General > General Technical Chat

Confused about PHEV, Hybrids, etc...

<< < (17/93) > >>

Miyuki:

--- Quote from: gnuarm on August 01, 2022, 09:07:29 pm ---
--- Quote from: tszaboo on August 01, 2022, 10:24:04 am ---Its more of a situation with the current electricity prices. Right now I got a contract at 0.4 EUR/KWh. Considering an electric car uses 22KWh for 100 KM, this is 8.8EUR in electricity. A hybrid would have let's say 4.5L fuel usage, resulting about ~10 EUR for the same trip, since fuel costs somewhere around 2.2EUR/L.
I think right now it's probably cheaper to run your house from a diesel generator than to pay for these absolutely ridiculous electricity prices. I cannot wait for the gov. to drop the hammer on these companies because for sure they are price gauging the situation. If I wouldn't have my solar panels I would be absolutely upset.

--- End quote ---

I think your numbers are faulty.  22 kWh/100 km is around 350 Wh/mi.  That is a high average consumption, even for my model X which is the BEV equivalent of the US family station wagon (now it's a van or large SUV).   Most BEVs are more in the 4-5 mi/kWhr, 200-250 Wh/mi.  Try your calculations with those numbers.

--- End quote ---
I know "early" EVs from the 80s and 90s were around 20-25 kWh/100 km with lead acid batteries
And it was small cars like VW Golf

gnuarm:

--- Quote from: Miyuki on August 01, 2022, 09:21:06 pm ---
--- Quote from: gnuarm on August 01, 2022, 09:07:29 pm ---
--- Quote from: tszaboo on August 01, 2022, 10:24:04 am ---Its more of a situation with the current electricity prices. Right now I got a contract at 0.4 EUR/KWh. Considering an electric car uses 22KWh for 100 KM, this is 8.8EUR in electricity. A hybrid would have let's say 4.5L fuel usage, resulting about ~10 EUR for the same trip, since fuel costs somewhere around 2.2EUR/L.
I think right now it's probably cheaper to run your house from a diesel generator than to pay for these absolutely ridiculous electricity prices. I cannot wait for the gov. to drop the hammer on these companies because for sure they are price gauging the situation. If I wouldn't have my solar panels I would be absolutely upset.

--- End quote ---

I think your numbers are faulty.  22 kWh/100 km is around 350 Wh/mi.  That is a high average consumption, even for my model X which is the BEV equivalent of the US family station wagon (now it's a van or large SUV).   Most BEVs are more in the 4-5 mi/kWhr, 200-250 Wh/mi.  Try your calculations with those numbers.

--- End quote ---
I know "early" EVs from the 80s and 90s were around 20-25 kWh/100 km with lead acid batteries
And it was small cars like VW Golf

--- End quote ---

Like I said, faulty numbers.

bdunham7:

--- Quote from: gnuarm on August 01, 2022, 09:14:31 pm ---So which BEVs can't attain 15kWh/100km? 

--- End quote ---

Going by the window sticker figures and a bit of math, any of them that don't get at least a 139.6 MPG-E rating--which is actually most BEVs that aren't microcars.  The Hyundai Ioniq is an example of one that does make that rating @ 150MPG-E (city).  Our old Ford only has a 118 MPG-E rating (city) but it still has averaged 239 Wh/mile or 14.94 kWh/100kM in real life.  If you are really only using 300Wh/mile with your Model X, then you are well under the spec as well.

gnuarm:

--- Quote from: bdunham7 on August 01, 2022, 09:59:14 pm ---
--- Quote from: gnuarm on August 01, 2022, 09:14:31 pm ---So which BEVs can't attain 15kWh/100km? 

--- End quote ---

Going by the window sticker figures and a bit of math, any of them that don't get at least a 139.6 MPG-E rating--which is actually most BEVs that aren't microcars.  The Hyundai Ioniq is an example of one that does make that rating @ 150MPG-E (city).  Our old Ford only has a 118 MPG-E rating (city) but it still has averaged 239 Wh/mile or 14.94 kWh/100kM in real life.  If you are really only using 300Wh/mile with your Model X, then you are well under the spec as well.

--- End quote ---

I don't use the MPGe ratings because they are detached from reality.  They are used to try to compare BEVs to ICE, but not in a useful way and clearly with significant variations.

I obtain anywhere from 270 Wh/mi to 370 Wh/mi depending on how much I am abusing the performance of the car.  A typical number for my model X is between 300 Wh/mi and 330 Wh/mi depending on circumstances (mostly speed).  Turns out the mileage goes up quickly in heavy traffic because of the lower speeds, and the lack of significant penalty in stop and go type driving. 

The commonly accepted number for more common models 3 and Y are 250 Wh/mi. 

I have no interest in MPGe numbers because i never use them.  Why not calculate using furlongs per fortnight?

Ultimately what matters is cost and range.  Standard consumption numbers in Wh will give you both.  With MPGe it would be very difficult.   How many gallons does your BEV hold? 

bdunham7:

--- Quote from: gnuarm on August 01, 2022, 10:31:48 pm ---I don't use the MPGe ratings because they are detached from reality.  They are used to try to compare BEVs to ICE, but not in a useful way and clearly with significant variations...
...I have no interest in MPGe numbers because i never use them.  Why not calculate using furlongs per fortnight?

--- End quote ---

Because MPG-E numbers are what is listed on the window sticker, so that's all there is to go on for an apples-to-apples comparison between models.  And converting to Wh/mile or kWh/100kM is straightforward enough. 15kWh/100kM is 139.6 MPG-E.  Like any EPA ratings, YMMV.

Navigation

[0] Message Index

[#] Next page

[*] Previous page

There was an error while thanking
Thanking...
Go to full version
Powered by SMFPacks Advanced Attachments Uploader Mod