General > General Technical Chat
Confused about PHEV, Hybrids, etc...
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nctnico:

--- Quote from: bdunham7 on August 13, 2022, 11:32:26 pm ---
--- Quote from: Someone on August 13, 2022, 10:52:19 pm ---I can't even get an oil change for $200 (the oil wholesale is $100 already)...

...But do keep trying to argue my referenced figures are "wrong", under your entirely different set of assumptions and accounting (that you haven't been making explicit).

--- End quote ---

Perhaps $AUD are weaker than I thought?  A 5-quart bottle of very high grade synthetic oil runs me $40, but I could cut that in half if I went with a cheaper brand.

--- End quote ---
Prices are similar over here. An oil change with full synthetic oil and filter sets me back almost 80 euro. Not worth doing it myself.
Someone:

--- Quote from: bdunham7 on August 13, 2022, 11:32:26 pm ---Yes, I do most of the work on my own, but if you want to count that as a 'cost'....
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how much more clearly do we have to say this....

--- Quote from: tom66 on August 12, 2022, 01:52:55 pm ---Are you truly including all of the other costs of a car?
do as much of this yourself, the time cost
--- End quote ---
Keep talking off in the other direction, its just you making noise at this point. The argument has been carefully framed and explained, unlike your meander up the garden path to some backwater.


--- Quote from: bdunham7 on August 13, 2022, 11:32:26 pm ---Yes, I do most of the work on my own, but if you want to count that as a 'cost', I want to add back in the time that I wait for your SDC service every time I summon it.
--- End quote ---
The US has had (driven) rideshare wider/longer than other western countries, its nothing new. You dont think "oh I'd like to do something" and wait while staring at the wall. Like anything else (buying a car, fuelling/maintaining/storing it) you think ahead, order a ride share to turn up when you are planning to need it. But this is your corner case of rural/dispersed living.... which isn't representative of the majority of people living on the planet, who live in cities where a distributed transport system is minutes away just like taxis. Shared cars are fairly easily available here, you can walk around the corner and pick one up.

The basics are already there and routine/well known. It is the economics that will change it over. While people keep imaging cars are cheap to run because they ignore/discount all the fixed costs and only look at the incremental cost of fuel it massively distorts that. So yes, I'll keep pushing back and pointing out how the private motor centric viewpoint is blinkered, misleading, entrenched, and against most individuals financial interest.
bdunham7:

--- Quote from: Someone on August 14, 2022, 02:06:26 am ---But this is your corner case of rural/dispersed living.... which isn't representative of the majority of people living on the planet, who live in cities where a distributed transport system is minutes away just like taxis. Shared cars are fairly easily available here, you can walk around the corner and pick one up.

--- End quote ---

There are shared cars in select places here too, as well as those electric scooters laying around in random spots.  But I'd guess (by a fair amount of observation with local knowledge...) that fewer than 20% of the people in my state (an 0% in my county) could switch to rideshare or shared car services and eliminate their vehicles.  And that 20% would include the ones in urban areas that already don't have vehicles.  The remainder--just in my state--would be 31 million people, more than the entire population of Australia.  Not a corner case!  As for the rest of the world, yeah there are some populated spots where owning a car is a huge pain in the ass, but in most of those areas there is workable public transportation already.  In addition, driving can be miserable and dangerous, so lots of people already don't have cars.  People have already made those decisions based on circumstances, taxis have been around forever and I don't think an SDC service is going to move the needle either way.  You show me an SDC that works in Delhi and I might change my mind.


--- Quote ---The basics are already there and routine/well known. It is the economics that will change it over. While people keep imaging cars are cheap to run because they ignore/discount all the fixed costs and only look at the incremental cost of fuel it massively distorts that. So yes, I'll keep pushing back and pointing out how the private motor centric viewpoint is blinkered, misleading, entrenched, and against most individuals financial interest.

--- End quote ---

I wonder what we are actually arguing about as we both came up with pretty low figures (less than $1 USD per mile) running costs for our cars even with entirely different methods.  However, when you are imagining how the SDC is going to change the blinkered, entrenched 'private motor centric viewpoint', remember that I and a lot of other people can easily afford our cars no matter how you figure the costs.  Indeed my low costs are just habit and happenstance--I may end up buying a much more expensive car and my costs may go way up and I won't care.  We like having our own cars that we're used to with the seats adjusted correctly and the beach chairs already in the trunk.  Even if you convince me that the SDC service will be 1/3 the price and you give me free oscilloscopes to fill up my garage, I'm not going to bite.  I'm pretty sure at least 30 million people here agree with me.
Someone:

--- Quote from: bdunham7 on August 14, 2022, 04:53:22 am ---
--- Quote from: Someone on August 14, 2022, 02:06:26 am ---But this is your corner case of rural/dispersed living.... which isn't representative of the majority of people living on the planet, who live in cities where a distributed transport system is minutes away just like taxis. Shared cars are fairly easily available here, you can walk around the corner and pick one up.
--- End quote ---
But I'd guess (by a fair amount of observation with local knowledge...) that fewer than 20% of the people in my state (an 0% in my county) could switch to rideshare or shared car services and eliminate their vehicles.
--- End quote ---
US has been car centric since the 50's, its part of the culture. That is one barrier, and something entirely different to density/distance/availability which is what you started brining up.


--- Quote from: bdunham7 on August 13, 2022, 11:32:26 pm ---As for corner cases--what? All of rural and suburban USA is a 'corner case'?  There's no way to avoid deadheading if you are using a reasonable number (not too many) of vehicles.
--- End quote ---

However, seems you're just going to keep arguing to the ends of the earth about how your US car centric view is the "majority"....  :-//

Attached is an example density of the US, the majority (within the US, before considering the 95% of the world population outside those borders) live in dense suburbs or cities not the acre+ block per person you're imagining from the mass media representations. "Exploratory analysis of suburban land cover and population density in the U.S.A". The majority of the world live in cities, the majority of the US live in cities.
tom66:
We've (almost, once the solicitors finish the paperwork) bought a house and we wanted somewhere with a driveway partially because we both plan to get EVs but also because we don't want to street park our cars.  Around here the average house with a drive seems to cost about £30,000 more than one without (I'm comparing to places where it would be impossible to install a driveway, due to no front garden for instance.)  I don't know how this varies across the world - I suspect places like the USA in suburbia land is so cheap it may have little impact but in denser areas it would have an impact.

If SDCs do come to pass while we still own the place we'd consider, within the realms of planning permission, extending the house into where that driveway is.  May not be possible now due to regulations, but in 20 years if everyone has empty driveways, it could be a big shift.
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