run from disaster (like a natural one or a war), you will end up with plenty of people stuck at 100-200 km. Current cheap EVs have these ranges plus will be a big portion of people do not have them fully charged. BEVs are great city cars and I will agree they shall be even mandatory in city centers (even as I'm libertarian) but with the current technology level, energy mix and state of society are not a silver bullet. |
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