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Confused about PHEV, Hybrids, etc...

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bdunham7:

--- Quote from: gnuarm on August 22, 2022, 11:12:25 pm --- I'm simply pointing out that they are completely unrelated to the process of converting to BEVs.  The two are not related.

--- End quote ---

And we're pointing out that you are simply completely wrong on that matter and you've made no credible arguments to support your opinion.  If I drive to work and back in a PHEV and the commute is entirely within it's EV range (the ICE never starts), how does that differ driving a BEV on the same trip?

bdunham7:

--- Quote from: nctnico on August 22, 2022, 11:25:56 pm ---The battery pack will be extra weight you drag around making the ICE more inefficient. IMHO having a PHEV with relatively large batteries makes most sense if a significant part of what you are driving can be done using the batteries AND if you have a cheap source for charging. Otherwise it is not worth having the larger batteries. If you care about cost then it certainly is good to fill in a spreadsheet to calculate optimal TCO.

--- End quote ---

I think that the ability to recapture braking energy will outweigh any weight concerns in almost all but the most extreme corner cases, even compared to a smaller battery. (small batteries have limited regen absorption capability) PHEVs are typically a bit on the expensive side, so I won't make any cost arguments, but in my view the ideal use case is when your daily driving can be done with all or mostly battery power and the ICE is reserved for longer trips.  There are quite a few Chevy Volt owners that have been doing this for years and many of them get by with very low gasoline usage.  There are quite a few PHEVs now with 25-40 mile EV ranges.

Cerebus:

--- Quote from: bdunham7 on August 23, 2022, 12:08:46 am ---I think that the ability to recapture braking energy will outweigh any weight concerns in almost all but the most extreme corner cases, even compared to a smaller battery.

--- End quote ---

On that note I was quite surprised by my PHEV when I took a trip to the coast from London recently. Used up pretty much all the battery capacity getting out of the East End and onto the main roads (Dual carriageway and motorway) and the petrol engine kicks in. Stuck it into Eco mode, which takes advantage of coasting to minimise fuel use and regen on any downhill runs to charge the battery (and uses satnav data to plan it all to boot).  Came off the motorway some 60 odd miles later and the battery was back at over 95% capacity. Watching the gauges on some of the downhill sections of motorway I could see it charging at over 20 kW for several minutes on several occasions while still maintaining 60-70 mph - I was quite taken aback. The strangest thing was watching the "estimated combined range remaining" gauge continuously climbing on the whole outbound journey as it both recalculated based on motorway driving versus the city driving it had been doing for a few days previously and on the fact that it was actively recharging itself from regeneration. Got about 80 mpg on the way out (Full fat British gallons, not US gallonettes).

Edit: On a seperate note, I've used 2 litres of petrol since 27th July, covering 127 miles of purely local city driving which shows quite how often my PHEV finds itself operating effectively as a BEV.

nctnico:

--- Quote from: bdunham7 on August 23, 2022, 12:08:46 am ---
--- Quote from: nctnico on August 22, 2022, 11:25:56 pm ---The battery pack will be extra weight you drag around making the ICE more inefficient. IMHO having a PHEV with relatively large batteries makes most sense if a significant part of what you are driving can be done using the batteries AND if you have a cheap source for charging. Otherwise it is not worth having the larger batteries. If you care about cost then it certainly is good to fill in a spreadsheet to calculate optimal TCO.

--- End quote ---

I think that the ability to recapture braking energy will outweigh any weight concerns in almost all but the most extreme corner cases, even compared to a smaller battery. (small batteries have limited regen absorption capability) PHEVs are typically a bit on the expensive side, so I won't make any cost arguments, but in my view the ideal use case is when your daily driving can be done with all or mostly battery power and the ICE is reserved for longer trips.  There are quite a few Chevy Volt owners that have been doing this for years and many of them get by with very low gasoline usage.  There are quite a few PHEVs now with 25-40 mile EV ranges.

--- End quote ---
Well, I was reacting to 'long range PHEVs'. In my mind you start to get into ranges around 160miles (say 100km to 200km) which would require a much larger battery pack. Ofcourse with cheaper / high energy per weight batteries in the future, the equation changes but we aren't there yet. Feature creep is the enemy of any good product.

gnuarm:

--- Quote from: sokoloff on August 22, 2022, 11:38:07 pm ---
--- Quote from: gnuarm on August 22, 2022, 11:12:25 pm ---I'm simply pointing out that [PHEVs] are completely unrelated to the process of converting to BEVs.  The two are not related.
--- End quote ---
In order for EVs to be bought, they have to be considered. In order for them to be considered, they have to have awareness.

I know many people who now have a BEV as a result of them or a friend having bought a PHEV (Volts in this case) and realizing “hey, that plug-in thing is pretty cool!”

I can’t help but see that chain of human awareness to consideration to purchase as being part of the adoption path from pure ICE to BEVs.

--- End quote ---

Interesting concept, but what makes you think there are and will continue to be more PHEVs than BEVs?  I believe the same process will be triggered by neighbors seeing new BEVs in driveways, but much moreso. 

I can't see someone buying a PHEV, actually having much impact on the sales of BEVs when the two are so different.  You don't put gas in a BEV... at all. 

Besides, at this point, you would be hard pressed to find someone who is not aware of BEVs. 

PHEVs are not useful to promotion of BEVs and mostly won't hinder it since they are so different.  Bottom line is, BEVs are happening, and there's not much that will have any real impact on it.  So lead, follow, or get out of the way!

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