General > General Technical Chat
Confused about PHEV, Hybrids, etc...
Someone:
--- Quote from: pcprogrammer on August 18, 2022, 06:16:27 pm ---I have asked about the actual numbers in another thread, but no one seems to know. Categorized per system emitting CO2 what the actual values are. The main focus at the moment is on the car and the households using fossil fuels to run. Some say this only takes up a very small share in the total CO2 emission the human race is responsible for.
So is there a chart that shows how much CO2 a human or other big animal produces by eating and pooping, how much industry produces, how much house holds produce, how much cars produce, etc.
--- End quote ---
That sort of data is readily available:
https://www.csiro.au/en/research/environmental-impacts/climate-change/climate-change-qa/sources-of-ghg-gases
reported in co2 "equivalent"
Private transport is somewhere around 5-10% of total Australian emissions by that measure. Still a bigger opportunity for change than things like LED bulb replacement (and the carbon offsets that were shuffled around on that).
Cerebus:
--- Quote from: gnuarm on August 18, 2022, 08:49:49 pm ---
--- Quote from: Cerebus on August 18, 2022, 07:34:24 pm ---
--- Quote from: gnuarm on August 18, 2022, 03:21:59 pm ---
--- Quote ---Even L2 charging isn't free or anywhere near free once you price in the wiring to it. Streetside charging, even if only outlets, is a pretty big capital outlay. I'm not sure there is enough copper available.
--- End quote ---
LOL. Ok, if you say so.
--- End quote ---
You clearly have no idea about infrastructure costs. We're talking about places where you need to dig to install new electricity connections, none of that third world pig on a pole stuff.
The average cost of a new supply connection from existing street cables to a dwelling in the UK is £1790, most of that cost is digging in metalled roads and making good. There are 52 roadside parking spaces down my typical residential London street. That's a minimum of 26 type 2 charging points, at a minimum of £1000 a pop for the supply, £1000 a pop for a twin socket charging pillar, so ~£50,000 plus for one street.
If you include all the streets that London Licensed Taxi drivers are required to learn there are over 30,000. That's only the streets within six miles of Charing Cross. London is about 30 miles across, give or take. Which leads to a crude estimate of 180,000 streets. There's 9200 miles of roads in London (not an estimate). So that's on the order of £9 billion, just for London. Over £1000 for each man, woman and child that lives in London. The current property taxes for London total about £5 billion a year.
--- End quote ---
I'm sorry, I really have no idea what you are talking about. "new supply connection from existing street cables to a dwelling"??? Are you planning to build a new house just for your car?
This is the sort of stuff people from the UK give me all the time. There are some who have BEVs and discuss rationally how they charge in their garage or driveway. None of them have needed new feeds from the street! You must think a BEV requires a direct connection to a nuclear power plant to charge! I charge my Tesla model X from a 120V, 15A outlet that provides 1.44 kW to the car which puts just 1 kW into the battery. In the UK, you don't even have such low power outlets, do you?
This is why I typically don't discuss BEVs with people from the UK. They managed to essentially run the world at one point, but today can't seem to be able to wire a 240V outlet.
--- End quote ---
I'm obvious talking about kerbside charging, which is a necessity for the majority of city dwellers in European cities to be able to use BEVs at any scale as practical everyday transport as the vast majority of city dwellers do not have a drive or a garage. Have you ever been to a European city? Perhaps people from the UK give you this "sort of stuff" because they live there and know the conditions and you don't. You sit in your little corner of Puerto Rico and just imagine that the rest of the world works just the same, well it doesn't. The population density of urban London overall is twice that of San Juan, Paris 7.5 times that of San Juan, Barcelona 5.7. Heck the urban population of London is 3 times that of the whole of Puerto Rico, and population density 16 times that of Puerto Rico as a whole. The London metro area has a population 4 1/2 times that of the whole of Puerto Rico
My house is a very typical victorian London terraced house built circa 1850 which is 7m odd wide, as is my neighbours, and so on until the end of the road, and the next street, and the next street in both directions for a mile either way. No driveway, no garage, I have to park on the street in front. Perhaps 1 in 100 houses in my borough (population density 25,000/sq mi, 3.5 times that of San Juan) has a drive or a garage. It's a 2000 year old city, that has been crammed into a river basin. Most UK cities are slightly less packed, but still most of the housing and the residential roads were built well before motor cars were invented; and the average city dweller didn't have a stable for a horse and cart or any attached land that could be repurposed for a drive or a garage.
Here's a typical London street of Victorian terraced houses, similar to mine, ~6 miles from the centre of town.
I've been very lucky, my neighbours are considerate, and I get to park in front of my house almost all the time, and so can cobble together charging at the kerb, running a cable under a safety yellow tread strip. But as soon as there are a few people in my street needing to do that you can bet your last dollar that the local authority will ban it on safety grounds, and probably rightly once these become a common hazard to foot traffic rather than a rare one.
All you are doing by your handwaving and saying that nothing is a problem and everything is all so simple to fix is betray your parochiality and ignorance of the world more than a few thousand feet from your own front door.
Cerebus:
--- Quote from: tom66 on August 18, 2022, 09:05:10 pm ---
--- Quote from: gnuarm on August 18, 2022, 08:49:49 pm ---This is the sort of stuff people from the UK give me all the time. There are some who have BEVs and discuss rationally how they charge in their garage or driveway. None of them have needed new feeds from the street! You must think a BEV requires a direct connection to a nuclear power plant to charge! I charge my Tesla model X from a 120V, 15A outlet that provides 1.44 kW to the car which puts just 1 kW into the battery. In the UK, you don't even have such low power outlets, do you?
--- End quote ---
I'm charging my PHEV from an extension lead run out of the kitchen window! That's 2.3kW. About the lowest you would normally charge a car on around here... Still, it shows that you can install EV charging even if you rent. The total cost of the infrastructure was... about £20 for a heavy duty waterproof lead from the DIY store.
I'll put a proper EV charger on the wall once I move in to the new place.
--- End quote ---
I just upgraded from that to a purpose made extension cable made out of 2.5 mm2 "arctic" cable (for the lower I2R losses) and a pukka IP66 socket for the outdoor end of it. Combined with the IP66 rated charge cable (with integral 3 pole disconnect ELCB) that came with the car I can now charge the car without keeping an eye on the weather (which I was being ultra cautious about before). I wasn't very happy with either the low IP54 rating of the commercial "waterproof" extensions or the whispy thin 1.5mm2 cable - used to get way too warm for my liking (even though I'd obviously done the correct thing and unravelled the whole thing for heat dissipation).
nctnico:
--- Quote from: Cerebus on August 18, 2022, 11:21:30 pm ---I've been very lucky, my neighbours are considerate, and I get to park in front of my house almost all the time, and so can cobble together charging at the kerb, running a cable under a safety yellow tread strip. But as soon as there are a few people in my street needing to do that you can bet your last dollar that the local authority will ban it on safety grounds, and probably rightly once these become a common hazard to foot traffic rather than a rare one.
--- End quote ---
Yup. In the city where I live you get a 259 euro fine for putting a cable over the side walk (to charge your EV). Even if it is in a safety strip.
gnuarm:
--- Quote from: nctnico on August 18, 2022, 09:01:42 pm ---I'm pissing my pants here :-DD
--- End quote ---
Yes, I gather that's par for the course.
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