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| Confused about PHEV, Hybrids, etc... |
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| tom66:
The biggest problem with PHEVs is they are impossible to tax and incentivise correctly, at least if you still have regular petrol hybrids. The UK government gave people incentives to get PHEVs about 10 years ago and a great deal of these were bought but never charged - it became a bit of a scandal. Thing is, company car drivers were able to expense all of their miles when evidenced with petrol receipts, but home charging was only permitted at 4p/mile, which meant if you didn't have an off-peak tariff and a smart meter, you'd lose money. Even if you did have an off-peak tariff you were still incentivised to use petrol because the whole cost was guaranteed to be covered so the numerically illiterate would never worry. This was known for years and indeed certain vehicles like the Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV became known as "Taxlanders" as these cars were just being used as inefficient petrol SUVs. I know my car was used in this way: prior owner was a leasing company, leased to someone in Salisbury, UK. The car had used its charging port a total of 25 times, despite being driven over 45,000 miles before I acquired it. So it was pretty much all petrol usage for that time. In one sense, really good for the battery lifespan, to sit at 30% all the time... The secondary issue is if you have low/zero air pollution zones how can you really allow PHEVs into that - there is no way to know externally if the car is running electric or petrol. In that sense BEVs are far better because it's *impossible to use them inefficiently*, within reason. |
| sokoloff:
4p/mile for electric seems like just plain bad policy all around. Tires alone are probably close to 2p/mile. It seems to me like "the simplest thing that could possibly work" would have been way better here. Give whatever per-mile rate is decided to be "close enough" for everyone and then let owners optimize for their own costs however they see fit. Aligns incentives. For Zero emission zones, fine and ticket vehicles discovered to be running their engines in those zones. It doesn't have to be 100.000% perfect to be workable. |
| gnuarm:
--- Quote from: tom66 on August 23, 2022, 07:49:51 am ---I wouldn't have considered a BEV if I hadn't driven a PHEV beforehand. Sorry, you're just wrong about this. --- End quote --- Yes, I should have checked and found you are the authoritative source on such information. The million or so Tesla owners in the US who have never owned anything other than an ICE must all be mistaken. --- Quote ---I frequent a UK focused EV forum and every poster I've seen who has traded in their PHEV has *either* got a BEV or a newer PHEV, but the majority are getting BEVs. It's clearly working. Once you drive electric, you never want to go back. --- End quote --- Your logic is failing you. Please consult any book on logic to see why. --- Quote ---And as for public charging, I make use of 3kW public chargers all the time. Go to the supermarket, 45 minutes shopping and the car has gained all the range it used for the drive there. OK it's "nothing" on the grand scale of things (6-7 miles added range) but it changes your view of how you use a vehicle. And the supermarket doesn't charge for electricity so it makes it a very cheap drive indeed. --- End quote --- You can learn many things, from many events including talking to BEV owners. That doesn't make a PHEV a "bridge" to BEVs. They are different animals and are not much like owning a BEV. |
| tom66:
|O |
| gnuarm:
--- Quote from: Cerebus on August 23, 2022, 12:49:06 pm --- --- Quote from: gnuarm on August 23, 2022, 02:15:30 am --- --- Quote from: Cerebus on August 22, 2022, 11:39:58 pm --- --- Quote from: bdunham7 on August 22, 2022, 10:49:26 pm --- --- Quote from: sokoloff on August 22, 2022, 09:46:55 pm ---Our daily drivers right now are a BEV and an ICE. When it comes time to replace the ICE, we're almost surely going to replace it with a used PHEV, for the flexibility reasons listed above. --- End quote --- Same here. I don't understand how combining the features of a BEV and ICE/hybrid into a long-range PHEV make it somehow worse than a separate BEV and ICE. --- End quote --- Well, if you're thinking like an engineer then the combination allows you to take advantage of the best qualities of both, at the cost of some increased complexity. Of course if you've caught religion, then you'll battle for your corner while disparaging the other corner and burn any heretics who think there might be a middle ground between the two. It doesn't matter whether the religion in question is mainstream "Petrolhead" or mainstream "BEV" or a small spinoff sect like Tesla drivers, they all hate heretics. --- End quote --- So the "best" qualities include higher pollution of ICE, higher fuel costs of ICE, the regular maintenance of ICE, and the highest complication of any of the three. Hybrids were an idea from 20 years ago before BEVs were practical. BEVs are a much better solution today and will continue to improve over the next 20 years at least. There is so little down side to BEVs that it's a slam dunk! What downsides they have, will be highly mitigated over the next few years as every automaker produces millions. Well, every automaker who plans to stay in business. --- End quote --- There's little point arguing with a religious zealot. You pick what suits your belief system and quietly ignore the rest. Your reply is no different to a petrol zealot answering with "So the 'best' qualities include running out of battery and waiting ages to charge it". --- End quote --- When the facts can no longer be argued, some resort to ad hominem. Ok. |
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