Author Topic: Cosmology question: Is the universe round?  (Read 4801 times)

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Offline maggotronix

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Cosmology question: Is the universe round?
« on: February 23, 2017, 05:19:46 am »
I thought I'd throw this question in general chat lol, it is intriguing question for me & I am fascinated by other intelligent people's responses. I hope this is ok?

The way I see it, the universe could be warped in a big hypersphere thing & curve back on itself, so that every direction you point, it leads back to you.

I think the very fact that the universe loves spheres (planets, stars etc) might mean that the cosmos as a whole could very well be a gigantic 5-dimensional sphere.

I remember as kid in '70s reading astronomy books, they all mentioned this as if it was a fact. Some were from '50s etc. I think it is a sound idea? The fact that we measure a "flat" universe nowadays could simply be because the "spherical" shape of the universe is more massive than we imagine maybe?

How do you intelligent people envisage the universe? Or do you even think about it? Is it important to you?
« Last Edit: February 23, 2017, 05:22:52 am by maggotronix »
 

Online Refrigerator

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Re: Cosmology question: Is the universe round?
« Reply #1 on: February 23, 2017, 05:36:51 am »
I think the very fact that the universe loves spheres (planets, stars etc) might mean that the cosmos as a whole could very well be a gigantic 5-dimensional sphere.

The universe doesn't love spheres, that's just the way they turn out.
Since most planets started out either as a dust cloud or a molten blob ( like Earth ) surface tension with centrifugal force and gravitation made them spherical. IMO.
I have a blog at http://brimmingideas.blogspot.com/ . Now less empty than ever before !
 

Online Wytnucls

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Re: Cosmology question: Is the universe round?
« Reply #2 on: February 23, 2017, 05:38:27 am »
The universe is flat, just like the earth.
 

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Re: Cosmology question: Is the universe round?
« Reply #3 on: February 23, 2017, 05:41:35 am »
The universe is flat, just like the earth.
...what if Earth is just a massive flying saucer ?
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Offline calexanian

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Re: Cosmology question: Is the universe round?
« Reply #4 on: February 23, 2017, 05:42:53 am »
I thought I'd throw this question in general chat lol, it is intriguing question for me & I am fascinated by other intelligent people's responses. I hope this is ok?

The way I see it, the universe could be warped in a big hypersphere thing & curve back on itself, so that every direction you point, it leads back to you.

I think the very fact that the universe loves spheres (planets, stars etc) might mean that the cosmos as a whole could very well be a gigantic 5-dimensional sphere.

I remember as kid in '70s reading astronomy books, they all mentioned this as if it was a fact. Some were from '50s etc. I think it is a sound idea? The fact that we measure a "flat" universe nowadays could simply be because the "spherical" shape of the universe is more massive than we imagine maybe?

How do you intelligent people envisage the universe? Or do you even think about it? Is it important to you?

Good question. I am by no means knowledgeable in astrophysics but since there are variations in the cosmic background radiation and that correlates to the non homogenious distribution of matter in the universe, and said variation in distribution of matter means the gravity field is not homogeneous effecting both the expansion of that matter and would have effected spatial inflation, and that variance in gravity would have some small effect on time, then yes. It would not be unreasonable to be at least some small variation in the shape of space.

HOWEVER!!!!!

this may all be BS because you have to first define, what is the boundary of space, how does it propagate, and what can effect that propagation.... or.... It just evenly runs away in all directions at a specific speed, most likely the speed of light or some such thing...

Or maybe its just turtles all the way down...
Charles Alexanian
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Offline Landrew2390

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Re: Cosmology question: Is the universe round?
« Reply #5 on: February 23, 2017, 05:43:44 am »
I personally think the universe is a oblate spheroid.  The problem is one of perspective.  If the curve of the sphere is infinitely large, it appears to be flat from any point, but will not be true tangent plane.  Without being able to directly measure this curvature, we'll never know for sure whether the universe is flat or just very large.  That's one reason I think the universe is a flattened sphere.  As for the proportions of the sphere, I'm a computer engineer.  Anything that divides by two is okay with me.

Oh look, a new hobby . . .
 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: Cosmology question: Is the universe round?
« Reply #6 on: February 23, 2017, 06:14:59 am »
IIRC latest research shows the universe is flat-ish.
 

Offline digsys

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Re: Cosmology question: Is the universe round?
« Reply #7 on: February 23, 2017, 06:44:58 am »
I support "The hitchhikers guide ..." version, which has been around a while. After the big bang, the universe formed in a relatively spherical shape, with very minor imperfections
caused by gravitation warping from early black holes etc near that frontier, but only minor. As Time is a direct consequence of the expansion, nothing exists beyond that frontier.
Which is the PERFECT place to build a restaurant !
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Offline MarkS

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Re: Cosmology question: Is the universe round?
« Reply #8 on: February 23, 2017, 06:48:50 am »

I support "The hitchhikers guide ..." version, which has been around a while. After the big bang, the universe formed in a relatively spherical shape, with very minor imperfections
caused by gravitation warping from early black holes etc near that frontier, but only minor. As Time is a direct consequence of the expansion, nothing exists beyond that frontier.
Which is the PERFECT place to build a restaurant !


 :-+
 

Offline Brumby

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Re: Cosmology question: Is the universe round?
« Reply #9 on: February 23, 2017, 06:50:38 am »
The key to this discussion is understanding the definition of "Flat"
 

Offline calexanian

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Re: Cosmology question: Is the universe round?
« Reply #10 on: February 23, 2017, 06:55:49 am »
Where is Douglas Adams when we need him the most. Oh yeah.. Dead....  |O
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Offline T3sl4co1l

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Re: Cosmology question: Is the universe round?
« Reply #11 on: February 23, 2017, 02:01:30 pm »
There is no boundary to the Universe-as-we-theorize-it.

The boundary to the Universe-as-we-observe-it is a sphere of radius 47 Gly.  This is the proper distance, i.e., between where we are, and where those objects are now.  The age of the universe is 13.8 Ga, which is the time taken for that light to reach us.  (Actually less time, because the light that reaches us -- redshifted to the CMB -- was emitted at about 0.1 Ga.)

The early universe apparently expanded extremely rapidly, hence we can see things which, at the time, were within our light-cone (of 13.8 Gly radius), but have since expanded beyond our horizon.

The property of expansion (or shrinking, or asymptotic quiescence inbetween those cases) is an inherent result of the Friedmann–Lemaître–Robertson–Walker metric.  Namely: if you initialize space with a uniform distribution of matter, and set time moving, you get a universe that naturally expands (or not), all on its own.  And, as a result of that, an observer, at a point, sees distant matter passing out of their horizon (or in from it).

Based on this theory, we can reasonably suppose that the Universe-as-we-theorize-it is truly infinite.  Or at least, several times larger than the ~50Gly we know about.

The only restriction is observational, practical: we cannot see beyond our horizon, because at some distance through a uniformly expanding universe, the relative motion exceeds the speed of light.  (There's nothing wrong with that: space-time can do what it pleases.  The expansion isn't driven by internal energy, but space-time doesn't need to be conservative either.)  So, there's little to no point talking about matter that's >100 Gly away from us; there's no possibility that we can interact with it, or vice versa.

Earlier estimates of universe expansion suggested it was slowing, at enough of a rate to eventually collapse.  This showed up in pop culture from time to time.  While that would be an amusing fate, elegant even; modern data suggests it's pretty damned close to flat, like cosmic-coincidence-of-coincidences flat.  The asymptote will be zero density, but it will take a very long time indeed to get there (like 10^20 years).  At that time, all energy will be red-shifted to a very cold CMB, and all matter will have collapsed into black holes, or evaporated into energy and red-shifted away.

Of course, this is a continuing subject of research, so although our existing error bounds are quite good (like the age of the universe), they concern a fairly narrow history; the wider and more subtle dynamics, that we can't resolve right now (like how early expansion was so fast, and how our fate will ultimately play out), are wide open, only speculation right now. :)

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Online nctnico

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Re: Cosmology question: Is the universe round?
« Reply #12 on: February 23, 2017, 02:32:03 pm »
I support "The hitchhikers guide ..." version, which has been around a while. After the big bang, the universe formed in a relatively spherical shape, with very minor imperfections
caused by gravitation warping from early black holes etc near that frontier, but only minor. As Time is a direct consequence of the expansion, nothing exists beyond that frontier.
Why not? What I find interesting is the repeated structure you see is: smaller things circling around a core. Like electrons around an atom, like planets around a star, like solar systems around the center of a galaxy. Extrapolating from there it wouldn't surprise me if there are an infinite number of universes which are part of a larger system. Why would there only be one big bang and one universe?
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 

Offline digsys

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Re: Cosmology question: Is the universe round?
« Reply #13 on: February 23, 2017, 03:17:44 pm »
Quote from: nctnico
  Why not? 
DOH ! Deep thought will ponder that question for another billion years, we'll get back to you !
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Offline CatalinaWOW

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Re: Cosmology question: Is the universe round?
« Reply #14 on: February 23, 2017, 04:26:59 pm »
This is clearly a purely philosophical question, since none of it makes any real difference here at home.

There is damn little outside the solar system that directly affects us, or can affect us.  The few things there are can't be changed so understanding them won't help.

Nothing outside our galaxy matters at all, except to scratch the curiosity itch.

Best we learn to play in our playground, since it is effectively all there is for us.
 

Offline CraigHB

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Re: Cosmology question: Is the universe round?
« Reply #15 on: February 23, 2017, 04:53:51 pm »
What's an interesting thought is what's beyond the boundary of Space.  In the sense that Space is nothingness that would be true Space. The empty Space we normally think of is not actually empty.  It's made up of stuff like Boson particles where the Higgs field propagates within it.  It's a fabric of space-time rather than nothingness.
 

Offline xygor

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Re: Cosmology question: Is the universe round?
« Reply #16 on: February 23, 2017, 06:07:38 pm »
The universe is a spheroid region, 705 meters in diameter.
 
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Offline calexanian

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Re: Cosmology question: Is the universe round?
« Reply #17 on: February 23, 2017, 08:41:21 pm »
Quote from: nctnico
  Why not? 
DOH ! Deep thought will ponder that question for another billion years, we'll get back to you !

The Golgafrinchans have gotten ahold of Deep Thought and have reprogrammed it to give horoscope readings, so that's out.
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Offline digsys

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Re: Cosmology question: Is the universe round?
« Reply #18 on: February 23, 2017, 11:12:29 pm »
Quote from: T3sl4co1l
There is no boundary to the Universe-as-we-theorize-it .... The boundary to the Universe-as-we-observe-it is a sphere of radius 47 Gly ... The property of expansion (or shrinking ...
Based on this theory, we can reasonably suppose ... although our existing error bounds are quite good  ...
At this current point in time - there is a NEAR EXACT 50/50 chance of your observations being correct ... up against the other WELL documented theory that - we are a pimple on the butt
of a tse tse fly, standing on a pig in a field (or at a very close 3nd, in the MATRIX) .. buzzzzzzz  :-)
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Offline metrologist

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Re: Cosmology question: Is the universe round?
« Reply #19 on: February 24, 2017, 12:10:31 am »
This is clearly a purely philosophical question, since none of it makes any real difference here at home.


This is what brings us to God and why the answer to the question really does make a difference at home. It's a coping tool.

I'd go with spherical-ish, or flat-ish.
 

Offline timb

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Re: Cosmology question: Is the universe round?
« Reply #20 on: February 24, 2017, 12:23:41 am »
This is clearly a purely philosophical question, since none of it makes any real difference here at home.


This is what brings us to God and why the answer to the question really does make a difference at home. It's a coping tool.

I'd go with spherical-ish, or flat-ish.

Totally spherical.

I like big universes and I cannot lie. You other brothers can't deny, when god walks in with an itty bitty waist and dat round universe in yo face you get SPRUNG, wanna role out my tongue... Cause dat universe she got is stuffed!
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Online Wytnucls

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Re: Cosmology question: Is the universe round?
« Reply #21 on: February 24, 2017, 04:20:43 am »
Some say we live in a Klein bottle:



I'll drink to that!
 
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Offline Michaelbradford

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Re: Cosmology question: Is the universe round?
« Reply #22 on: February 24, 2017, 04:31:26 am »
I don't think it is because you won't just come to a stop sign so to speak and I think if there is our planet then there is probably a infinite amount of planets the same as earth some maybe a thousand times bigger I just think there so far away we wont be able to reach them until some type of perhaps nuclear warp drive craft is built so we can get there much faster and easier
 

Offline calexanian

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Re: Cosmology question: Is the universe round?
« Reply #23 on: February 24, 2017, 06:16:18 am »
A few of my favorites.




Charles Alexanian
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