General > General Technical Chat
Confused about PHEV, Hybrids, etc...
gnuarm:
--- Quote from: tom66 on August 22, 2022, 08:58:24 am ---
--- Quote from: gnuarm on August 22, 2022, 08:44:54 am ---Why are you being so petty? I was simply trying to make a point with sarcasm. So many people from the UK have such a defeatist attitude about BEVs. It makes me wonder how the UK ever got anything done. There has to be someone in the UK that can figure it out. I guess it will take a while to find that one person.
--- End quote ---
I think you're being a little unfair to the UK, frankly. I would argue the US is more opposed to electric vehicles with their obsession over massive trucks/SUVs, driving to places that most people walk/cycle to and insistence that a vehicle is impractical unless it can drive 1,000 miles in a day non stop.
--- End quote ---
I hear you. As I tried to explain, I am trying to be sarcastic, really. I have much respect for the nation that fought Hitler in WWII, built the first real computer, and has made so many contributions to mankind. I'm trying to point out how opposite to the true UK nature this defeatist attitude is.
--- Quote ---PR is a small territory, you can easily cross from one side to another on a single charge with almost every EV made today, so your view of how accepted electric vehicles are may be influenced by that.
--- End quote ---
I could drive from anywhere on the island to anywhere on the island and back on a single charge... but that doesn't make BEVs practical in Puerto Rico. There are almost no places to charge other than at home and there are very few BEVs. I do see a few Teslas from time to time.
--- Quote ---The UK has a well-developed charging network, a large number of charging companies based in the UK which have expanded into Europe, and equipment manufacturers and suppliers. We have a factory that is supposed to be building new EV batteries (we'll see if it takes off), Nissan makes the Leaf for Europe & UK here, the plug-in hybrid-electric London taxi (100km all electric range) is made in Birmingham, UK and we've got a few EV startups too (ARRIVAL is the big one having recently won a contract to supply Royal Mail with custom built EV vans.)
--- End quote ---
100 km is pretty lame range, even for a city car. I don't know how many miles a day a taxi drives, well, km then, but 100 km is only 60 miles and that's not much for any sort of working vehicle, even if you charge at lunch. We'll see if it is successful.
--- Quote ---Engineers in general, which is predominantly the membership base of this forum, seem to have a very luddite-like view of the world and seem to be very opposed to change.
--- End quote ---
Not this one. I did think cell phones were a bit pointless (ok, one wrong) and even thought smart phones were not important until I got my Tesla and the Tesla app was important (ok, two wrong). But I have always wanted an electric car since day one! I watched Tesla for a couple of years and finally bought an X about the time the 3 was getting into production. It was sort of my retirement present for myself. Now I just need to retire.
--- Quote ---This is not just in relation to EVs, it's things like smartphones, "the cloud", heck I've even seen an argument here where a chap was insistent that his Ni-Cad drill was better than a new Li-Ion one because he can leave the battery at 0% for a year and it'll still work. Never mind the fact it can do half the torque and half the work before going flat.
--- End quote ---
Is that true about NiCads? I thought they had high current output, which is why they were preferred over NiMH, which are dogs in power tools. I replaced alkalines in a model boat with NiCd and it took off like a scalded cat!
--- Quote ---Of the EE friends I know, only about two or three are actively interested in electric vehicles. Most are on the fence and a few are opposed in similar ways to several of the posters might be here.
I imagine it will begin to shift over time, nothing changes overnight.
--- End quote ---
I don't actually recommend for anyone to buy a BEV now. I say, don't buy anything other than a Tesla... and don't buy a Tesla. I think they will ripen a lot in a few more years. Not that they aren't useful in the meantime. I just think most people will not like the few inconveniences, which will be improved upon in short order. They have already increased the range significantly over the last five years. Give them five more and you will see 400 mile range for $30,000.
My use case is actually pathological for my model X. I barely use the thing around home, then I drive 125 miles each way every two weeks. This is just under the range of the car now that it has some wear, so I always have to stop to charge, somewhere along the route, even if just for five minutes. I usually combine it with picking up some carry out. So win/win!
I also charge on a 120V, 1.4 kW outlet. lol
tom66:
--- Quote from: gnuarm on August 22, 2022, 09:25:13 am ---100 km is pretty lame range, even for a city car. I don't know how many miles a day a taxi drives, well, km then, but 100 km is only 60 miles and that's not much for any sort of working vehicle, even if you charge at lunch. We'll see if it is successful.
--- End quote ---
It's not a bad compromise tbh... Most of the taxis spend their time tootling around in city traffic where average speeds of 8 mph mean you're doing well. So they can easily run till lunch. The petrol engine then gets them any fares to the airport and back.
But I think long term something like a 200mi / 300km all electric taxi will make the most sense. PHEVs are training wheels for real EVs :)
As for Ni-Cads, no doubt at all that a Li-Ion power tool battery will outperform on current output. My drill battery is fist sized and can do 30 amps without cutting out, at 18V. That's over 500W peak power. You are not getting that from Ni-Cads.
Miyuki:
--- Quote from: tom66 on August 22, 2022, 09:34:48 am ---
--- Quote from: gnuarm on August 22, 2022, 09:25:13 am ---100 km is pretty lame range, even for a city car. I don't know how many miles a day a taxi drives, well, km then, but 100 km is only 60 miles and that's not much for any sort of working vehicle, even if you charge at lunch. We'll see if it is successful.
--- End quote ---
It's not a bad compromise tbh... Most of the taxis spend their time tootling around in city traffic where average speeds of 8 mph mean you're doing well. So they can easily run till lunch. The petrol engine then gets them any fares to the airport and back.
But I think long term something like a 200mi / 300km all electric taxi will make the most sense. PHEVs are training wheels for real EVs :)
As for Ni-Cads, no doubt at all that a Li-Ion power tool battery will outperform on current output. My drill battery is fist sized and can do 30 amps without cutting out, at 18V. That's over 500W peak power. You are not getting that from Ni-Cads.
--- End quote ---
Looking at the average value for Prague (a decent size city) average taxi (and all uber, bolt ...) are 180-220 km a working day
Monkeh:
--- Quote from: EEVblog on August 22, 2022, 05:07:53 am ---In my case it's now been 24 months owning an EV and it's done 32,000km.
An ICE car at say 8L/100km would use 1280 litres/year and at say $1.80/L that would cost me about $2300 in petrol per year. 10 years is $23,000, not including inflation related or oil market related cost increases of petrol, or maintenance. Not including reduction in home electricity cost. And I agree it's a given that the cost of petrol is very unlikely to drop.
EV's (and solar), from financial perspective are about paying a lot more up front now, for less ongoing cost in the future. But then you also have to factor in the desired longevity of the car and possble battery refurbishment costs.
--- End quote ---
Now consider I get 30-60% better fuel economy than those figures, at half the mileage or less, and have significantly less solar generation. Oh, and the insurance would probably triple, although I haven't checked on that. Someone will be along shortly to say I'd pay less tax, as if £20 a year matters.
You'll forgive me for declining to go into debt to get a vehicle which will not pay back the loan any time soon.
tom66:
The insurance on my 204 hp Golf PHEV was less than my 90 hp Peugeot 206 HDi diesel.
It turns out the insurance profile of EV and PHEV drivers (Tesla probably excepted) is "boring old guy who likes efficiency". There are few better categories as far as insurers are concerned.
Navigation
[0] Message Index
[#] Next page
[*] Previous page
Go to full version