General > General Technical Chat
Confused about PHEV, Hybrids, etc...
gnuarm:
--- Quote from: Monkeh on August 20, 2022, 08:27:08 pm ---
--- Quote from: gnuarm on August 20, 2022, 07:12:34 pm ---Economic pressures will require every property owner to provide BEV charging just like they currently provide Internet, cable and other services, your protestations aside.
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Property owners provide none of these things.
Here's an example from a friend of mine of a street which will be problematic: https://goo.gl/maps/62227FQWX5SyFpaj6
I await your suggestions.
E: Or how about this one: https://goo.gl/maps/8nbw3BvUu3bhknUH9
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So no one in your city has Internet, cable or other facilities?
Don't be pedantic. When I said, "every property owner to provide BEV charging just like they currently provide Internet, cable and other services", I meant access. No, they don't pay for your cable or Internet service, but you would not have access if they didn't allow the building to be wired for it. Same with charging.
tom66:
--- Quote from: Monkeh on August 20, 2022, 08:27:08 pm ---Here's an example from a friend of mine of a street which will be problematic: https://goo.gl/maps/62227FQWX5SyFpaj6
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Install drainage gutters like these: https://energysavingtrust.org.uk/case-study/oxgul-e/ allowing those who live on the same side that they park on to charge their vehicles from their home.
Add on street infrastructure according to extra needs, like homes on the alternate side, visitors, etc. Or negotiate with residents to have public EV infrastructure fitted to their property in return for no standing charge or some discount off charging.
--- Quote from: Monkeh on August 20, 2022, 08:27:08 pm ---E: Or how about this one: https://goo.gl/maps/8nbw3BvUu3bhknUH9
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Much the same.
Some of these issues can be resolved by other means of public charging, like at work, supermarket, or electric "petrol" stations.
nctnico:
--- Quote from: tom66 on August 20, 2022, 09:01:56 pm ---
--- Quote from: Monkeh on August 20, 2022, 08:27:08 pm ---Here's an example from a friend of mine of a street which will be problematic: https://goo.gl/maps/62227FQWX5SyFpaj6
--- End quote ---
Install drainage gutters like these: https://energysavingtrust.org.uk/case-study/oxgul-e/ allowing those who live on the same side that they park on to charge their vehicles from their home.
--- End quote ---
That still doesn't solve the problem with people having no fixed parking spaces. Over here it is first comes, first served. If you are late, then you have to park your car far away from your home. Street level charging can only be solved by having a public charging point at each parking spot (and then some because typically there aren't enough parking spots to begin with). But that is a rather expensive solution. With better batteries that allow charging in a few minutes and gas-station like super chargers, things will be much easier and more economic. At home charging is a crutch and shouldn't be an end goal for charging infrastructure.
Cerebus:
--- Quote from: gnuarm on August 20, 2022, 08:05:11 pm ---
--- Quote from: Cerebus on August 19, 2022, 02:33:55 am ---
--- Quote from: gnuarm on August 19, 2022, 01:06:30 am ---Cerebus: I'm not handwaving. I just know that this is not such an insurmountable problem. It only requires a bit of innovative thinking rather than not looking past the roadblock.
Ok, that is what I have said several times. Many, but not all people from the UK, who discuss this seem to think it is an intractable problem. I'm willing to bet that in 10 years, solutions abound.
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If it just requires "a bit of innovative thinking" then you should be able to provide that if it's so simple. Reducing it to "a bit of innovative thinking" without proposing even the faintest hint of a concrete solution is exactly handwaving.
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Happy to. What's the problem to be solved? If it's charging BEVs, the obvious solution is to install charging.
Next!
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Are you actively trying to portray yourself as a fool and a gobshite?
--- Quote --- Another 25% are installed in apartment and condo parking facilities at the owners' expense.
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:-DD :-DD Again you are demonstrating your parochiality and your inability to think more than a few 1000 feet from your front door while ignoring those who actually know and live in the places you are making ex cathedra pronouncements about. To assume that 25% of the population live in "apartment and condo" with dedicated parking facilities proves that you know nothing about the country you're offering an easy fix for. For a start, nobody in the UK lives in anything they call a "condo". I won't bother explaining how it really is or put numbers to it because you'll just ignore them.
Needless to say, your numbers are way off. Good luck getting the electricity company to merely connect a supply to a charge point for the money you think it will cost to connect, supply and install the whole thing. As I said before, you clearly have no idea about infrastructure costs. I've had to contract people to lay and populate ducting in public roads and conduct streetworks - it costs a small fortune and even if you have "code powers" with which one can force local authorities to let you dig up their roads it still involves a mountain of expensive paperwork before the first pickaxe is wielded or the first digger ignition key turned.
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--- Quote ---London currently has around 6000 EV public charge points, mostly 7kW slow AC chargers
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Which are fast for level 2 charging and EXACTLY what you want!!! BEVs are not gas fueled smoke belchers. You don't stand around waiting for them to charge. You charge when they are parked, which is 95% of the time. Parked at home, be charging. Parked at work, be charging. Parked which shopping or at a movie, be charging.
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I am struggling to decide whether you're being deliberately obtuse or are just plain dim. There are six thousand public charging points for all the PHEVs and BEVs extant in the whole of London. Just how can you miss that point and wander off onto a monologue on what's a suitable style of charging as if the point was about them being 7kW chargers. That was not the point. The relevance of them mostly being only 7kW chargers is that makes them difficult for vehicles to share them serially in quick order. Indeed they would have to charge overnight, which is bugger all use if there are 6000 public chargers for an estimated 263,000 EVs in London. Only an idiot would fail to see that is a significant barrier to adoption of EVs by people who only have access to on-street parking and thus are compelled to use on-street charging, which is the majority of Londoners.
You still seem to completely ignore that for the majority of Britons home charging is not practical or possible, and is not likely to become so in the foreseable future. Nobody, but nobody, is going to buy an EV if they can't first guarantee that they can charge it. You can handwave as much as you like about how easy it is to install charge points, but in the real world they are not being installed at the rate needed to support growth of EV ownership. If it is as easy as you claim and as cheap as you claim then it must make commercial sense and so people should be falling over themselves to do it. Yet they are not. Perhaps, just perhaps, it isn't as cheap and easy as you claim and that's why it's not happening.
You also seem to manage to completely ignore that I'm an EV driver and lecture me as if I've no clue about how they charge, how much charge they need, when they need it etc. etc.
You're so tied up in your own little world that you seem incapable of taking in information from people with first hand experience that differs from your own.
tom66:
--- Quote from: nctnico on August 20, 2022, 09:13:05 pm ---That still doesn't solve the problem with people having no fixed parking spaces. Over here it is first comes, first served. If you are late, then you have to park your car far away from your home. Street level charging can only be solved by having a public charging point at each parking spot (and then some because typically there aren't enough parking spots to begin with). But that is a rather expensive solution. With better batteries that allow charging in a few minutes and gas-station like super chargers, things will be much easier and more economic. At home charging is a crutch and shouldn't be an end goal for charging infrastructure.
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It does solve the need, if it's public charging. Recall a 20 mile range per day would mean the average user of a 200 mile car is charging less than once per week. So if you put chargers in that cover say 20% of all spaces then that would cover demand fairly comfortably I suspect.
Fast charging is absolutely important but I think you're missing a key advantage of EVs if you don't take advantage of slow trickle charging, even if that's not done when parked at home.
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