Author Topic: Coronavirus cure  (Read 26421 times)

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Offline vodka

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Re: Coronavirus cure
« Reply #150 on: May 02, 2020, 04:25:36 pm »

The ozone therapy may be a solution for Covid. Injecting ozone via intravenous, it achieves to improve the oxygenation of the blood besides reducing the inflammation and cytokine storms

https://translate.google.es/translate?hl=es&sl=es&tl=en&u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.grupopoliclinica.es%2Fexito-del-primer-ensayo-clinico-espanol-con-ozonoterapia-para-pacientes-covid-19-en-grupo-policlinica%2F

If Google translate is to be trusted, it says IV vitamin C or administering ozone, not administering ozone through IV. I don't think the heart will appreciate if you inject a large column of air into a vein.

Yes,it is correct . Here, the hospital press don't explain how they do it.

Here it is the video where Dr. Alberto Hernández explains the method(3:08) and the number of patient treated. According Dr.Hernandez , they extract a blood sample from the patient. The sample mix with ozone and it reinjecting via vena.(There are subtitles)

https://youtu.be/sqDpIF3thvo

Video of  the first patient recovered of the COVID19  with ozone therapy(There are subtitles)

https://youtu.be/Vm5tRirLntA





 

Online SiliconWizard

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Re: Coronavirus cure
« Reply #151 on: May 02, 2020, 05:03:28 pm »
 

Offline cdev

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Re: Coronavirus cure
« Reply #152 on: May 03, 2020, 12:58:56 pm »
Where I live there has "been a run on" bidets" which spray your butt or genitalia with water and dont require TP.

And for weeks we couldnt buy any either. Now we're all set though. We used mail order and I forget the price but it was a lot more. Now the stores have it again. We are only shopping like once a month and buying a LOT of stuff.


TP is gone everywhere. It is surreal. I thought it was just memes. But yesterday I went to buy some tea and saw that there was not a roll of TP in the whole store. This is just stupid.
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Offline cdev

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Re: Coronavirus cure
« Reply #153 on: May 03, 2020, 02:09:59 pm »
https://medical-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/epithelium

epithelium [ep″ĭ-the´le-um] (pl. epithe´lia) (Gr.)
the cellular covering of internal and external surfaces of the body, including the lining of vessels and other small cavities. It consists of cells joined by small amounts of cementing substances. Epithelium is classified into types on the basis of the number of layers deep and the shape of the superficial cells....


In the case of COVID-19 the respiratory epithelium starts leaking, and the lungs fill with a pinkish foamy mixture of dead cells and blood. Making it difficult for people to breathe. Also the nerves carrying impulses from the brain to the lungs stop working sometimes. Because the virus invades the CNS.

So the most important things that need to be done are. halt the replication of this virus and protect especially the respiratory system but also the CNS. The virus also takes a few days to be recognized fully by the immune system. Sometimes typically five to ten days after a person is first showing symptoms the immune system mounts a powerful too strong response that is not regulated properly and thats often the beginning of the end for somebody. That is called a cytokine storm.

None of this is easy to cope with for medicine. People are dying in large numbers and doctors are human beings and this is a new disease. Its also causing large scale economic problems. Investors invest large amounts of money in physical things, like factories that from their points of view are losing money every minute they sit idle. Blaming others is a total waste of time in this situation compared to time spent looking for and learning how to save peoples lives in any way we can.

Simplistic pseudoscience is almost certainly not only not going to be helpful it quite possibly is harmful. COVID-19 causes severe lung damage, and severe organ damage. Even people who survive a serious case of it are likely to still have health problems from it for the rest of their lives.

Oxygen is needed to breathe but reactive oxygen species such as produced by ozone is likely to be harmful to their bodies in a bunch of ways. Ozone therapy is totally pseudo science. It has no basis in fact that I know of.

It is used to kill bacteria in water . But that doesnt translate to people. What Trump was doing is he was taking the things he heard thatwere different therapies for different disease and trying to figure it out and describe it. There are treatments for non-covid 19 illnesses that involve taking blood out of the body and exposing it to strong light and then putting it back in. The problems with using this in COVID-19 are many, for one COVID-19 is not a blood disease.. the virus infects cells via the ACE2 receptor, and the blood plays no part. So, it wouldnt be at all helpful.

« Last Edit: May 03, 2020, 03:13:28 pm by cdev »
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Offline cdev

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Re: Coronavirus cure
« Reply #154 on: May 03, 2020, 02:37:10 pm »
I have this small book "Totalitarian Science" thats about the common aspects of "science" under totalitarianism. It talks about the pseudoscience that was behind some of mankind's biggest disasters of recent times.

Basically, politics should not enter into science at all. But it does.

All of the players in this disaster have an agenda that embeds the growing corporate control of the world into all solutions which are being put forward.

this virus has shown some of the weaknesses of how we develop new knowledge and what it is telling us - we're unable to just go about finding what works and doing it.

Instead we're listening to people who have vested financial interests who are obsessed with making lots of money on people in an emergency.

Also there is a large class of people who don't pursue facts logically, they have biases that they cling to aggressively which they use to defend their actions.  But those biases are unscientific. I know some of these people.


Ozone therapy" is classic pseudoscience. Like solar roadways. Its junk science. Ozone is used to kill bacteria in water but in the body reactive oxygen sepecies (like hydrogen peroxide) are not a good thing at all.   Brushing with baking soda and hydrogen peroxide, yes. Thats good for your teeth. helps them be whiter. and reduces gum disease.  But dont do that if your gums are bleeding, get your teeth fixed first.
Hydrogen peroxide is reactive oxygen species.

Sometimes ROS provide essential functions. And are useful in signaling.
We know that now. But "Ozone" is not going to cure coronavirus in any way. You can bet on it. the people who put it forward are basically failing to fix a serious problem and they feel they have to say something helps.


The ozone therapy may be a solution for Covid. Injecting ozone via intravenous, it achieves to improve the oxygenation of the blood besides reducing the inflammation and cytokine storms

https://translate.google.es/translate?hl=es&sl=es&tl=en&u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.grupopoliclinica.es%2Fexito-del-primer-ensayo-clinico-espanol-con-ozonoterapia-para-pacientes-covid-19-en-grupo-policlinica%2F

If Google translate is to be trusted, it says IV vitamin C or administering ozone, not administering ozone through IV. I don't think the heart will appreciate if you inject a large column of air into a vein.

Yes,it is correct . Here, the hospital press don't explain how they do it.

Here it is the video where Dr. Alberto Hernández explains the method(3:08) and the number of patient treated. According Dr.Hernandez , they extract a blood sample from the patient. The sample mix with ozone and it reinjecting via vena.(There are subtitles)

https://youtu.be/sqDpIF3thvo

Video of  the first patient recovered of the COVID19  with ozone therapy(There are subtitles)

https://youtu.be/Vm5tRirLntA

No no no no..

Don't do it.

On the other hand, there are some ANTI-oxidant substances that may turn out to be useful.

I think several common ones are likely to. Not to be a cure, but likely to mitigate some of the severity of it.

Vitamin C might help significantly, Zinc also, people should be taking extra zinc and Vitamin C. I am.

But dont be an idiot and think that is a cure, it isnt, and having some false sense that it may be is actually dangerous.

Lots of things need to have more eyes focused on them.

There is one possible candidate that seems not unlikely to be both an antiviral and immunomodulator, plus it addresses a huge number of the things that COVID-19 does - in other diseases.

However there is also a nonzero chance, like there is with everything, that it might not be helpful at all. I personally think the chance is much larger that it helps than hurts but my own knowledge is missing the comprehensive knowledge of cytokines and immunology and experience that I would need to posess to be able to know. This substance is active against many viruses and also against many kinds of sepsis and seems to even have activity against acute lung injury and even ARDS, when caused by other pathogens and medical conditions.

Even though we are now five months into this pandemic, nobody has investigated it yet in the ways it needs to be investigated in COVID-19, a global pandemic. That raises a red flag for me.

If any of you are doctors and working on solutions you should know. Its the best known stilbenoid. You can buy it almost anywhere.



https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5307780/
« Last Edit: May 03, 2020, 06:30:49 pm by cdev »
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Online SiliconWizard

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Re: Coronavirus cure
« Reply #155 on: May 03, 2020, 09:02:46 pm »
As noted in the Wikipedia article, "In April 2016, the FDA prohibited the medical use of ozone".
So, it's not just a weird alternative therapy, it's plain and simple prohibited in the US and probably in many other countries in the world.
 
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Offline james_s

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Re: Coronavirus cure
« Reply #156 on: May 03, 2020, 09:05:17 pm »
Why anyone would think it's a good idea is beyond me. Ozone is nasty stuff, it's toxic, it kills biological organisms, it's highly reactive and corrodes many metals, it attacks some polymers. You DO NOT want to have the stuff in your body.
 
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Offline cdev

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Re: Coronavirus cure
« Reply #157 on: May 03, 2020, 10:41:22 pm »
I would also be careful with ionizers which produce ozone when they go over a certain voltage. Heres what happened when I used a ionizer I thought to clean the air in an apartment that turned out to have very bad mold, it made it much much worse because negatively charged particles are attracted to positively charged (grounded) objects. So these particles stuck to things that were grounded,
But the attic was filled with mold. Certain tmes of the day when the air in the attic was flowing downward it would get much worse. (Not that frequently because the air usually flowed up, ) but in this case that mold produced a polysaccharide matrix thats was filled with satratoxin G and H.

After experiencing that I would suspect that an ionizer would greatly increase your chances of getting COVID-19 simply from it being in the air. If any of your neighbors had it the use of an ionizer would likely increase your risk. Usually the dust that blows in usually goes back out again, but an ionizer makes it stick to things.

« Last Edit: May 03, 2020, 10:44:29 pm by cdev »
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Offline vodka

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Re: Coronavirus cure
« Reply #158 on: May 04, 2020, 05:35:22 pm »
Why anyone would think it's a good idea is beyond me. Ozone is nasty stuff, it's toxic, it kills biological organisms, it's highly reactive and corrodes many metals, it attacks some polymers. You DO NOT want to have the stuff in your body.

Certain, the water is too toxic? NO, it depends of dosis. It is not the same a water bottle at room than a room full the water.
 

Online SiliconWizard

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Re: Coronavirus cure
« Reply #159 on: May 04, 2020, 05:50:29 pm »
Why anyone would think it's a good idea is beyond me. Ozone is nasty stuff, it's toxic, it kills biological organisms, it's highly reactive and corrodes many metals, it attacks some polymers. You DO NOT want to have the stuff in your body.

Well, to be fair, a lot of drugs are actually also toxic on some level.

One problem with ozone is that's it's VERY unselective. Another of course is that apart from potentially killing cells, we don't really know what the benefits would be.
 

Offline vodka

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Re: Coronavirus cure
« Reply #160 on: May 04, 2020, 06:36:26 pm »
I have this small book "Totalitarian Science" thats about the common aspects of "science" under totalitarianism. It talks about the pseudoscience that was behind some of mankind's biggest disasters of recent times.

Basically, politics should not enter into science at all. But it does.

All of the players in this disaster have an agenda that embeds the growing corporate control of the world into all solutions which are being put forward.

this virus has shown some of the weaknesses of how we develop new knowledge and what it is telling us - we're unable to just go about finding what works and doing it.

Instead we're listening to people who have vested financial interests who are obsessed with making lots of money on people in an emergency.

Also there is a large class of people who don't pursue facts logically, they have biases that they cling to aggressively which they use to defend their actions.  But those biases are unscientific. I know some of these people.


Ozone therapy" is classic pseudoscience. Like solar roadways. Its junk science. Ozone is used to kill bacteria in water but in the body reactive oxygen sepecies (like hydrogen peroxide) are not a good thing at all.   Brushing with baking soda and hydrogen peroxide, yes. Thats good for your teeth. helps them be whiter. and reduces gum disease.  But dont do that if your gums are bleeding, get your teeth fixed first.
Hydrogen peroxide is reactive oxygen species.

Sometimes ROS provide essential functions. And are useful in signaling.
We know that now. But "Ozone" is not going to cure coronavirus in any way. You can bet on it. the people who put it forward are basically failing to fix a serious problem and they feel they have to say something helps.


The ozone therapy may be a solution for Covid. Injecting ozone via intravenous, it achieves to improve the oxygenation of the blood besides reducing the inflammation and cytokine storms

https://translate.google.es/translate?hl=es&sl=es&tl=en&u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.grupopoliclinica.es%2Fexito-del-primer-ensayo-clinico-espanol-con-ozonoterapia-para-pacientes-covid-19-en-grupo-policlinica%2F

If Google translate is to be trusted, it says IV vitamin C or administering ozone, not administering ozone through IV. I don't think the heart will appreciate if you inject a large column of air into a vein.

Yes,it is correct . Here, the hospital press don't explain how they do it.

Here it is the video where Dr. Alberto Hernández explains the method(3:08) and the number of patient treated. According Dr.Hernandez , they extract a blood sample from the patient. The sample mix with ozone and it reinjecting via vena.(There are subtitles)

https://youtu.be/sqDpIF3thvo

Video of  the first patient recovered of the COVID19  with ozone therapy(There are subtitles)

https://youtu.be/Vm5tRirLntA

No no no no..

Don't do it.

On the other hand, there are some ANTI-oxidant substances that may turn out to be useful.

I think several common ones are likely to. Not to be a cure, but likely to mitigate some of the severity of it.

Vitamin C might help significantly, Zinc also, people should be taking extra zinc and Vitamin C. I am.

But dont be an idiot and think that is a cure, it isnt, and having some false sense that it may be is actually dangerous.

Lots of things need to have more eyes focused on them.

There is one possible candidate that seems not unlikely to be both an antiviral and immunomodulator, plus it addresses a huge number of the things that COVID-19 does - in other diseases.

However there is also a nonzero chance, like there is with everything, that it might not be helpful at all. I personally think the chance is much larger that it helps than hurts but my own knowledge is missing the comprehensive knowledge of cytokines and immunology and experience that I would need to posess to be able to know. This substance is active against many viruses and also against many kinds of sepsis and seems to even have activity against acute lung injury and even ARDS, when caused by other pathogens and medical conditions.

Even though we are now five months into this pandemic, nobody has investigated it yet in the ways it needs to be investigated in COVID-19, a global pandemic. That raises a red flag for me.

If any of you are doctors and working on solutions you should know. Its the best known stilbenoid. You can buy it almost anywhere.



https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5307780/

First point, the pseudoscience is the wildcard of the officialism,which they feel powerless or jealous, unable to explain a phenomenon what is against of their beliefs or their dogma. On the Medicine history there are many cases, and we have not to go so far at time.

Second point: The experiment was done with 10 patients among them  there were semi-critics and critics. Nobody DIED, 10 of 10 recovered. Now, if the doctors have achieved to find a secure dosis for healing  .Isn't it valid?

Third point: The hypothesis of the hemoglobin (curiously censored in youtube): The theory is that the virus interferes with the hemoglobin molecule avoiding the set up of oxigen , provoking the cytokines storm and the inflamations of the organs

https://youtu.be/qYUD3Dqu8Oc ((8:15) and (34:35))
https://youtu.be/w-BtnQ3gKTI  ((10:41))

 

Offline cdev

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Re: Coronavirus cure
« Reply #161 on: May 04, 2020, 10:42:51 pm »
I just found this paper yesterday which gave a fairly good explanation of oxygen's roles in viral infections.

Oxygen and viruses: a breathing story
https://www.microbiologyresearch.org/content/journal/jgv/10.1099/vir.0.000172

If you are reading scientific journals looking for things that mitigate coronavirus, you have to know what to look for. There are a number of articles out there telling you how to think like a scientist. The reason I put forward RESV are all based in science, which in its case included the fact that a number of different chains of logic all led me there. And interestingly there was little or no overlap, the reasons that emerged in these different all chains of logic were complementary.

Its not pseudoscience to suspect that if a substance inhibits closely related other coronaviruses that it might also inhibit it too.
 Especially when it may quite possibly address so many other needs that doctors have. Its hard to ignore a substance when it may help restore a healthy immune response that has been dysregulated. polymicrobial sepsis, coagulopathy , and others.. When it clears the airway and improves the integrity of the respiratory epithelium.

The ozone psedoscience goes back many decades, its not new. Its been disproven. 

But common sense and science keeps telling us to look at RESV. Like this study on pre-exposure prophylaxis of the virulent pseudorabies virus.


First point, the pseudoscience is the wildcard of the officialism,which they feel powerless or jealous, unable to explain a phenomenon what is against of their beliefs or their dogma. On the Medicine history there are many cases, and we have not to go so far at time.


« Last Edit: May 05, 2020, 03:02:05 am by cdev »
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Offline james_s

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Re: Coronavirus cure
« Reply #162 on: May 05, 2020, 01:35:25 am »
Certain, the water is too toxic? NO, it depends of dosis. It is not the same a water bottle at room than a room full the water.

Sure but what is a safe dose of ozone? As someone else said, it's very unselective, like UV-C or bleach it destroys biological material that it contacts. Medications are normally made of substances that act selectively in the doses they are used. I certainly will not be deliberately exposing myself to the stuff or putting it into my blood. It's nice for eliminating odors and reducing the amount of bromine I need to sanitize the water in my hot tub though.
 

Offline DrG

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Re: Coronavirus cure
« Reply #163 on: May 05, 2020, 03:44:52 am »
Encouraging...

A human monoclonal antibody blocking SARS-CoV-2 infection.

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-020-16256-y
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Offline cdev

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Re: Coronavirus cure
« Reply #164 on: May 05, 2020, 04:05:18 am »
That looks interesting but I must confess, I only understand maybe 25% at best of what is being said at this point, if that. I understand some of the procedures, but most of this particular discipline is still just completely new to me.

Encouraging...

A human monoclonal antibody blocking SARS-CoV-2 infection.

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-020-16256-y

Given a corpus of unstructured text from scientific journal articles, what I need is a natual language processor that can ingest text and spit out a chart of all the proper words, and extract the descibed relationships and what was meant and turn it into tables of what it figured out about them :)

"What could possibly go wrong" !

« Last Edit: May 05, 2020, 04:10:51 am by cdev »
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Offline DrG

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Re: Coronavirus cure
« Reply #165 on: May 05, 2020, 02:13:22 pm »
Well, at the risk of the blind leading the blind......

One of the most exciting approaches to a treatment against a virus is to find antibodies that specifically identify and destroy the virus (as in the case of someone who has recovered from the infection) and then manufacture / purify them and then give them to someone else.

Here is some commentary on the role of mAbs https://blogs.sciencemag.org/pipeline/archives/2020/04/27/monoclonal-antibodies-for-the-coronavirus

The importance is that the study has identified such an antibody and it works, in vitro.

Identification is only the start of the process https://www.uptodate.com/contents/overview-of-therapeutic-monoclonal-antibodies

Lots of folks are going after this approach, the deployment of could be a critical pre-vaccine step to "solving"  this pandemic https://www.statnews.com/2020/03/19/coronavirus-antibody-therapies-will-they-be-ready-in-time/

Just an aside - it may be that those 'young' people who recover quickly and without severe symptoms are not even using this line of immune function and that is an interesting area in itself.

If you want to look for a "silver lining" in this mess, it is not that the "new normal" will have us living in bubbles, it is that we will advance the science significantly (e.g., the case with HIV).
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Offline cdev

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Re: Coronavirus cure
« Reply #166 on: May 05, 2020, 02:43:40 pm »
Because it is such a challenge that on the way to solving it we'll be forced to learn a lot of new stuff. Thats what I have thought too. But they are resisting learning things that might make our approach more cost effective because the investing class REALLY sees healthcare as their entitlement to milk every possible penny out of in their own captive markets.

Have you been following the battle over starting a new COVID-19 patent/IP pool? Its quite interesting. To understand the context, somebody needs to understand what happened with HIV drugs, especially the true and incredible story that is laid out in the film "Fire in the Blood" by Dylan Mohan Gray (that name is from memory and may be misspelled, anyway the film is on netflix, etc. 

Also, the story involves the WTO and its TRIPS agreement as well as the "DOHA Declaration on the Trips Agreement and Public Health"

I am too exhausted of this whole thing to do it justice right now.
 Here are some links, these are not light reading.

Arthritic Flexibilities for Accessing Medicines- Analysis of WTO Action Regarding Paragraph 6 of the DOHA Declaration on the Trips Agreement and Public Health
 https://journals.iupui.edu/index.php/iiclr/article/download/17822/17992/

The race to patent the SARS virus: the TRIPS agreement and access to essential medicines (by Matthew Rimmer of QUT, who is very good on IP law issues, his work is quite worth reading, seeking out I mean and reading - this is from 2004)
https://eprints.qut.edu.au/86812/1/86812.pdf
---------

I found this line of thinking while investigating the surprising broadness of resveratrol's antiviral activity.

Sirtuins Are Evolutionarily Conserved Viral Restriction Factors (mBio-2014-Koyuncu)

https://mbio.asm.org/content/mbio/5/6/e02249-14.full.pdf

--------------------

The below is unrelated but its one of the most informative of the articles Ive read on the neuroinvasive aspect of the SARS-CoV-2 virus.

Yanchao Li
ORCID iD: 0000-0002-2884-9829
The neuroinvasive potential of SARS-CoV2 may be at least partially responsible for the respiratory failure of COVID-19 patients
Yan-Chao Li 1 *, Wan-Zhu Bai 2 , Tsutomu Hashikawa 3

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/32104915
« Last Edit: May 05, 2020, 03:13:53 pm by cdev »
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Offline Buriedcode

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Re: Coronavirus cure
« Reply #167 on: May 05, 2020, 03:05:20 pm »
First point, the pseudoscience is the wildcard of the officialism,which they feel powerless or jealous, unable to explain a phenomenon what is against of their beliefs or their dogma. On the Medicine history there are many cases, and we have not to go so far at time.

It's true its almost modern Science's "Fake news" cry.  But you must remember that it's a broad term that covers everything from quackery/vitalism, to apparent legitimate research that appears to use the scientific method, but falls short to change the outcome of research either by citing poorly designed/executed studies, or straight up fabricating data.  If an experiment creates results that cannot currently be explained, until there is a plausible explanation, then that isn't "science" - thats the start of research.

Second point: The experiment was done with 10 patients among them  there were semi-critics and critics. Nobody DIED, 10 of 10 recovered. Now, if the doctors have achieved to find a secure dosis for healing  .Isn't it valid?

Depends on hat you mean by valid.  Ten patients is a tiny sample.  And as far as I am aware, the majority of COVID-19 patients make a full recovery.  How do you know they wouldn't have recovered anyway if there was no intervention?  How were they selected? were they tested but asymptomatic? were they severe cases?  Were they all the same age? 

Something which many seems to skip over is, studies and trials are hard.  The scientific methodology is simple, but designing and running trials takes a lot of time, money and effort. You can never control for all confounding factors, or account for natural variation, it's very easy to completely warp results by excluding or including patients with or without certain criteria.  I would put money on a trial in with 10 COVID-19 patients, all drank a glass of apple juice, and all recovered, it doesn't prove anything really - except perhaps that apple juice isn't lethal.

Third point: The hypothesis of the hemoglobin (curiously censored in youtube): The theory is that the virus interferes with the hemoglobin molecule avoiding the set up of oxigen , provoking the cytokines storm and the inflamations of the organs

I have no idea if that is true or not.  I suspect the reason for the censoring on youtube, because there is a LOT of misinformation that authorities are trying to battle - the fact the POTUS recommended injecting disinfectant is the most known, but seriously, social media and youtube is FULL of dangerous quackery about this virus. 

The stupid stuff is obvious, but arguably the more dangerous ideas are the ones with an air of legitimacy - like massive doses of vitamins, or "anti oxidants" that have no evidence supporting their use to "boost immune system (which you dont' want to do anyway, because that can cause cytokine storm).  When people are scared, they tend to abandon critical thinking and go with whatever they feel is best - and hold onto to preconceived notions, like "low vitamins bad, some good, more = better!".

Look at the whole hydroxychloroquine debacle - how many papers have been published about its efficacy recently, and how many actually showed any benefit? None.  It's just because it is mentioned in the news, or because there are ongoing studies into it - people assume it must work.

I'm not sure why interfering with oxygen uptake would "provoke a cytokine storm", I thought that was just an over-reaction of the immune system when a large number of white cells are involved - that can be triggered by many things.  What links the two here? or did you just state that?

[/quote]
« Last Edit: May 05, 2020, 03:08:55 pm by Buriedcode »
 

Offline dietert1

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Re: Coronavirus cure
« Reply #168 on: May 05, 2020, 07:59:11 pm »
Nobody knows what will happen, but sometimes i think corona may be the cure nature invented to protect this planet from another pandemic. What we call human civilization became a plague.

Regards, Dieter
 
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Offline james_s

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Re: Coronavirus cure
« Reply #169 on: May 05, 2020, 08:56:06 pm »
Depends on hat you mean by valid.  Ten patients is a tiny sample.  And as far as I am aware, the majority of COVID-19 patients make a full recovery.  How do you know they wouldn't have recovered anyway if there was no intervention?  How were they selected? were they tested but asymptomatic? were they severe cases?  Were they all the same age? 

Something which many seems to skip over is, studies and trials are hard.  The scientific methodology is simple, but designing and running trials takes a lot of time, money and effort. You can never control for all confounding factors, or account for natural variation, it's very easy to completely warp results by excluding or including patients with or without certain criteria.  I would put money on a trial in with 10 COVID-19 patients, all drank a glass of apple juice, and all recovered, it doesn't prove anything really - except perhaps that apple juice isn't lethal.


10 participants is nothing, it's below the noise floor. You'd need 100 bare minimum to reach any kind of useful results and even then it would really only tell you whether there was reason to expand the next stage to something like 1,000, then 10,000 would start to get interesting.
 

Offline Syntax Error

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Re: Coronavirus cure
« Reply #170 on: May 05, 2020, 09:14:13 pm »
For those interested in Covid-19 contact tracing apps, this is the UK's offering, link courtesy of the GB National Center for Cyber Security.

"High level privacy and security design for NHS COVID-19 contact tracing app"

https://www.ncsc.gov.uk/report/nhs-covid-19-app-privacy-security-report
 

Offline Buriedcode

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Re: Coronavirus cure
« Reply #171 on: May 06, 2020, 12:00:46 am »
10 participants is nothing, it's below the noise floor. You'd need 100 bare minimum to reach any kind of useful results and even then it would really only tell you whether there was reason to expand the next stage to something like 1,000, then 10,000 would start to get interesting.

That was my point...
 

Offline cdev

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Re: Coronavirus cure
« Reply #172 on: May 06, 2020, 12:23:41 am »
Looks like George Orwell was really onto something, huh?

He was finally getting paid well and then they went and stuck him in the sanatorium, where he could not work. And he had those horrid side effects from that drug, worse than anybody else ever had.

For those interested in Covid-19 contact tracing apps, this is the UK's offering, link courtesy of the GB National Center for Cyber Security.

"High level privacy and security design for NHS COVID-19 contact tracing app"

https://www.ncsc.gov.uk/report/nhs-covid-19-app-privacy-security-report
"What the large print giveth, the small print taketh away."
 

Offline james_s

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Re: Coronavirus cure
« Reply #173 on: May 06, 2020, 03:51:27 am »
10 participants is nothing, it's below the noise floor. You'd need 100 bare minimum to reach any kind of useful results and even then it would really only tell you whether there was reason to expand the next stage to something like 1,000, then 10,000 would start to get interesting.

That was my point...

Yeah I was agreeing with you and elaborating further on what you said.
 

Offline Buriedcode

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Re: Coronavirus cure
« Reply #174 on: May 06, 2020, 03:22:42 pm »
10 participants is nothing, it's below the noise floor. You'd need 100 bare minimum to reach any kind of useful results and even then it would really only tell you whether there was reason to expand the next stage to something like 1,000, then 10,000 would start to get interesting.

That was my point...

Yeah I was agreeing with you and elaborating further on what you said.

Sorry, given some of the crap/misinformation about all this (and science in general) I've read recently, I'm sort of primed to expect it.    :(
 


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