General > General Technical Chat
Confused about PHEV, Hybrids, etc...
tom66:
The price of all cars is crazy inflated right now due to Chipageddon, high natural gas prices, supply chain issues etc. The lead time for an ID.4 for instance is 14 months. :wtf:
On that basis I don't think you can look at the price of any of these right now and draw conclusion about the long term price stability. Li-ion batteries are under $150/kWh so even a 58kWh pack is less than $10k in cell cost: this is a small factor of overall vehicle price (for 50kEUR car!!)
tszaboo:
--- Quote from: Miyuki on August 17, 2022, 10:19:15 am ---Current Lithium based batteries practically hit the raw material cost so they won't be significantly cheaper. Rather might even go a little up.
Maybe Sodium based ones in 10 or so years, can offer a solution, but who knows.
And when I look at the price of BEVs without subsidy it is not nice
Volkswagen ID.3 58kWh current price 48-50k €
Nissan Leaf 39kWh 35k € for the cheapest model and 59kW starts at 43k €
Hyundai IONIQ 5 58 kWh starts at 47k €
Kia EV6 58kWh starts at 52k €
Those are not affordable cars for the average Joe
--- End quote ---
The solid state li-ion is supposed to drop the price of the cells by half. And integration and electronics will be cheaper, as they could use higher voltage battery packs, like lead acid, without cell balancing.
But even used car prices went up like 30% in the past 1-1.5 years. I could sell my car for almost the same amount (80% let's say)than I bought it used 5 years ago.
EEVblog:
--- Quote from: tom66 on August 17, 2022, 09:14:31 am ---Not to mention a proper car sharing infrastructure would eliminate a lot of that anxiety.
VW had/have a scheme where if you want to go on a really long trip and you have an EV you can rent a dirty diesel from them - and I think 1 week's rental per year of lease is free.
But I guess it's the same reason people drive big SUVs. They want a car for that 1% of the time when they go to the airport, or on a long road trip etc, but most of the time they use it to commute to work and back or get shopping etc with one or two passengers. And it's really a waste of resources because it's *hard* to share a car. Improving that is really important.
--- End quote ---
“You’ll own nothing. And you’ll be happy.”
The WEF just came out recently and said they won't want you to own a car.
Yeah, nah.
pcprogrammer:
--- Quote from: EEVblog on August 17, 2022, 11:57:01 am ---“You’ll own nothing. And you’ll be happy.”
--- End quote ---
The richest people in the world must be very unhappy then :-DD
--- Quote from: EEVblog on August 17, 2022, 11:57:01 am ---The WEF just came out recently and said they won't want you to own a car.
Yeah, nah.
--- End quote ---
Is this coming from Klaus Schwab? I have heard some conspiracy talk about the "great reset" where a 4th industrial revolution has to come and create a more sustainable and green economy and governments get total control over you by granting and taking away social security privileges. No idea what is true here and don't want to read the book Klaus Schwab wrote.
But keeping the people happy won't come from them owning nothing and being controlled to the last breath they take. See what happened during covid when the governments turned on the screws. People where not happy :palm:
sokoloff:
--- Quote from: tom66 on August 17, 2022, 09:14:31 am ---Not to mention a proper car sharing infrastructure would eliminate a lot of that anxiety.
VW had/have a scheme where if you want to go on a really long trip and you have an EV you can rent a dirty diesel from them - and I think 1 week's rental per year of lease is free.
But I guess it's the same reason people drive big SUVs. They want a car for that 1% of the time when they go to the airport, or on a long road trip etc, but most of the time they use it to commute to work and back or get shopping etc with one or two passengers. And it's really a waste of resources because it's *hard* to share a car. Improving that is really important.
--- End quote ---
It sure is hard to share a car.
Part of the reason that it's hard to share a long-range car that people might want for 2 weeks out of 52 is that a lot of people will want that car around the same time (summer holidays and Christmas trips). I don't think there's any amount of demand management that's going to make people happy to make their winter family visit on the 4th week in January instead of over Christmas and New Years.
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