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Covid 19 virus

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nctnico:

--- Quote from: Leo Bodnar on March 24, 2020, 10:40:10 pm ---I recall that around 75% of infections in Wuhan were caused by asymptomatic carriers.
Don't forget that you can cough or sneeze irrespective of the fact that you are also carrying SARS-CoV-2 but have not had any symptoms yet (average is around 5.1 days.)
Leo

--- End quote ---
Now think of that a little bit more. If you have no symptoms then it is unlikely you cough and/or sneeze. So what is the primary carrier of the infection in such a case? How does the virus jump from one person to the other?


--- Quote from: SiliconWizard on March 24, 2020, 10:46:01 pm ---
--- Quote ---- If you are healthy, you only need to wear a mask if you are taking care of a person with suspected 2019-nCoV infection.
- Wear a mask if you are coughing or sneezing.

--- End quote ---
Sentence 2, from what I said above, seems stupid. Sorry WHO. You don't need to be coughing or sneezing to be potentially infected.

--- End quote ---
In sentence 2 the WHO implies that you are sick and are coughing and/or sneezing regulary.

Mr. Scram:
SiliconWizard, I may be stubborn but at least I don't hand wave and pretend to know better than the authority on the matter. Do you really think your arguments haven't occurred to an institute's worth of health care professionals?

Mr. Scram:

--- Quote from: nctnico on March 24, 2020, 10:48:32 pm ---Now think of that a little bit more. If you have no symptoms then it is unlikely you cough and/or sneeze. So what is the primary carrier of the infection in such a case? How does the virus jump from one person to the other?

--- End quote ---
Spontaneous French kissing would be my guess.

Someone:

--- Quote from: dunkemhigh on March 24, 2020, 08:45:06 pm ---
--- Quote ---A mask only works if the wearer knows how to use a mask.
--- End quote ---

For varying values of 'work'. If you wear a mask incorrectly, does it do anything at all? I would suggest it has some effect - it won't be the 'proper' working fully protective effect, but it would surely be better than nothing at all, wouldn't it?

Kind of like if you wear a crash helmet incorrectly it's not going to be as effective as if you did it up properly, but there's a non-zero possibility that it will lessen a bash on your bonce all the same. [OK, not quite analogous because an incorrectly worn helmet might kill you whereas a mask won't, but let's not go down that kind of rabbit hole.]
--- End quote ---
An incorrectly worn mask can increase the risk to the user, its a very apt comparison. Also that helmets are tested to a narrow range of function (direct blows to the head) and face masks are similarly synthetically tested without taking account of real world effects.

Those of us who have been trained for working with infectious substances might be able to use a mask effectively, but know its not applicable to the wider community. Most people (even in hospitality where they are supposed to be trained) don't use gloves/bags/tongs effectively for public food handling.


--- Quote from: Mr. Scram on March 24, 2020, 10:45:24 pm ---
--- Quote from: Leo Bodnar on March 24, 2020, 10:40:10 pm ---I recall that around 75% of infections in Wuhan were caused by asymptomatic carriers.
Don't forget that you can cough or sneeze irrespective of the fact that you are also carrying SARS-CoV-2 but have not had any symptoms yet (average is around 5.1 days.)
--- End quote ---
I feel we're going round in circles. The issue is that people don't have the proper training and discipline. They are likely to tug at infected masks and display more risky behaviour.
--- End quote ---
Which is why the advice to sneeze into an cocked elbow is a good public measure, not many people are going to be unconsciously touching that part of their body.

thinkfat:

--- Quote from: Mr. Scram on March 24, 2020, 10:33:52 pm ---
--- Quote from: thinkfat on March 24, 2020, 10:01:50 pm ---There's a study that hints (if I didn't misinterpret what I heard about it), 44% of transmissions happen before patients show symptoms, i.e. before they're coughing and sneezing. Make everybody wear a mask (scarf, buff, whatever)  - 44% of transmissions gone.

--- End quote ---
You're assuming a lot. What's the advantage when they're not sneezing or coughing? It's much more likely these patients are spreading it via their hands after touching parts of their body. This is why the WHO is emphasizing hand hygiene. It works both ways!

--- End quote ---
Well. They're still spitting while talking, virus-laden aerosol exits their mouths. Everybody does, it's inevitable. And everybody coughs now and then, maybe because the throat has become dry while talking. It's known that the virus replicates mainly in the throat during the initial phase of the infection. This is where the main virus load comes from, and this is the main transmission vector before symptoms begin to show. The virus spread in Berlin mainly through clubs. On the dance floor, at the bar. Loud music, you shout into the face of your peer because he/she cannot hear your otherwise - bam.

After the coughing and sneezing starts, the risk for transmission through smear infection comes from coughing and sneezing into your hands and then touching stuff or other people. This is what the WHO recommendation is targeting. Not only through washing your hands but also through "sneezing and coughing hygiene" (into your elbow, not into your hands, because you don't touch door handles and other people with the inner side of your elbow).

I'm aware of that study that suggests the virus easily survives days on plastic or metal surfaces and stays active. This has been demonstrated in the lab only, by infecting bacteria cultures in a petri dish. It's not yet clear how/if this study can be transferred into real world risk. The study only shows, if you put a droplet full of virus onto a plastic or metal sheet and then let it dry for a certain amount of time (some hours, days) the virus is still able to infect a petri dish full of bacteria in optimal environment.

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