General > General Technical Chat
Confused about PHEV, Hybrids, etc...
Cerebus:
One can always find edge cases where climate or terrain will defeat cyclists, or at least mass adoption of cycling, but most towns and cites are built in river valleys, river basins, rivers deltas or coastal plains precisely because that's where you find a climate and terrain that's best for people, building and transport.
The majority of places where the majority of people live are geographically well suited in terms of climate and terrain to cycling as practical everyday transport. Most of the barriers aren't natural but man made, often made that way because of the assumption of motorised transport as the primary way of accessing facilities and employment. e.g. I've just made a 14 mile (22 km) round trip in the car to the 'local' waste and recycling facility with a load of things that the council won't collect, and that load would have been impractical to take on a bicycle as well as a bit of a slog.
gnuarm:
--- Quote from: tszaboo on August 01, 2022, 10:24:04 am ---
--- Quote from: Cerebus on July 31, 2022, 09:15:44 pm ---
--- Quote from: gnuarm on July 31, 2022, 08:59:07 pm ---
--- Quote ---A BEV needs 200Wh per km as a year round average when it is not used as a inner city roundabout (which could easely be replaced by a much more efficient electric bike).
--- End quote ---
LOL!!! I want to see your population on bikes. People here don't like being rained or snowed on.
--- End quote ---
Nctnico is talking about the Netherlands which is famous around the world for the amount of cycling done there, except apparently in your neck of the woods. They have 1.3 bicycles for every human being and 27% of all journeys are made by bike.
--- End quote ---
Its more of a situation with the current electricity prices. Right now I got a contract at 0.4 EUR/KWh. Considering an electric car uses 22KWh for 100 KM, this is 8.8EUR in electricity. A hybrid would have let's say 4.5L fuel usage, resulting about ~10 EUR for the same trip, since fuel costs somewhere around 2.2EUR/L.
I think right now it's probably cheaper to run your house from a diesel generator than to pay for these absolutely ridiculous electricity prices. I cannot wait for the gov. to drop the hammer on these companies because for sure they are price gauging the situation. If I wouldn't have my solar panels I would be absolutely upset.
--- End quote ---
It should be easy enough to tell. In the US such utilities are required to release their financials. In fact, in most places in the US, utilities must have their rates approved. Sometime 20 years ago or so, they were allowed to include a variable for fuel costs. Again, with public disclosure of costs.
gnuarm:
--- Quote from: tszaboo on August 01, 2022, 10:24:04 am ---
--- Quote from: Cerebus on July 31, 2022, 09:15:44 pm ---
--- Quote from: gnuarm on July 31, 2022, 08:59:07 pm ---
--- Quote ---A BEV needs 200Wh per km as a year round average when it is not used as a inner city roundabout (which could easely be replaced by a much more efficient electric bike).
--- End quote ---
LOL!!! I want to see your population on bikes. People here don't like being rained or snowed on.
--- End quote ---
Nctnico is talking about the Netherlands which is famous around the world for the amount of cycling done there, except apparently in your neck of the woods. They have 1.3 bicycles for every human being and 27% of all journeys are made by bike.
--- End quote ---
Its more of a situation with the current electricity prices. Right now I got a contract at 0.4 EUR/KWh. Considering an electric car uses 22KWh for 100 KM, this is 8.8EUR in electricity. A hybrid would have let's say 4.5L fuel usage, resulting about ~10 EUR for the same trip, since fuel costs somewhere around 2.2EUR/L.
I think right now it's probably cheaper to run your house from a diesel generator than to pay for these absolutely ridiculous electricity prices. I cannot wait for the gov. to drop the hammer on these companies because for sure they are price gauging the situation. If I wouldn't have my solar panels I would be absolutely upset.
--- End quote ---
I think your numbers are faulty. 22 kWh/100 km is around 350 Wh/mi. That is a high average consumption, even for my model X which is the BEV equivalent of the US family station wagon (now it's a van or large SUV). Most BEVs are more in the 4-5 mi/kWhr, 200-250 Wh/mi. Try your calculations with those numbers.
gnuarm:
--- Quote from: Miyuki on August 01, 2022, 12:13:07 pm ---Cycling is a good option for people living in dense areas with flat terrain and suitable weather. So it is naturally limited to just a small percentage of big cities.
--- Quote from: bdunham7 on July 31, 2022, 04:29:10 pm ---Another non-trivial issue--our BEV just had its battery replaced under warranty 7.5 years into an 8 year warranty. If the problem (leak) had occurred at 8.5 years, I'd likely be burning gas as well at this point.
--- End quote ---
It is another elephant in the room of this industry. As all car industry is heavily anti-repair, EV offered them a great weapon to make repair "impossible" (they prohibit it even when it is in most cases a simple repair that can be done by any equipped repair shop)
Minor issues like this, some small seal leak or faulty cell will render the whole car a brick.
Same as is now a big battle about if you can choose what repair facility you use for your car.
--- End quote ---
Wow! You like to change the goal posts. How many examples of this can you find?
--- Quote ---
--- Quote from: gnuarm on July 31, 2022, 09:04:59 pm ---
--- Quote ---But look at it another way. Battery manufacturing capacity is not unlimited. If you can choose to build 1 BEV and save 100% emissions of one car, or build 30 hybrid, and save 30% emissions of 30 cars, which one is better?
--- End quote ---
A false dilemma. We will build all the BEVs we want as people adopt them. Presenting false arguments do not help. Carbon emissions is a long term game. We will be supplying half the US auto production as BEVs in just five years. I can't say what people will do who believe hybrids are the way forward.
--- End quote ---
No, you won't have 50% of BEV in 5 years. There is no way to ramp battery production this fast and source raw materials for it.
The only possibility is to artificially limit the number of new cars sold. And I do not see it will pass an angry mob.
--- End quote ---
You can make any claims you want. We will see.
--- Quote ---Plus of course, governments will have to slowly bring all the taxes they pose on "conventional cars" to EVs as it is a huge part of their revenue and it cannot go down
--- End quote ---
"Huge"... really? Again, you have no numbers for what constitutes "huge". What difference if you pay the tax at the gas pump or through a direct tax? You are really reaching. A clear sign of desperation.
gnuarm:
--- Quote from: bdunham7 on August 01, 2022, 02:25:25 pm ---
--- Quote from: tszaboo on August 01, 2022, 10:24:04 am ---Considering an electric car uses 22KWh for 100 KM, this is 8.8EUR in electricity.
--- End quote ---
This is the next issue--some manufacturers have emphasized efficiency to increase range, others just bolt on ever-larger batteries to their luxobarges. An efficient BEV should be <15kWh/100km and I don't mean less-than-car alternatives.
--- End quote ---
So which BEVs can't attain 15kWh/100km? Mine is one, it gets more like 300 Wh/mi (19 kWh/100 km), but it is an outlier because it is a large luxury car.
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