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| Confused about PHEV, Hybrids, etc... |
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| Monkeh:
--- Quote from: Someone on August 19, 2022, 01:17:13 pm --- --- Quote from: Monkeh on August 19, 2022, 01:03:56 pm --- --- Quote from: Someone on August 19, 2022, 12:46:40 pm ---a thesis elaborating on this without relying on hyperbole and nonsense --- End quote --- If the only work available to you to support your basic living expenses requires travel by car, and the only accomodation available within the budget this creates has no parking, this is not hyperbole nor nonsense. And yes, those conditions exist simultaneously for many, even if you have never been placed in such a position (this is the privilege I have been describing - a lost point to most of those with it). Technically, one has the choice to have none of the three (job, car, and home) and live on the street where they used to park their car, however very few would consider that a reasonable choice - fewer still who have families. --- End quote --- Choices. Move closer to job, or take different job closer to accomodation. No one is forced with no choice to take a job that they must travel by private car to, they choose because they believe it is in their interests. do I have to keep repeating this? choice, is for the individual, they make their decision. Owning a car is a choice, working a given job is a choice, living in a particular location is a choice, its a tiny tiny minority who have even one of those "forced" upon them with no choice. --- End quote --- Once again you discount the reality of limited available employment and housing. Do we have to keep repeating that your idyllic world isn't the entire world? |
| nctnico:
Don't feed the trolls... Don't become the next Wuerstchenhund. |
| tszaboo:
--- Quote from: Someone on August 19, 2022, 01:12:26 pm --- --- Quote from: nctnico on August 19, 2022, 12:53:49 pm --- --- Quote from: Someone on August 19, 2022, 12:34:56 pm ---25% of UK households have no car, 30% of Dutch households have no car. It's not some fringe thing or solely out of poverty, but a legitimate choice for many. --- End quote --- Where did you get those numbers? The report you linked to says 12.9% in 2014. Since then the number of cars in the NL has grown by more than 14% --- End quote --- Well done crossing different posts to try and make out like I'm being inconsistent, one is an 8 year old set of data with extensive discussion of underlying reasons for car ownership (or not), vs current figures that you could equally try and find disputing numbers and references but hey: UK 25% https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/personalandhouseholdfinances/incomeandwealth/adhocs/009922numberofvehiclesperhousehold Dutch 30% https://www.iamexpat.nl/lifestyle/lifestyle-news/30-percent-dutch-households-do-not-own-car or Dutch 26% http://techzle.com/car-ownership-in-the-netherlands-continues-to-increase .. specifically noting that more cars per capita /= more households with cars --- Quote from: nctnico on August 19, 2022, 12:53:49 pm ---But your whole 'it is a choice' theme is utterly ridiculous. For many owning a car means being able to make more money and thus have a better live. Who wouldn't want a better life? --- End quote --- Some will be better off and some won't, but they have the choice. Its not ridiculous to say people can make choices about these things, for some the choice will be obvious, but the "reasoning" shown in this thread is laughable. --- End quote --- https://english.kimnet.nl/publications/publications/2022/02/22/the-widespread-car-ownership-in-the-netherlands "Car ownership used to be a choice but is now a necessity." Monkeh, also, about your parking opinion: "Most Dutch people can park within 10 meters of their homes" If you want my opinion, build better cities and towns. |
| tom66:
Part of the issue is when cars became popular (50's onwards) we never made the assertion that if you want to own a car you have to park it on your own land. It would have changed housing infrastructure and probably reduced car dependency - probably both - if this was insisted upon. Instead people just parked it on the street which is odd if you think about it, I'm not allowed to put a skip on the street without oodles of paperwork, a few phone calls and a strict time limit for removal, yet a car can be parked for years, as long as it is taxed and insured!! |
| Monkeh:
And it's far too late to do it now, so reality unfortunately has diverged from utopian dream. |
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