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Confused about PHEV, Hybrids, etc...

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tom66:

--- Quote from: Cerebus on August 07, 2022, 06:37:54 pm ---There speaks a man who hasn't driven one, or at least lived with one for a while. The popularity, among those who have driven them, is that they are good to drive. I'm a petrol head of long standing, having driven a range of cars and motorbikes, for the cars mostly "performance" cars including some serious exotica and I like driving EVs. My PHEV gets driven almost exclusively in EV mode where it only has 66kW/88bhp available to drag its 1735 kg kerb weight around, but it doesn't feel like "only" 38kW/51bhp per tonne, it feels more responsive and tractable than the 130bhp/tonne sports car it replaced and that I liked so much, and couldn't find anything comparable in performance or handling, that I've stuck to driving for the last 22 years.

--- End quote ---

Very much the same for my GTE.  It's little 100hp electric motor provides more than enough power for zipping around the city.  It has a six-speed auto gearbox which the motor operates through (present only because it's a hybrid, and, y'know, ICE power-bands kind of suck) which is the only cause of any of the latency... usually the gearbox hasn't managed to select the lowest gear needed for max torque.  (I've taken to blipping the gearbox down when approaching roundabouts, etc.  The instant torque is very useful there if you spot a gap on the approach.)

I cannot wait to replace it with something fully electric because I know it will just be better to drive.  The gearbox is a compromise. 

I used to drive a five-speed naturally aspirated petrol engine car, which I thought was a nice car to drive.  But, it took one test drive of an EV - a Nissan Leaf at the time, back in 2017 - to convince me that electric was the future. 

gnuarm:

--- Quote from: nctnico on August 07, 2022, 07:21:03 pm ---
--- Quote from: gnuarm on August 07, 2022, 06:58:41 pm ---
--- Quote from: nctnico on August 07, 2022, 03:20:55 pm ---Maybe you should read the news a bit more in-depth. There are hydrogen storage and production projects in various states allover the world in order to supply energy across the globe. This is one close at home for me: https://www.shell.com/media/news-and-media-releases/2022/shell-to-start-building-europes-largest-renewable-hydrogen-plant.html
--- End quote ---

Yes, there are projects for generating hydrogen.  None of them are in competition with Petroleum, or more importantly, none are in competition with BEVs in any way.

--- End quote ---
Not yet but the wheels are in motion.

--- Quote ---

--- Quote ---And you are wrong about oil being an energy source. It isn't; it is stored solar energy.
--- End quote ---

LOL!!!  I actually laughed at that one.  When you decide to get serious, let me know and we can continue the discussion.  LOL!

--- End quote ---
So, where does oil come from according to you?

--- End quote ---

The point is no one sane gives a durn.  Petroleum is as much an energy source as any.  As much as the sun, as much as an atom, as much as coal.  We dig it from the ground and burn it to make heat which we then, with low efficiencies, turn into useful energy. 

Hydrogen doesn't even exist as a pure substance until we free it from methane or water by adding copious quantities of energy and in the case of methane, release copious quantities of carbon into the air. 

When hydrogen can be produced at a price equivalent to even $4 a gallon gasoline, without releasing carbon into the air, come back and tell us about it.  Until then, hydrogen is stillborn. 

edy:
I just read an article about how car manufacturers are trying to make everything a "subscription" to drive future revenue, from installed hardware (that you choose whether to use or not) to software features (especially "cloud-connected" stuff). Knowing that, how will it impact the future owner-subscription model for automobiles and green-energy?

For example, would we essentially have a fleet of eco-friendly vehicles lined up to use in a neighbourhood and share them between people? Perhaps apartment blocks could have a scheduling system where you can reserve the car and pay for certain time using it. Would we be paying per mile driven? Would anyone even own their electric or hybrid vehicles, or would car manufacturers actually embed eco-friendly features and then disable them unless paying a subscription to utilize them (e.g. a larger-capacity battery but you can't use most of it).

So far we have been thinking "in the box" regarding the same standard private vehicle ownership model and commuting to work, stores, for leisure, etc. But what sort of paradigm-shifting future plans exist for transportation? More people working and shopping from home, via the "Metaverse" can also reduce fuel consumption. Ride-sharing and other modes of transportation to reduce traffic congestion, which also wastes a ton of fuel (how many single-passenger vehicles occupying the roads). Yes we can work on making more fuel-efficient cars but that will eventually hit a limit.... it is only one part of a multi-pronged approach. I feel like other ways to reduce transportation in general, like increasing efficiency of existing modes (not in terms of fuel but eliminating single-passengers in 5 ton vehicles, more carpooling, store deliveries, pooled shipping, lighter/smaller 1-2 passenger vehicles like weather-covered e-bikes, etc) will have more impact.

tom66:
Self driving vehicles really change the dynamics.

If you use a car a lot it is more practical to self drive - taxi drivers are a significant part of the cost of a taxi ride.  SDCs eliminate that cost (sorry, drivers) but at same time allow packetisation of traffic into smaller services.  You could easily have 1-2 seater vehicles for short single person trips and 5-7 seater vehicles for family trips.  A trip to IKEA could be one way in the microcar and the way back in an autovan.  Suddenly huge parking lots become small drop off / pick up areas and all of that tarmac gets used for actual businesses and homes.

Of course, SDCs don't really exist yet, but I do think that from 2030 or so they will start to play a significant role in our transport infrastructure.  Private cars will still exist especially for areas much less profitable to serve with SDCs (very rural areas) and there will be people who like driving or want a customised vehicle / have accessibility needs.  But a lot of car ownership is about convenience and the only thing more convenient than owning a car is all of the benefits of a car without actually having to park it on your drive.

gnuarm:

--- Quote from: edy on August 11, 2022, 04:02:04 pm ---I just read an article about how car manufacturers are trying to make everything a "subscription" to drive future revenue, from installed hardware (that you choose whether to use or not) to software features (especially "cloud-connected" stuff). Knowing that, how will it impact the future owner-subscription model for automobiles and green-energy?
--- End quote ---

I will refuse to buy any car that has a subscription model for features.



--- Quote ---For example, would we essentially have a fleet of eco-friendly vehicles lined up to use in a neighbourhood and share them between people? Perhaps apartment blocks could have a scheduling system where you can reserve the car and pay for certain time using it. Would we be paying per mile driven? Would anyone even own their electric or hybrid vehicles, or would car manufacturers actually embed eco-friendly features and then disable them unless paying a subscription to utilize them (e.g. a larger-capacity battery but you can't use most of it).
--- End quote ---

Subscription model for car features and sharing cars are two different things.  There are already places that let you "rent" shared cars via several different payment plans.  That's great for people who mostly don't need to own a car, but many people do need a car every day for commuting.



--- Quote ---So far we have been thinking "in the box" regarding the same standard private vehicle ownership model and commuting to work, stores, for leisure, etc. But what sort of paradigm-shifting future plans exist for transportation?
--- End quote ---

Public transportation is the obvious way to commute to work, but it has convenience issues.   It is also a one time improvement.  Once everyone is commuting by public transportation, you've reached the minimum of energy use and pollution.  So it's not a ongoing improvement.  Renewable energy can be ongoing as more and more aspects of our energy use is converted.



--- Quote ---More people working and shopping from home, via the "Metaverse" can also reduce fuel consumption. Ride-sharing and other modes of transportation to reduce traffic congestion, which also wastes a ton of fuel (how many single-passenger vehicles occupying the roads). Yes we can work on making more fuel-efficient cars but that will eventually hit a limit.... it is only one part of a multi-pronged approach. I feel like other ways to reduce transportation in general, like increasing efficiency of existing modes (not in terms of fuel but eliminating single-passengers in 5 ton vehicles, more carpooling, store deliveries, pooled shipping, lighter/smaller 1-2 passenger vehicles like weather-covered e-bikes, etc) will have more impact.

--- End quote ---

I don't know that we need to reduce energy use as much as simply finding ways to make it cleaner. 

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