General > General Technical Chat

Confused about PHEV, Hybrids, etc...

<< < (46/93) > >>

Someone:

--- Quote from: sokoloff on August 17, 2022, 01:21:04 pm ---
--- Quote from: tom66 on August 17, 2022, 09:14:31 am ---Not to mention a proper car sharing infrastructure would eliminate a lot of that anxiety.

VW had/have a scheme where if you want to go on a really long trip and you have an EV you can rent a dirty diesel from them - and I think 1 week's rental per year of lease is free.

But I guess it's the same reason people drive big SUVs.  They want a car for that 1% of the time when they go to the airport, or on a long road trip etc,  but most of the time they use it to commute to work and back or get shopping etc with one or two passengers.   And it's really a waste of resources because it's *hard* to share a car.  Improving that is really important.
--- End quote ---
It sure is hard to share a car.

Part of the reason that it's hard to share a long-range car that people might want for 2 weeks out of 52 is that a lot of people will want that car around the same time (summer holidays and Christmas trips). I don't think there's any amount of demand management that's going to make people happy to make their winter family visit on the 4th week in January instead of over Christmas and New Years.

--- End quote ---
Which is why very few people are suggesting that every household will use exclusively share cars. Share cars, easily and economically replace cars that are used infrequently. There is already a demand management in place which works for: airlines, hire cars, rental accommodation, the price goes up during cultural "peak" demand. Even at those higher rates, it still makes economic sense to hire/rent. Or are you the 0.001% who own their own jet and international holiday accommodation for each season? Convenience has a very high cost when all that is being held operational for use only a tiny fraction of the time.

EEVblog:

--- Quote from: Someone on August 17, 2022, 09:56:57 pm ---
--- Quote from: sokoloff on August 17, 2022, 01:21:04 pm ---
--- Quote from: tom66 on August 17, 2022, 09:14:31 am ---Not to mention a proper car sharing infrastructure would eliminate a lot of that anxiety.

VW had/have a scheme where if you want to go on a really long trip and you have an EV you can rent a dirty diesel from them - and I think 1 week's rental per year of lease is free.

But I guess it's the same reason people drive big SUVs.  They want a car for that 1% of the time when they go to the airport, or on a long road trip etc,  but most of the time they use it to commute to work and back or get shopping etc with one or two passengers.   And it's really a waste of resources because it's *hard* to share a car.  Improving that is really important.
--- End quote ---
It sure is hard to share a car.

Part of the reason that it's hard to share a long-range car that people might want for 2 weeks out of 52 is that a lot of people will want that car around the same time (summer holidays and Christmas trips). I don't think there's any amount of demand management that's going to make people happy to make their winter family visit on the 4th week in January instead of over Christmas and New Years.

--- End quote ---
Which is why very few people are suggesting that every household will use exclusively share cars. Share cars, easily and economically replace cars that are used infrequently. There is already a demand management in place which works for: airlines, hire cars, rental accommodation, the price goes up during cultural "peak" demand. Even at those higher rates, it still makes economic sense to hire/rent. Or are you the 0.001% who own their own jet and international holiday accommodation for each season? Convenience has a very high cost when all that is being held operational for use only a tiny fraction of the time.
--- End quote ---

It's turtles all the way down.
People like owning stuff, and that will always trickle up the ladder depending on your your wealth level and desire.
For majority of people the car ranks right up there with owning a house.

Someone:

--- Quote from: EEVblog on August 17, 2022, 11:50:02 pm ---People like owning stuff, and that will always trickle up the ladder depending on your your wealth level and desire.
For majority of people the car ranks right up there with owning a house.
--- End quote ---
roughly 1/3 of Australians own a house, 1/3 loan leveraged, 1/3 renting. Similarly 1/4 of people with a car have it on finance. A house generally appreciates (over recent history, bubble etc) while a car is almost always a depreciating asset which is where it falls apart on an ownership model.

Its a social pressure to own those things, and people buy in despite the economics saying otherwise. Then convince themselves and others that it was the "right" thing to do with the sorts of misleading arguments flying about in here. Having been in all the different combinations of above  (rent/leverage/own house, rent/own/share car) there can be situations where one is more profitable than the other. Trying to make generalizations across "majority" when that is mostly based on feelings/desires rather than financial basics, you can say it all you like. I'll point out how its to (the majorities) financial detriment.

gnuarm:

--- Quote from: EEVblog on August 17, 2022, 05:47:40 am ---
--- Quote from: gnuarm on August 17, 2022, 04:03:38 am ---The only possible monkey wrench I see is the possibility of raw materials, such as lithium, limiting production rates.
--- End quote ---

Bingo. Throw in home and grid storage demand and your supply problems get harder.

--- End quote ---

Grid storage is not likely to be lithium based going forward.  Autos and other "mobile" devices have a specific need for high energy density, both by volume and by weight.  Grid storage does not.  Other battery technologies will dominate that market. 

Currently vanadium flow batteries are looking very good for stationary storage.  I just read something about a very large installation that is going in.  I believe it was in an article about how the technology was developed with US funds, and somehow ended up in a Chinese factory.  It seems that is being corrected with the license being pulled. 

EEVblog:

--- Quote from: Someone on August 18, 2022, 03:50:38 am ---
--- Quote from: EEVblog on August 17, 2022, 11:50:02 pm ---People like owning stuff, and that will always trickle up the ladder depending on your your wealth level and desire.
For majority of people the car ranks right up there with owning a house.
--- End quote ---
roughly 1/3 of Australians own a house, 1/3 loan leveraged, 1/3 renting. Similarly 1/4 of people with a car have it on finance. A house generally appreciates (over recent history, bubble etc) while a car is almost always a depreciating asset which is where it falls apart on an ownership model.

Its a social pressure to own those things, and people buy in despite the economics saying otherwise. Then convince themselves and others that it was the "right" thing to do with the sorts of misleading arguments flying about in here. Having been in all the different combinations of above  (rent/leverage/own house, rent/own/share car) there can be situations where one is more profitable than the other. Trying to make generalizations across "majority" when that is mostly based on feelings/desires rather than financial basics, you can say it all you like. I'll point out how its to (the majorities) financial detriment.
--- End quote ---

You don't hear horror stories about people paying cash for a car (lemons aside, warranties generally cover that). But there are countless horror stories of people coming-a-gutsa on car loans. They literally make drama stories on the current affairs shows with monotinous regularly.
If you have the available cash, buy the car, it's pretty uch ano-brainer unless you have other cricumstances like you move or change jobs often or don't have the lifestyle etc. Yes it depreciates with time, but it's also a cash insurance buffer that should SHTF, you can sell it and get instant cash. But if SHTF financially and you are locked into a car repayment loan, good luck.
Only with hindsight can you look back and calculate the overall financial analysis. And sometimes, that's not the point.

I would strongly advise people, as first order advice, don't get a car loan. You are way better off buying a junker outright than going into a replayment plan for a new (or heaven forbid, used) car.

Navigation

[0] Message Index

[#] Next page

[*] Previous page

There was an error while thanking
Thanking...
Go to full version
Powered by SMFPacks Advanced Attachments Uploader Mod