General > General Technical Chat
Confused about PHEV, Hybrids, etc...
tom66:
I do think the 0-2% BIK on company BEVs will do wonders for the post-leasing used market, but aside from Tesla, there were very few competitive EVs available until about 2019 or so. The first of those (ID.3, iPace, Polestar 2, newer Leaf, maybe e-208/Corsa-e) will be coming to the end of their lease this year and next. Unfortunately right in the middle of a shortage of new cars, so the leasing companies will make bank and we'll have to wait another year or two for the prices to drop.
My Golf GTE cost half as much at 3 years old as it did new, and now coming on for 6.5 years old, I can buy a similar model for just £1k less, the used car market (especially for anything electric, hybrid or not) is insane right now.
Cerebus:
--- Quote from: pcprogrammer on August 24, 2022, 11:20:19 am ---About the new rules, the public will learn when they violate them. And that brings money into the treasury. Win win for the government :-DD
--- End quote ---
I'll digress for a bit and explain the rôle of the UK Highway Code, and you'll see that particular, understandably cynical, view of the situation doesn't actually pan out. The Highway Code has, currently, 310 "rules". Some of them have the force of law and those laws could attract penalties if broken e.g. you must stop at a red traffic light. Those rules use the the word MUST in bold capitals to mark them out. Many of the rules are codified common sense: Rule 304 - "Look out for pedestrians, especially children, running to catch a tram approaching a stop.", and the rest mostly tell road users what to expect from each other often accompanied by the wording "you should". Those rules don't have the force of law but disregarding them may be used in court to adduce evidence of offences such as careless or dangerous driving.
The new changes are all in the "you should" category. Remember, these are the rules that you won't be automatically prosecuted if you'er seen 'breaking' them. The ones that have the most impact are surrounding where and when you should give way to pedestrians or cyclists, affording them more priority than in previous versions of the rules. In particular part of the new rule H2 says "At a junction you should give way to pedestrians crossing or waiting to cross a road into which or from which you are turning.". Previous custom and practice was that if a vehicle wanted to turn into a side road and pedestrians were waiting to cross, the vehicle would go first and then the pedestrians would cross afterward. Under the new rule in the same circumstances you should stop and wait to turn into the road and let the pedestrians cross. Perfectly sensible, perfectly reasonable, easy to learn to do. I now do that. As a consequence I frequently get drivers behind me who don't realise why I've stopped, honk a horn for me to get moving, and all because they don't know about the new rules and assume I'm a dullard, not a conscientious driver.
Also the pedestrians don't know the new rules, and often don't cross the road when a vehicle has stopped for them, leading to vehicles working to the new rules stopping to give way, waiting for pedestrians who don't move, and eventually driving off again with the pedestrians still standing there. Or possibly waiting, and then starting to move as the pedestrians also finally decide to move.
The lack of publicity for the new rules has, rather than made pedestrians safer, put them at more risk, increased congestion, and set the seeds for some road rage incidents with uninformed drivers. Good intention - "make pedestrians safer", unintended outcomes - as outlined above. I can only describe it as "pathetic incompetence".
gnuarm:
--- Quote from: Miyuki on August 24, 2022, 10:44:57 am ---All this tax-free BEV is BS
I know it is meant to support its adoption
But it has no logical reason, it uses the same roads and presents that same danger to the public (it is still 2 ton metal box on wheels)
But with the current BEV position on the market when it is in Luxury or at least the top of the menu
It is just a support for the wealthy portion of the population
And with wider adoption, they will have to increase taxes anyway because there will be only a few ICE to tax and governments need this huge tax revenue
--- End quote ---
What does that mean, "tax-free BEV"? I pay plenty of tax on my BEV.
EEVblog:
--- Quote from: gnuarm on August 25, 2022, 03:30:20 am ---
--- Quote from: Miyuki on August 24, 2022, 10:44:57 am ---All this tax-free BEV is BS
I know it is meant to support its adoption
But it has no logical reason, it uses the same roads and presents that same danger to the public (it is still 2 ton metal box on wheels)
But with the current BEV position on the market when it is in Luxury or at least the top of the menu
It is just a support for the wealthy portion of the population
And with wider adoption, they will have to increase taxes anyway because there will be only a few ICE to tax and governments need this huge tax revenue
--- End quote ---
What does that mean, "tax-free BEV"? I pay plenty of tax on my BEV.
--- End quote ---
A lot of countries, and states within countries, have low tax or no tax incentives to buy EV's. They might even give cash grants. You know, all this net-zero stuff.
Similar with solar which is why uptake exploded here in Australia when the subsidies and feed-in tarrifs were announced.
gnuarm:
--- Quote from: EEVblog on September 06, 2022, 11:41:16 pm ---
--- Quote from: gnuarm on August 25, 2022, 03:30:20 am ---
--- Quote from: Miyuki on August 24, 2022, 10:44:57 am ---All this tax-free BEV is BS
I know it is meant to support its adoption
But it has no logical reason, it uses the same roads and presents that same danger to the public (it is still 2 ton metal box on wheels)
But with the current BEV position on the market when it is in Luxury or at least the top of the menu
It is just a support for the wealthy portion of the population
And with wider adoption, they will have to increase taxes anyway because there will be only a few ICE to tax and governments need this huge tax revenue
--- End quote ---
What does that mean, "tax-free BEV"? I pay plenty of tax on my BEV.
--- End quote ---
A lot of countries, and states within countries, have low tax or no tax incentives to buy EV's. They might even give cash grants. You know, all this net-zero stuff.
Similar with solar which is why uptake exploded here in Australia when the subsidies and feed-in tarrifs were announced.
--- End quote ---
I don't know what countries they would be. Do you? Can you name any?
I bought my BEV in 2018 and had to pay $2,000 to the county. The state had a BEV only tax of $150 or so when I registered it. Not every state has a special BEV tax, but many do. I know of none that let you out of the taxes you pay on other, personal vehicles.
There are incentives that are provided through the federal and state taxes, typically. That's not the same as "tax free". It's a one time incentive.
I agree the incentives are no longer needed. The US incentives had a cap of 200k cars per company. I'm ok with leaving that in place, but there's no point in giving GM or Tesla further incentives. The point was to help companies over the hump. Tesla is well over the hump at this point, don't you think?
I think we can still do well with incentives for residential solar. But it won't mean much if you can't sell it to the utility. Some states had laws about net use metering, but after some years repealed it leaving solar owners high and dry. If they built more capacity than they can use during the day, with the expectation it would be useful to the utility, it is wasted to the owner now they are getting NOTHING in return. Many have just shut off feeding the grid.
My house in Virginia is SW facing, so perfect for solar. I won't be installing anything until there are some regulations in place that control what happens. My utility won't allow ToU to be combined with selling power to the grid. It would mean I might be paid more than I use, not because of the kWh, but because the peak rates are 10x the off peak rates! I don't have to generate much electricity to recover my costs at those numbers.
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