EEVblog Electronics Community Forum
General => General Technical Chat => Topic started by: Halcyon on March 18, 2019, 09:07:42 am
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Oh Clive...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n2ZZbuOeNmw (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n2ZZbuOeNmw)
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Yes, that was a remarkably sane video. No bangs, flames or explosions. It actually worked.
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The electrodes look like galvanized zinc, perfectly safe for human I guess as its used in food container too.
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That was a great video but I am a bit skeptical as to the definition of "cooked", instead they seemed to be simply electrocuted. I'm guessing that the 'hot dogs' were at least partially cooked beforehand if not it is just a machine designed to promote food poisoning. I do admire the engineering though... who would have speculated that electrocuting food could be a viable food preparation mechanism.
Well worth the watch.
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Similar devices were available in Oz, back in the mid 1960s.
Those used a Mains transformer with a lower voltage, high current secondary, to which was connected the spikes(from memory, they were stainless steel).
In practice, a complete hot dog & roll were impaled on the spikes.
The hot dog looked like a shorted turn to the transformer, high-ish current flowed (limited by the hot dog resistance), cooking the treat.
They weren't bad, from memory, the buns had two slightly charred holes in them, which was not aesthetically pleasing.
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"The power factor of a hotdog is exactly 1." :-DD
The fact that steam is coming out of them suggests internal temperatures high enough to cook meat. They cook from the inside-out, which is more efficient than the traditional method of conducted/radiant heat. That said, a lower voltage and longer cooking time would probably be better for more even cooking.
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Most if not all hot dogs are "precooked", so all one has to do is heat them up prior to eating.
Our family had one of these or something similar in the late 60's or early 70's. My memories of it are not all that fond. Electricity follows the path of least resistance, so not all hot dogs would heat up the same, and even on a given dog some parts would be drier/chewier than the rest. And then there was often an ungodly bad taste at the ends where arcing tended to occur at the pointed contacts.
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Most if not all hot dogs are "precooked", so all one has to do is heat them up prior to eating.
All hotdogs are shipped pre-cooked. All you're doing is reheating them for consumption.
Our family had one of these or something similar in the late 60's or early 70's. My memories of it are not all that fond. Electricity follows the path of least resistance, so not all hot dogs would heat up the same, and even on a given dog some parts would be drier/chewier than the rest. And then there was often an ungodly bad taste at the ends where arcing tended to occur at the pointed contacts.
We had one as well. It was sometime in the 70's from what I recall. Gave the hotdogs a weird flavor, like you, I never particularly cared for it. Plus if I recall correctly the hotdogs were "floppy" and hot with a weird interior texture, opposed to a normal hotdog cooked on a grill.
My parents probably still have it stashed somewhere in a drawer, if I go look. They never throw away anything.
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Are hot dogs typically canned in the UK? Usually in the US they're vacuum bagged, so not as soggy and limp, and they're usually a bit bigger, too. I would have expected that Clive's soggy scottish weiners would have made for higher power consumption, but maybe the smaller contact area due to the smaller diameter balanced that out--or maybe the salt content is lower?
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Are hot dogs typically canned in the UK? Usually in the US they're vacuum bagged, so not as soggy and limp, and they're usually a bit bigger, too. I would have expected that Clive's soggy scottish weiners would have made for higher power consumption, but maybe the smaller contact area due to the smaller diameter balanced that out--or maybe the salt content is lower?
Hot dogs in the UK are in the category of "last resort food item, stored in the pantry in case of emergencies". Thus, they come canned in brine, ready to heat and serve. To prepare them you tip them into a pan and simmer them in their brine until they are hot. Nobody eats them unless real sausages are not available.
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Hot dogs in the UK are in the category of "last resort food item, stored in the pantry in case of emergencies". Thus, they come canned in brine, ready to heat and serve. To prepare them you tip them into a pan and simmer them in their brine until they are hot. Nobody eats them unless real sausages are not available.
Sounds like another British delicacy, like Branston Pickle and Marmite. I'm surprised my wife doesn't have them in the cupboard.
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That was a great video but I am a bit skeptical as to the definition of "cooked", instead they seemed to be simply electrocuted. I'm guessing that the 'hot dogs' were at least partially cooked beforehand if not it is just a machine designed to promote food poisoning.
That's one of the cultural differences between the UK and the USA. In the USA all sausages I have seen are pre-cooked and just need heating. In the UK all sausages are made from raw meat and need thorough cooking before eating.
(Clive's hot dogs were canned and as with all canned goods are cooked and safe to eat right out of the can.)
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Fair warning. In the US sausages sold in supermarkets and the like are almost always precooked. Not so for products sold in butcher shops and other places where you might look for real food.
Your British hot dogs sound much like what is marketed in the US as Vienna sausage. Nasty, tiny canned sausages suitable only for preventing starvation. Or if your dog isn't very discerning to disguise the medicines you are wanting him to take.
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In Australia, what is used in the classic hotdog are/were "frankfurts" or "saveloys" .(The latter is slightly different, & the name seems to have fallen out of use)
They are "pre-cooked", to the extent that they are safe to eat "straight out of the shop".
In use, they are usually boiled, & slapped into a roll with toppings to the customer's choice.
When I was a kid, at Agricultural Shows (local & State Fairs in US speak), they were boiled "en masse" in what we used to call "coppers" (the large copper tub in which clothes were boiled back in the day).
These were becoming obsolete, but conveniently many had been set up with a heating fire in portable form, & were quickly repurposed by the hot dog vendors.
You could smell the cooking "dogs" all across the Showground.
I don't know what effect all that copper residue had on my generation, but we still seem to be around in droves! ;D
Normal sausages are always sold raw --- Vienna sausages are cooked, or somehow made safe for immediate eating.
Tinned sausages are available, but like tinned anything, are a reasonable snack, but that's it
In recent years, traditional "hot dogs" have come under strong challenge from the "sausage sizzle", where normal sausages are cooked on a grill or hot plate, & stuffed into a roll in the usual fashion.
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The electrodes look like galvanized zinc, perfectly safe for human I guess as its used in food container too.
Zinc is not safe for cooking use as its salts are toxic. People have been killed by cooking with galvanized steel buckets.
Food containers are steel plated with tin. Beverage cans are made of aluminum with an epoxy coating.
The metal prongs in this do look like zinc, but may be an alloy such as Zamac or an aluminum alloy. There is probably not much transfer of metal to the food since the hot dogs are not very acidic.
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https://www.fsis.usda.gov/wps/portal/fsis/topics/food-safety-education/get-answers/food-safety-fact-sheets/meat-preparation/sausages-and-food-safety/ct_index (https://www.fsis.usda.gov/wps/portal/fsis/topics/food-safety-education/get-answers/food-safety-fact-sheets/meat-preparation/sausages-and-food-safety/ct_index)
In the US, if it's labeled as a hot dog, it is required to be a pre-cooked sausage of some description. They're ready to heat out of the package, but most people like them heated first.
If the package is labeled as a sausage, it may or may not be cooked. If not ready to eat, it must be clearly labeled as requiring cooking. Breakfast type sausages often fall in the uncooked category.
Clives antique hot-dog cooker came from the US, so it's made the assumption that you're starting with cooked meats. I think Presto quit selling them about the time the microwave became popular. One minute in their cooker couldn't compete with 30 seconds in the microwave. Although personally in pre-microwave days I preferred them boiled or grilled, not electrocuted.
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this is fun for a high school class to do (physics) so long its not populated by the stupid
you setup a little party and cook the dogs (maybe do a lab before hand with some simple thermodynamics calculations to department approve)
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In the US, if it's labeled as a hot dog, it is required to be a pre-cooked sausage of some description. They're ready to heat out of the package, but most people like them heated first.
If the package is labeled as a sausage, it may or may not be cooked. If not ready to eat, it must be clearly labeled as requiring cooking. Breakfast type sausages often fall in the uncooked category.
I think its the same here in Australia (although I don't know the specifics around hot dog vs. sausage). A sausage on a bread roll is typically referred to as a "hot dog".
Canned or shrink-wrapped sausages are pre-cooked and are safe to eat hot or cold. They are of dubious quality and are usually made from a paste of the bits of animal leftover, plus a bunch of water and salt.
Fresh sausages very in quality. They can be made from the same sludge as above (usually labelled "economy sausages" sold in supermarkets) or actual real meat with proper herbs and spices (commonly sold in butchers). Either way, they are not hermetically sealed, have a short shelf life, must be refrigerated and must be cooked.
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I don't know why there is confusion. Every hot dog I saw (frank, hebrew national, etc) is ready to eat out of the box but you can make em a bit safer to eat if you get them steaming hot.
You can microwave ,boil or grill them.
You can get quality dogs too
https://www.snakeriverfarms.com/american-kobe-beef/65001.html?ne_ppc_id=1554858907&gclid=Cj0KCQjwg73kBRDVARIsAF-kEH8Q_gziN8GFbK8lX9Iphl1KBZ5bQNP8Y7VHBk0iTC6TrKjdEoXTqYoaAg6WEALw_wcB (https://www.snakeriverfarms.com/american-kobe-beef/65001.html?ne_ppc_id=1554858907&gclid=Cj0KCQjwg73kBRDVARIsAF-kEH8Q_gziN8GFbK8lX9Iphl1KBZ5bQNP8Y7VHBk0iTC6TrKjdEoXTqYoaAg6WEALw_wcB)
The usual rule of thumb is get Kosher when you are getting hot dogs. Cheap hot dogs are shady as hell.
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I had one of these when I was a student.
The composition of the dogs and hence the brand you purchased made a huge difference, with some heating nicely, and some hardly at all.
Only way to tell was trial-and-error .. shopkeepers would just "look at you funny" when you asked "how conductive are these?"
Dave
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Clive did mention that it is "an American novelty here". Both the hot-dogs as well as the gadget (sent from Canada).
I was raised as a vegetarian and I have never knowingly eaten meat. (I'm sure I have consumed it several times along the way without knowing.) Even back in the mid previous century when I was a kid, there were fake hot-dogs made from gluten/tofu/whatever. But now there are several different brands of vege-hotdog. Both canned and vacuum-packed and refrigerated. Just yesterday at the office cafeteria, I enjoyed a couple of vege-hotdogs made from quinoa.
Interesting that it seemed to operate on 240V much the same as over here on 120V. Probably at higher heat (because of the higher voltage) so cooks in 1/2 the time, but perhaps not as even as a longer time at lower voltage/temperature.
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If the resistance was constant, you'd expect it to operate at 4x power (P = V2/R). But there could be some non-linear effects.
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Here canned viennas are not exactly known as "food', and in the military they had a rather worse reputation, as the "mystery meat' of last resort, served when there was nothing else available, and the name given to them was worse.
The standard pack is a precooked item in a shrink wrap, either frozen or defrosted, sold as ready to eat out of the pack, though you can buy better ones like Russian sausage, which has a taste to it other than salt with some mystery additive, and which is made from real meat by products, and not from every part of the cow other than the hooves and the horns ( though that is debatable) and the mystery "mechanically deboned chicken", which is a misnomer if ever there was one. Suggest you do not look how they are made if ever you want to eat them again.
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Mr. Wizard electrocutes a hot dog:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ScwbimMBklA (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ScwbimMBklA)
Hot dogs are semiconductors! and full of resistors. At one point he grabs both forks, one in each hand. Fortunately he switched off the power first.
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Of course in Clive's latest video he cooked himself with mains electricity :o
That was much more adventurous ;D
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Sorry, it looks like time to throw in the DEC Pickle investigation! :scared:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/the-direct-mains-powered-food-based-organic-lighting-and-cooking-thread/msg1446516/#msg1446516 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/the-direct-mains-powered-food-based-organic-lighting-and-cooking-thread/msg1446516/#msg1446516)
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Where I worked in the '80s, we did this regularly. We called them "Ampere-dogs".
Stiff wire into one end, stiff wire into the other end, connect to 220 V (as it was called in those days).
5...10 seconds and it was done, any longer and it splits.
They did have a special metallic taste, my guess would be ionisation of some of the ingredients.
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That's one of the cultural differences between the UK and the USA. In the USA all sausages I have seen are pre-cooked and just need heating. In the UK all sausages are made from raw meat and need thorough cooking before eating.
(Clive's hot dogs were canned and as with all canned goods are cooked and safe to eat right out of the can.)
There are lots of raw sausages available in US supermarkets, just yesterday I cooked some pork links for breakfast, and a few weeks ago I grilled bratwurst. Hotdogs are universally precooked as far as I've seen though.
Something to keep in mind is the fact that there are many words shared between US and British English that have entirely different meanings. For example a cookie in the US is a biscuit over there, I'm not sure off hand what the British call the things we call biscuits. Their chips are our fries, our chips are their crisps, what they call hotdogs may well not be the same as what a hotdog is in the US.
At any rate I remember cooking (well, heating) hotdogs with electricity when I was in elementary school. The teacher brought in screwdrivers to use as electrodes and a clothes iron as a ballast. It worked fine however I recall the hotdogs didn't taste very good at the ends where the electrodes went in. I also had a book somewhere of electricity experiments for boys, I think from the 1950s which had instructions to build a mains powered hotdog cooker.
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Something to keep in mind is the fact that there are many words shared between US and British English that have entirely different meanings. For example a cookie in the US is a biscuit over there, I'm not sure off hand what the British call the things we call biscuits. Their chips are our fries, our chips are their crisps, what they call hotdogs may well not be the same as what a hotdog is in the US.
Hotdogs are not a British cultural thing. When we put a sausage in a bun it likely won't be a German style sausage it will be a British sausage*, preferably fried or grilled until nicely browned on the outside. Best is cooked over an open flame around a camp fire until slightly crispy ("sausage sizzle").
Similarly, Southern style biscuits don't have an equivalent in Britain, so there is no translation available.
* British sausages are generally large, plump, juicy, made with pork or beef, and with plenty of herbs and seasoning in them.
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Whatever the case I think hotdogs are actually pretty gross. They're one of those classic traditional middle class foods that people eat probably as much out of tradition as anything else. I'm sure every culture has a few things in that category. I prefer proper sausages, even in the precooked category there are much tastier options than the classic hotdog. That's only my opinion though.
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That's one of the cultural differences between the UK and the USA. In the USA all sausages I have seen are pre-cooked and just need heating. In the UK all sausages are made from raw meat and need thorough cooking before eating.
That’s utter nonsense, sorry.
As an American who’s lived in USA and continental Europe in roughly equal amounts, and who visits the UK regularly... nope. All of these places have sausages that are sold cooked (hot dogs, frankfurters, wieners, kielbasa, etc) and sausages that are sold fresh (italian sausage, bratwurst, breakfast sausage, “bangers”, etc).
You’re in USA, have you never seen fresh brats, italian sausage, chorizo, breakfast sausage (links or bulk), etc. in the meat case?!? When I lived in USA, I practically always had hot italian in the fridge. :)
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My father told me that one way of testing if a transmitter waveguide was working, was to place a sausage in the RF path. If it fried then peak envelope power was being achieved! Or use an apprentice's finger if a sausage wasn't available from the mess.
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That seems like a good way to make a nasty mess in the waveguide when a bit of oily juice squirts out of the sausage. I've seen microwave ovens damaged by spatter that kept absorbing power.