Author Topic: Counterfeit Chinese ..... FUSES  (Read 25912 times)

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Offline macboy

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Counterfeit Chinese ..... FUSES
« on: November 11, 2014, 06:53:52 pm »
I bought a pack of cheap automotive fuses at a dollar store the other day. I thought that I would test one out to see if it blew anywhere near the rating. Grabbed one marked 7.5 A and connected it to a 10 A lab supply. Cranked the current until it read 10.5 A (supply max). Hmm. Didn't blow. Connect the other side of the supply in parallel. Start cranking the current... until 21 A total is flowing through the bugger.

Then I grabbed the lowest rated fuse in the pack, a 3 A one. Connected those two supplies... 21 A, and no blow. Connect another supply and another 12 A for 33 A total. No blow. Instead, it melted. It probably would have caught fire if I had left it long enough.

Turns out that all of the "fuses" are just a little stamped piece of aluminum. All of them are identical except for the color of the plastic shell and the 'rating' printing thereon.

Semiconductor fakes are one thing. They take a cheap little part and stamp a high rated (expensive) part number on it and hope nobody notices. When the device fails due to severe abuse of the little crappy part, it usually just stops working, and hopefully nobody dies a fiery death. These "fuses" are a fiery death waiting to happen.

Fucking Chinese counterfeit crap. Anything to make a buck, even if it means blatantly endangering lives.
 

Offline SeanB

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Re: Counterfeit Chinese ..... FUSES
« Reply #1 on: November 11, 2014, 07:19:53 pm »
Those have been around before, AFAIK Autozone in the USA had bought a whole container load that they had to recall as they were fake, and would never blow.
 

Offline wraper

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Re: Counterfeit Chinese ..... FUSES
« Reply #2 on: November 11, 2014, 07:39:36 pm »
I bought a pack of cheap automotive fuses at a dollar store the other day. I thought that I would test one out to see if it blew anywhere near the rating. Grabbed one marked 7.5 A and connected it to a 10 A lab supply. Cranked the current until it read 10.5 A (supply max). Hmm. Didn't blow. Connect the other side of the supply in parallel. Start cranking the current... until 21 A total is flowing through the bugger.
For sure they are junk, however good fuse wouldn't blow at 10A either. Current rating is current at which fuse must hold, current it needs to blow is much higher. For example, curves from some random datasheet.
« Last Edit: November 11, 2014, 07:41:12 pm by wraper »
 

Offline macboy

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Re: Counterfeit Chinese ..... FUSES
« Reply #3 on: November 11, 2014, 07:45:54 pm »
I bought a pack of cheap automotive fuses at a dollar store the other day. I thought that I would test one out to see if it blew anywhere near the rating. Grabbed one marked 7.5 A and connected it to a 10 A lab supply. Cranked the current until it read 10.5 A (supply max). Hmm. Didn't blow. Connect the other side of the supply in parallel. Start cranking the current... until 21 A total is flowing through the bugger.
For sure they are junk, however good fuse wouldn't blow at 10A either. Current rating is current at which fuse must hold, current it needs to blow is much higher. For example, curves from some random datasheet.

I wasn't putting a pulse through the thing, I was putting continuous current for minutes at a time. A 1 A fuse shall blow with less than 2 A... it just takes a little while to heat up.
 

Offline wraper

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Re: Counterfeit Chinese ..... FUSES
« Reply #4 on: November 11, 2014, 07:48:11 pm »
I was talking about 10A at which it should never blow. At 20A it should blow in 10+ seconds I guess.
 

Online Monkeh

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Re: Counterfeit Chinese ..... FUSES
« Reply #5 on: November 11, 2014, 07:52:56 pm »
I was talking about 10A at which it should never blow. At 20A it should blow in 10+ seconds I guess.

A 7.5A blade fuse at 10A should blow. It might take a few (.. up to 20 or 30..) minutes, but it should blow. At 20A it should blow in under five seconds.
 

Offline dannyf

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Re: Counterfeit Chinese ..... FUSES
« Reply #6 on: November 11, 2014, 08:31:00 pm »
Quote
Turns out that all of the "fuses" are just a little stamped piece of aluminum.

Take a few fuses of your trusted brands, do the same experiment and report back please.
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Offline daqq

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Re: Counterfeit Chinese ..... FUSES
« Reply #7 on: November 11, 2014, 08:38:00 pm »
Oh goodie! ANOTHER thing to be paranoid about.
Believe it or not, pointy haired people do exist!
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Offline tom66

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Re: Counterfeit Chinese ..... FUSES
« Reply #8 on: November 11, 2014, 08:50:54 pm »
Well, even if the fuse is genuine, the plastic shouldn't melt. The fuse should fail before the plastic melts.
 

Offline free_electron

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Re: Counterfeit Chinese ..... FUSES
« Reply #9 on: November 11, 2014, 09:02:04 pm »
great ! finally a fuse that doesn't blow!

fuses that don't blow... that blows ...
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Offline Vito_R

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Re: Counterfeit Chinese ..... FUSES
« Reply #10 on: November 11, 2014, 09:07:01 pm »
Sadly not surprising as we are seeing more and more counterfeit dangerous parts and products coming out of China as the counterfeiters are even copying the counterfeits and making them even more dangerous.  One shady fly by night operation in a remote part of china opens up for a while, produces a big lot of parts and dumps them to big wholesalers or sellers on ebay.  The police there can't seem to do anything about it and the government doesn't seem to care less about it either.  Now with all the recalls happening in the automotive industry they are starting to talk about passing laws to force the car companies to have some sort of certification or standard testing of all these parts before they are allowed to be used on the assembly line.  They can't trust the Chinese manufacturers to do this for them anymore.  I seriously miss the era of good quality made in USA or Japanese parts.
« Last Edit: November 11, 2014, 09:09:46 pm by Vito_R »
Do the job right the first time.  Quality over quantity will save you in the long run.
 

Offline SL4P

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Re: Counterfeit Chinese ..... FUSES
« Reply #11 on: November 11, 2014, 09:19:16 pm »
And oddly, many targets of these scams are criticized for being anti-Asian, anti-Chinese racists.
It has nothing to do with the country, people or their ancestry - it has everything to do with being lying, cheating low-lifes that exist purely for their own gain and profit, to the detriment of others.

If that's how anyone wants to roll, then they should be happy with the feedback and punshment - positive or negative.
There are certain eastern European cultures that invoke the same types of reaction - simply by being in the wrong place at the wrong time, holding bulk quantities of fake, dangerous ripoff goods, and wads of ill-gotten money.  Go figure.
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Offline dannyf

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Re: Counterfeit Chinese ..... FUSES
« Reply #12 on: November 11, 2014, 09:23:46 pm »
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cheating low-lifes that exist purely for their own gain and profit, to the detriment of others.

I view this as an opportunity to teach self-preservation: it is unreasonable to ask that others care about you more than you do. Buying important things, like a fuse, from a less-than-reputable source in order to save a penny or two is unwise and can be detrimental.

Another example of high costs of low prices.
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Offline tom66

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Re: Counterfeit Chinese ..... FUSES
« Reply #13 on: November 11, 2014, 09:28:54 pm »
I view this as an opportunity to teach self-preservation: it is unreasonable to ask that others care about you more than you do. Buying important things, like a fuse, from a less-than-reputable source in order to save a penny or two is unwise and can be detrimental.

Except that Auto-Zone, a US retailer was selling these packs of fuses. A reasonably trustworthy place and they were likely selling them for more than a dollar. How is the average consumer supposed to determine that fuses are genuine? Not everyone knows what to look out for.
 

Offline dannyf

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Re: Counterfeit Chinese ..... FUSES
« Reply #14 on: November 11, 2014, 09:36:34 pm »
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How is the average consumer supposed to determine that fuses are genuine?

By being an above-average consumer?

Quote
Not everyone knows what to look out for.

Then leave replacing a fuse to those who do know what to look out for.
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Offline Vito_R

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Re: Counterfeit Chinese ..... FUSES
« Reply #15 on: November 11, 2014, 09:38:18 pm »
Society must be blamed for this too as everyone seems to be brainwashed into thinking we must get everything as cheap as possible.  They have been conditioned to think that price is of paramount importance and nothing else.  Lower Lower Lower and the chinese have capitalized on this and quality and safety have completely gone out the window.  Now we are starting to slowly pay for this. Not only are our landfills being filled with mountains of disposable chinese crap electronics that don't last must longer then the warranty, but they are also playing with our lives and safety now.  :rant:
« Last Edit: November 12, 2014, 01:12:18 am by Vito_R »
Do the job right the first time.  Quality over quantity will save you in the long run.
 

Offline c4757p

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Re: Counterfeit Chinese ..... FUSES
« Reply #16 on: November 11, 2014, 09:41:43 pm »
Quote
How is the average consumer supposed to determine that fuses are genuine?

By being an above-average consumer?

Quote
Not everyone knows what to look out for.

Then leave replacing a fuse to those who do know what to look out for.

Well, it's a good thing then that we're all well aware of the things we don't know.

(Okay, some of us. Others know everything.)
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Offline dannyf

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Re: Counterfeit Chinese ..... FUSES
« Reply #17 on: November 11, 2014, 09:46:06 pm »
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everyone seems to be brainwashed into thinking we must get everything as cheap as possible.

Agreed. As you buy cheap "bargains", you will inevitably buy low quality stuff.

On the flip side, I strongly support a market with differing (quality) products and services. Not everyone have the same appreciation for quality products and services and as such we are all better off if there are BMWs as well as Chevys.

Let consumers choose what they want, knowing that they aren't getting BMWs when they pay Chevy prices.
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Offline dannyf

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Re: Counterfeit Chinese ..... FUSES
« Reply #18 on: November 11, 2014, 09:47:41 pm »
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The problem is our whole economy is based on consumption

That's the root cause of the demise of western civiliation: we aren't going to spend us into prosperity.

We have to produce, except that we have been conditioned to punish our producers.
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Offline Vito_R

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Re: Counterfeit Chinese ..... FUSES
« Reply #19 on: November 11, 2014, 09:50:52 pm »
Society must be blamed for this too as everyone seems to be brainwashed into thinking we must get everything as cheap as possible.  They have been conditioned to think that price is of paramount importance and nothing else.  Lower Lower Lower and the the chinese have capitalized on this and quality and safety have completely gone out the window.  Now we are starting to slowly pay for this. Not only are our landfills being filled with mountains of disposable chinese crap electronics that don't last must longer then the warranty, but they are also playing with our lives and safety now.  :rant:

The problem is our whole economy is based on consumption, people stop buying the economy goes in the crapper.

Bring the manufacturing jobs back here and see what affect that will have on the economy.  :-+
Do the job right the first time.  Quality over quantity will save you in the long run.
 

Offline Vito_R

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Re: Counterfeit Chinese ..... FUSES
« Reply #20 on: November 11, 2014, 09:55:04 pm »
Quote
everyone seems to be brainwashed into thinking we must get everything as cheap as possible.

Agreed. As you buy cheap "bargains", you will inevitably buy low quality stuff.

On the flip side, I strongly support a market with differing (quality) products and services. Not everyone have the same appreciation for quality products and services and as such we are all better off if there are BMWs as well as Chevys.

Let consumers choose what they want, knowing that they aren't getting BMWs when they pay Chevy prices.

Fine as long as my BMW made with counterfeit cheap chinese parts doesn't catch fire and kill me one day or the airbag blows up in my face while im driving I'll accept that.
Do the job right the first time.  Quality over quantity will save you in the long run.
 

Offline wagon

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Re: Counterfeit Chinese ..... FUSES
« Reply #21 on: November 11, 2014, 09:59:03 pm »
I've seen blade fuses that do that in holders.  In fact, I replaced a 6 way blade fuseholder in a concrete pump yesterday.  There were two 30A fuses for the heat exchanger fans.  The truck had spent the first couple years of its life on an island off Western Australia, during the building of a gas project or something.  Salt air has affected many parts, and the fuse holders get corrosion in the contacts, they get high resistance, run hot & melt.  The fuse doesn't blow, but melts.

(I've made good money from that truck, and 90% of the problems have had corrosion-related causes)
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Offline tom66

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Re: Counterfeit Chinese ..... FUSES
« Reply #22 on: November 11, 2014, 10:22:05 pm »
Quote
How is the average consumer supposed to determine that fuses are genuine?

By being an above-average consumer?

Quote
Not everyone knows what to look out for.

Then leave replacing a fuse to those who do know what to look out for.

I would class myself as reasonably experienced in the field of electronics design and engineering. I understand how fuses work and what makes them tick. I can replace fuses in a car without taking it to a mechanic. However I could still not determine if a fuse is safe by immediately looking at it. And it would probably take me some time to check it is genuine using the right equipment which I'm certainly not going to be able to do when I'm stuck by the side of the motorway looking for the ignition circuit fuse in the pouring rain.

While we are at it, how do I know the mechanic I'm hiring - the one you so insist I hire  because I can't tell if a fuse is the real deal or not - will use genuine fuses, rather than what's  cheaply available from his parts dealer? Who knows if those parts are safe? I'd take a guess that at least some mechanics have bought parts from "AutoZone" or equivalent when in a pinch.

No, the only solution: stop the counterfeiters. Such counterfeited products are tantamount to reckless endangerment or possibly even manslaughter, if they lead to a death. Yet the people who import these products, and the people who make them, are very rarely punished.  Forging a safety mark (CE/UL/etc) should be serious crime, not one that many get a slap on the wrist and a voluntary recall for.
« Last Edit: November 11, 2014, 10:24:27 pm by tom66 »
 

Offline Derick Freese

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Re: Counterfeit Chinese ..... FUSES
« Reply #23 on: November 11, 2014, 10:38:27 pm »
A beater car that I bought for a few hundred bucks came with a box of fuses from a discount imported tools store, Harbor Freight for those in the US.  All of them had the same size fusible link inside.  I smashed all of them with a hammer so some unsuspecting soul couldn't find a discarded one and try to use it in a pinch.
 

Offline Vito_R

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Re: Counterfeit Chinese ..... FUSES
« Reply #24 on: November 11, 2014, 10:39:19 pm »
Quote
How is the average consumer supposed to determine that fuses are genuine?

By being an above-average consumer?

Quote
Not everyone knows what to look out for.

Then leave replacing a fuse to those who do know what to look out for.

I would class myself as reasonably experienced in the field of electronics design and engineering. I understand how fuses work and what makes them tick. I can replace fuses in a car without taking it to a mechanic. However I could still not determine if a fuse is safe by immediately looking at it. And it would probably take me some time to check it is genuine using the right equipment which I'm certainly not going to be able to do when I'm stuck by the side of the motorway looking for the ignition circuit fuse in the pouring rain.

While we are at it, how do I know the mechanic I'm hiring - the one you so insist I hire  because I can't tell if a fuse is the real deal or not - will use genuine fuses, rather than what's  cheaply available from his parts dealer? Who knows if those parts are safe? I'd take a guess that at least some mechanics have bought parts from "AutoZone" or equivalent when in a pinch.

No, the only solution: stop the counterfeiters. Such counterfeited products are tantamount to reckless endangerment or possibly even manslaughter, if they lead to a death. Yet the people who import these products, and the people who make them, are very rarely punished.  Forging a safety mark (CE/UL/etc) should be serious crime, not one that many get a slap on the wrist and a voluntary recall for.

AGREED  :-+
Do the job right the first time.  Quality over quantity will save you in the long run.
 


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