General > General Technical Chat
Confused about PHEV, Hybrids, etc...
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gnuarm:

--- Quote from: Cerebus on August 22, 2022, 11:39:58 pm ---
--- Quote from: bdunham7 on August 22, 2022, 10:49:26 pm ---
--- Quote from: sokoloff on August 22, 2022, 09:46:55 pm ---Our daily drivers right now are a BEV and an ICE. When it comes time to replace the ICE, we're almost surely going to replace it with a used PHEV, for the flexibility reasons listed above.

--- End quote ---

Same here.  I don't understand how combining the features of a BEV and ICE/hybrid into a long-range PHEV make it somehow worse than a separate BEV and ICE.

--- End quote ---

Well, if you're thinking like an engineer then the combination allows you to take advantage of the best qualities of both, at the cost of some increased complexity. Of course if you've caught religion, then you'll battle for your corner while disparaging the other corner and burn any heretics who think there might be a middle ground between the two. It doesn't matter whether the religion in question is mainstream "Petrolhead" or mainstream "BEV" or a small spinoff sect like Tesla drivers, they all hate heretics.

--- End quote ---

So the "best" qualities include higher pollution of ICE, higher fuel costs of ICE, the regular maintenance of ICE, and the highest complication of any of the three. 

Hybrids were an idea from 20 years ago before BEVs were practical.  BEVs are a much better solution today and will continue to improve over the next 20 years at least.  There is so little down side to BEVs that it's a slam dunk!  What downsides they have, will be highly mitigated over the next few years as every automaker produces millions.  Well, every automaker who plans to stay in business.
gnuarm:

--- Quote from: bdunham7 on August 23, 2022, 12:01:33 am ---
--- Quote from: gnuarm on August 22, 2022, 11:12:25 pm --- I'm simply pointing out that they are completely unrelated to the process of converting to BEVs.  The two are not related.

--- End quote ---

And we're pointing out that you are simply completely wrong on that matter and you've made no credible arguments to support your opinion.  If I drive to work and back in a PHEV and the commute is entirely within it's EV range (the ICE never starts), how does that differ driving a BEV on the same trip?

--- End quote ---

That's not the issue.  You driving a PHEV does nothing to impact the adoption of BEVs.  Isn't that what I said? 

How do you think your driving a PHEV is impacting the adoption of BEVs?
tom66:
I wouldn't have considered a BEV if I hadn't driven a PHEV beforehand.  Sorry, you're just wrong about this.   I frequent a UK focused EV forum and every poster I've seen who has traded in their PHEV has *either* got a BEV or a newer PHEV, but the majority are getting BEVs.  It's clearly working.  Once you drive electric, you never want to go back.
 
And as for public charging, I make use of 3kW public chargers all the time.  Go to the supermarket, 45 minutes shopping and the car has gained all the range it used for the drive there.  OK it's "nothing" on the grand scale of things (6-7 miles added range) but it changes your view of how you use a vehicle.  And the supermarket doesn't charge for electricity so it makes it a very cheap drive indeed.

@nctnico:  plugs on hybrids only make sense if the battery is a usable capacity IMO.  So a 1.6kWh Prius battery is not really worth charging, especially because the car can only use about 800Wh of that.
Cerebus:

--- Quote from: gnuarm on August 23, 2022, 02:15:30 am ---
--- Quote from: Cerebus on August 22, 2022, 11:39:58 pm ---
--- Quote from: bdunham7 on August 22, 2022, 10:49:26 pm ---
--- Quote from: sokoloff on August 22, 2022, 09:46:55 pm ---Our daily drivers right now are a BEV and an ICE. When it comes time to replace the ICE, we're almost surely going to replace it with a used PHEV, for the flexibility reasons listed above.

--- End quote ---

Same here.  I don't understand how combining the features of a BEV and ICE/hybrid into a long-range PHEV make it somehow worse than a separate BEV and ICE.

--- End quote ---

Well, if you're thinking like an engineer then the combination allows you to take advantage of the best qualities of both, at the cost of some increased complexity. Of course if you've caught religion, then you'll battle for your corner while disparaging the other corner and burn any heretics who think there might be a middle ground between the two. It doesn't matter whether the religion in question is mainstream "Petrolhead" or mainstream "BEV" or a small spinoff sect like Tesla drivers, they all hate heretics.

--- End quote ---

So the "best" qualities include higher pollution of ICE, higher fuel costs of ICE, the regular maintenance of ICE, and the highest complication of any of the three. 

Hybrids were an idea from 20 years ago before BEVs were practical.  BEVs are a much better solution today and will continue to improve over the next 20 years at least.  There is so little down side to BEVs that it's a slam dunk!  What downsides they have, will be highly mitigated over the next few years as every automaker produces millions.  Well, every automaker who plans to stay in business.

--- End quote ---

There's little point arguing with a religious zealot. You pick what suits your belief system and quietly ignore the rest. Your reply is no different to a petrol zealot answering with "So the 'best' qualities include running out of battery and waiting ages to charge it".
tszaboo:

--- Quote from: tom66 on August 23, 2022, 07:49:51 am ---I wouldn't have considered a BEV if I hadn't driven a PHEV beforehand.  Sorry, you're just wrong about this.   I frequent a UK focused EV forum and every poster I've seen who has traded in their PHEV has *either* got a BEV or a newer PHEV, but the majority are getting BEVs.  It's clearly working.  Once you drive electric, you never want to go back.
 
And as for public charging, I make use of 3kW public chargers all the time.  Go to the supermarket, 45 minutes shopping and the car has gained all the range it used for the drive there.  OK it's "nothing" on the grand scale of things (6-7 miles added range) but it changes your view of how you use a vehicle.  And the supermarket doesn't charge for electricity so it makes it a very cheap drive indeed.

@nctnico:  plugs on hybrids only make sense if the battery is a usable capacity IMO.  So a 1.6kWh Prius battery is not really worth charging, especially because the car can only use about 800Wh of that.

--- End quote ---
Yeah, that 1.6 KWh battery is also there to drive the engine in a more efficient way, not just breaking.
I've been thinking about replacing my Prius with a PHEV, because I could cover the daily commute with electricity. Too bad this government doesn't think anymore that PHEVs should be supported, instead they add extra tax because of the extra weight, and no matter how I calculate, it wouldn't make financial sense.
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