Author Topic: Coronavirus cure  (Read 26418 times)

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Offline msuffidy

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Re: Coronavirus cure
« Reply #175 on: May 07, 2020, 10:46:26 pm »
The usual way of dealing with virus is isolating them, making a lot of them. Killing them and then injecting some of the ripped up bits into the body for it to start making antibodies against.  I hear it has to be tested for side effects and tuned for response, and this takes a few months to do.

Fundamentally it would be nice to mess up how virus works after it enters a cell, but the problem is it is looks a lot like what humans are made out of in the first place. Remdesivir was something intended to do this for RNA virus.

There is a pretty complete video about how covid-19 works and some strategies against it here:


I mean in SCI-FI  it would great to do like a micron scale scan of the entire planet and somehow materialize ionizing energy at all those points, but I am guessing that can't be done right now.
 

Offline cdev

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Re: Coronavirus cure
« Reply #176 on: May 09, 2020, 06:58:21 pm »
This is a good video.

Notice what she says about how there are literally thousands of bat coronaviruses still in bats that have yet to emerge. But likely will in the future. That means we need a new approach to this, otherwise it will be like highway robbery every few years where everybody who cannot cough up everything demanded gets to take a huge risk of dying and in fact, many will die. It will be the modern day version of paying tribute to your local feudal lord.

The usual way of dealing with virus is isolating them, making a lot of them. Killing them and then injecting some of the ripped up bits into the body for it to start making antibodies against.  I hear it has to be tested for side effects and tuned for response, and this takes a few months to do.

Fundamentally it would be nice to mess up how virus works after it enters a cell, but the problem is it is looks a lot like what humans are made out of in the first place. Remdesivir was something intended to do this for RNA virus.

There is a pretty complete video about how covid-19 works and some strategies against it here:


"What the large print giveth, the small print taketh away."
 

Offline Marco

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Re: Coronavirus cure
« Reply #177 on: May 10, 2020, 12:05:16 pm »
Nobody knows what will happen, but sometimes i think corona may be the cure nature invented to protect this planet from another pandemic. What we call human civilization became a plague.

Nature is sickness and plague non stop. Human civilization is the one chance man has to escape nature and escape we must. Nature sucks, death sucks.
 

Offline dietert1

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Re: Coronavirus cure
« Reply #178 on: May 10, 2020, 07:01:06 pm »
Oh boy. When i see those youtube comment videos regarding "The escape"... There is a certain boyish personality who really believe that crap has some meaning other than making money from entertainment.
Yes, human capabilities are tremendous, but so are human failures. Typical human failure: Well, doctors tell me that virus disease may be lethal and they can't heal it, but let's wait how bad it really is. Hospitals are full of people ashamed of being infected.
Some days ago one of our virus experts said: If i can't sleep it's because of USA, Brasil and India. As far as i know there is no other cure than the one invented by the Chinese: Wear masks, observe distance. South Korea just reports another outbreak that may affect several thousand people. It originated in a bar..

Regards, Dieter
 

Offline Marco

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Re: Coronavirus cure
« Reply #179 on: May 10, 2020, 07:47:19 pm »
That's a rather bizarre jump to make.
 

Offline hwj-d

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Re: Coronavirus cure
« Reply #180 on: May 10, 2020, 08:18:00 pm »
Nobody knows what will happen, but sometimes i think corona may be the cure nature invented to protect this planet from another pandemic. What we call human civilization became a plague.

Regards, Dieter
Well, let's give it a little push.
Bill Gates "beste mann",
Marina Abramović "beste bitch".

Do we belive in the Georgia Guidestones?
Do we know, what is the nature of eugenics?
Do we know who and what the father of BG was?
Do we know what Robert F. Kennedy jr says?

Information and education is a debt to be collected. Not only in the IT-world, that one should think for oneself.
« Last Edit: May 10, 2020, 08:20:58 pm by hwj-d »
 

Offline Marco

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Re: Coronavirus cure
« Reply #181 on: June 17, 2020, 07:23:59 pm »
I would also be careful with ionizers which produce ozone when they go over a certain voltage. Heres what happened when I used a ionizer I thought to clean the air in an apartment that turned out to have very bad mold, it made it much much worse because negatively charged particles are attracted to positively charged (grounded) objects. So these particles stuck to things that were grounded

Being such a niche product ionizers tend to not be very well optimized. The ones used in LG air conditioners use carbon brushes, will create much more emission at lower voltages than the classical needle array, with negligible ozone at 2-3 kV.

I wonder if there's a place for ion wind driven electrostatic precipitators for air filtering. They could be made dirt cheap. Though there is some conflicting evidence, ionic wind fans seem to be able to be made relatively efficient.

You could make them so cheap you could fill entire ceilings with them at low costs ... this might be enough to bring interior infections down to exterior levels (ie. negligible).
 

Offline cdev

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Re: Coronavirus cure
« Reply #182 on: June 17, 2020, 11:53:41 pm »
My concern is that most of the particles that come into your living space eventually leave the same way they came in, by convection and airflow. However when you have a negative ionizer - the stuff that comes in, stays inside, it ends up sticking to your walls and especially, electronics, or anything thats grounded and pointy, like your hair.
"What the large print giveth, the small print taketh away."
 

Offline Marco

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Re: Coronavirus cure
« Reply #183 on: June 18, 2020, 01:58:19 am »
The ones in air conditioners and electrostatic precipitators only ionize the air temporarily, they catch the ionized dust to do filtering. The air coming out is neutral.
 

Offline cdev

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Re: Coronavirus cure
« Reply #184 on: June 18, 2020, 03:41:33 am »
Its different when the air contains toxic risks. I learned about this the hard way and have the scars to prove it. If indeed there is a coronavirus risk, you shouldnt be doing anything to have it cleaned out of the air, at least I wouldnt. I'd leave the ionizer alone. When they do sampling for virus RNA in a room, they go to any fan blades first. Dont use an ionizer unless you have a way of immediately diisinfecting it or something.

In my case there was mold and a very toxic grease in the air. The thin toxic film of dust from hell..
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Offline Marco

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Re: Coronavirus cure
« Reply #185 on: June 18, 2020, 10:36:53 am »
First of all Viruses can't multiply in dust and some recent research contends that airborne transmission is in fact dominant.

Also as I said, when they use it in an air-conditioner before a filter or in an electrostatic precipitator there are no ions coming out. They essentially use a coarse grounded filter, which normally won't catch the fine particles ... but because the particles get ionized they do, together with all the other ions.
 

Offline cdev

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Re: Coronavirus cure
« Reply #186 on: June 18, 2020, 12:18:42 pm »
I could certainly use a good air filter without lots of static pressure like my HEPA filter has.


Is there any way to test without destroying your multimeter, if a filter with ionizer inside is emitting high voltage particles? Something with a very high input impedance and bulletproof? It just has to be a relative measurement.

Because I don't want to make something that ionizes the air outside of its box and makes dust stick to walls and other things.

Either whatever I  use removes dust without ions escaping, or I cannot use it. It has to be self contained, and easy to clean because dust makes me sick.

A three wire plug that grounds it, no problem.
"What the large print giveth, the small print taketh away."
 

Offline Marco

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Re: Coronavirus cure
« Reply #187 on: June 18, 2020, 01:04:03 pm »
Is there any way to test without destroying your multimeter, if a filter with ionizer inside is emitting high voltage particles?

You could simple connect a metal plate to earth through the multimeter and put it on the current measuring or voltage setting (ie. 10 Meg shunt current measurement). Hold it in front and see if it makes a difference when you turn the ionizer on (the airflow alone might cause some static charge).

That said, there's not that many residential air filters which work this way. They are heavily used industrially of course, but not so much in consumer applications. Even the washable electrostatic filters for HVAC seem to rely on friction to create ions in the air rather than ionizers.
 

Online splin

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Re: Coronavirus cure
« Reply #188 on: June 20, 2020, 01:51:04 am »
For UK residents (or those who can spoof their IP location) BBC radio 4's 'Inside Science'  programme covered the engineering of buildings, public transport etc. to control infection:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m000jxvp

Perhaps most interestingly, starting at 9:05, Birmingham University (UK) have developed anti-bacterial surface treatments with very long lifetimes - several years at least. Bacteria are killed within milliseconds of contact; they are very sure they will be equally effective against coronavirus but need to test it when their labs, closed by the lockdown, become available again (a few weeks work).

The process involves nitriding to bind anti-bacterial chemicals such as bleach or chlorhexidine to the surface. It has been succesfully trialled in the Royal Navy for 12 months. It can't be retro-fitted to existing surfaces but they are investigating films that can be applied. This sounds very promising and a relatively cheap way of eliminating risks of contact transmission in public places, especially hospitals, by replacing light switches, door handles, water taps etc.

No doubt the bureaucrats will manage to kill it in short order.

[EDIT] Corrected the programme name from 'Science Direct'. No idea where that came from.
« Last Edit: June 20, 2020, 02:25:06 am by splin »
 

Offline themadhippy

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Re: Coronavirus cure
« Reply #189 on: June 20, 2020, 02:12:20 am »
Quote
by replacing light switches, door handles, water taps etc.
No need for fancy new technology,just use copper ,ok  maybe not light switches.
 

Offline cdev

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Re: Coronavirus cure
« Reply #190 on: June 20, 2020, 02:18:03 am »
Copper tape is not that expensive and can be used on lots of things.
"What the large print giveth, the small print taketh away."
 

Online splin

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Re: Coronavirus cure
« Reply #191 on: June 20, 2020, 02:45:04 am »
Quote
by replacing light switches, door handles, water taps etc.
No need for fancy new technology,just use copper ,ok  maybe not light switches.

You seem very confident that copper is effective against coronavirus although you might be right given it's known to be effective at killing bacteria, algae etc. But how quickly might it kill coronavirus - quick enough to prevent transmission to the next person in the ATM queue?

Copper isn't cheap; whereas nitriding isn't (as far as I know). Copper oxidises so it won't be desirable for many applications. Who would want copper (plated) taps, toilet flush handles, door push plates etc. that need frequent cleaning/polishing? Similarly with silver, another known bactercide.
 

Offline Marco

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Re: Coronavirus cure
« Reply #192 on: June 20, 2020, 07:37:09 pm »
Google scholar says copper works on influenza, but not exactly lightning fast.

Though even for influenza it seems to be an open question whether airborne or surface-to-hand-to-eye transmission dominates (theoretically mouth/nose contact too, but I suspect it's mainly rubbing your eyes which does it). For corona it's now a reopened question too ... I think WHO's decision to call it not airborne as mostly settled science was an ill conceived lie to prevent shortages of masks.

We need good science to tell us which routes dominate. If one of the routes dominates and the rest can't can't bring R0 above say 0.1 alone then worrying too much about them is not productive, we need to know which of the routes are the low hanging fruit. I suspect airborne transmission indoor is the low hanging fruit.
 

Offline SilverSolder

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Re: Coronavirus cure
« Reply #193 on: June 20, 2020, 07:47:45 pm »
Google scholar says copper works on influenza, but not exactly lightning fast.

Though even for influenza it seems to be an open question whether airborne or surface-to-hand-to-eye transmission dominates (theoretically mouth/nose contact too, but I suspect it's mainly rubbing your eyes which does it). For corona it's now a reopened question too ... I think WHO's decision to call it not airborne as mostly settled science was an ill conceived lie to prevent shortages of masks.

We need good science to tell us which routes dominate. If one of the routes dominates and the rest can't can't bring R0 above say 0.1 alone then worrying too much about them is not productive, we need to know which of the routes are the low hanging fruit. I suspect airborne transmission indoor is the low hanging fruit.

Sounds like both routes are worth taking into consideration for now?
 

Offline bluey

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Re: Coronavirus cure
« Reply #194 on: June 27, 2020, 08:59:31 pm »
I suspect airborne transmission indoor is the low hanging fruit.

I agree. There is enough evidence but the experts arent convinced yet, still peddling contact.

Moreso the major route is probably close range aerosol inhalation from asymptomatic superspreaders indoors.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1P9tBF-1RE5vw5hZyGIZ89Fl8munmLEQS/view

Think “breathing in other peoples smoke”.

They way it looks, corononavirus could hang round until we get herd immunity. But scores of mutations have already been identified.  So could still be another flu-like virus we live with forever.

Contact tracing wont work until we can afford to test asymptomatic people.
« Last Edit: June 27, 2020, 09:06:38 pm by bluey »
 

Offline cdev

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Re: Coronavirus cure
« Reply #195 on: June 27, 2020, 10:23:48 pm »
Ventilation is going to need to improve a lot in many buildings where people gather together.
"What the large print giveth, the small print taketh away."
 

Online nctnico

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Re: Coronavirus cure
« Reply #196 on: June 27, 2020, 11:22:16 pm »
I suspect airborne transmission indoor is the low hanging fruit.
I agree. There is enough evidence but the experts arent convinced yet, still peddling contact.
Appearantly there isn't enough evidence otherwise the experts would have reached a conclusion.  :palm:
Covid-19 is a new disease with many unknowns. If we keep chasing the 'new idea du-jour' we end up running in circles and probably doing more harm than good. See the whole hydroxychloroquine failure.
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 


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