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Covid 19 virus

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coppice:

--- Quote from: Cerebus on March 27, 2020, 05:19:42 pm ---
--- Quote from: Zero999 on March 27, 2020, 04:44:03 pm ---
--- Quote from: Siwastaja on March 27, 2020, 04:35:51 pm ---
--- Quote from: Cerebus on March 27, 2020, 04:20:50 pm ---Don't forget that vaccination is only safe because we do a lot of safety testing nowadays and that, even with that, otherwise safe vaccinations do in very rare cases cause more harm than good.

--- End quote ---

One such example is the swine flu vaccine, which caused some very strange, AFAIK still non-identified interaction with the Finnish gene pool, causing quite a few of severe cases of life-long narcolepsy on children and the young here, but almost nowhere else in the world. These people are still without compensation and little social security. The sad thing is, most of them were not in the risk group for the swine flu, so the vaccination, in this case, did more harm than good.

Of course, such cases are extremely rare, and that's the price we need to pay to have vaccinations at all; the average risk is almost zero due to all the testing, as you say.

--- End quote ---
Do you have any data/facts to support that? It sounds implausible, like the supposed link between autism and MMR vaccine, which was proven to be BS and cost lives.

--- End quote ---

Why should it be implausible? All things involve risk, like going for a walk.  Injecting attenuated/modified pathogens or parts of them into the human bloodstream doesn't exactly sound like the least risky thing one might do. Start at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vaccine_adverse_event if you need convincing that vaccine related damage isn't "implausible".

--- End quote ---
There are a number of infections which can result in long term mental impairment, and vaccines are just impaired infections.

vodka:

--- Quote from: SilverSolder on March 27, 2020, 04:44:14 pm ---
--- Quote from: SiliconWizard on March 27, 2020, 04:41:58 pm ---
--- Quote from: Siwastaja on March 27, 2020, 04:35:51 pm ---
--- Quote from: Cerebus on March 27, 2020, 04:20:50 pm ---Don't forget that vaccination is only safe because we do a lot of safety testing nowadays and that, even with that, otherwise safe vaccinations do in very rare cases cause more harm than good.

--- End quote ---

One such example is the swine flu vaccine, which caused some very strange, AFAIK still non-identified interaction with the Finnish gene pool, causing quite a few of severe cases of life-long narcolepsy on children and the young here, but almost nowhere else in the world. These people are still without compensation and little social security. The sad thing is, most of them were not in the risk group for the swine flu, so the vaccination, in this case, did more harm than good.

Of course, such cases are extremely rare, and that's the price we need to pay to have vaccinations at all; the average risk is almost zero due to all the testing, as you say.

--- End quote ---

Yes - except for the seasonal flu vaccines, that get modified and released with ultra short cycles. We can say they are mainly variants of well known vaccines, but still.

--- End quote ---

That kind of approach may end up being the best bet against Covid-19 and its future mutations...

--- End quote ---

Until than  the world owner "mutate" the Covid-19 in another pest more mortal . Today, i found a interest video of the Covid-19 origins. Regrettably, this is in italian and translated in spanish.


--- Quote --- An italian TV program from the public channel RAI 3,specialized in scientist info, told in 2015 , the "achievement " of the chinese scientists to modify the SARS virus for difusing the bats to humans  and affect their respiratory tract.

https://youtu.be/YHD5bfIghNU   Rafael Palacios ,alias "Rafapal" ,investigation journalist.
 
--- End quote ---

Siwastaja:

--- Quote from: Cerebus on March 27, 2020, 05:12:41 pm ---
--- Quote from: Siwastaja on March 27, 2020, 04:35:51 pm ---These people are still without compensation and little social security. The sad thing is, most of them were not in the risk group for the swine flu, so the vaccination, in this case, did more harm than good.

--- End quote ---

Sad. That's why the UK and US (and doubtless others) have statutory compensation schemes, to encourage vaccination that protects us all with the knowledge that the very rare cases that harm a few will be taken care of by all of us. (In theory. In practice, ...

--- End quote ---

Of course we have very good compensation schemes in place just for this - in theory.

Zero999, you have to do some research on this if you are interested, but you can start at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pandemrix  and https://www.cdc.gov/vaccinesafety/concerns/history/narcolepsy-flu.html . The narcolepsy cases are not limited to Finland alone, just the occurrence was in higher proportion here. Elsewhere, it was rare enough to mix into noise, hence it was first found here because here it was well above the noise floor.

Cerebus:

--- Quote from: coppice on March 27, 2020, 05:22:50 pm ---... and vaccines are just impaired infections.

--- End quote ---

Yes and no. It depends on the type of vaccine. There are basically three types of vaccine.


* Live vaccines These contain a live organism that is capable of stimulating an immune response to the thing you are vaccinating against. In turn these have two subtypes
* Related organisms. This is where an organism that is related to the one you're vaccinating against - but that is not itself disease causing - is used. The classic case is the use of cowpox to vaccinate against smallpox.
* Attenuated organisms. This introduces the actual disease causing pathogen using either a sub-strain that has been 'bred' to be non-pathogenic, or an organism that has been chemically 'attenuated' so it is still 'live' but the biochemical mechanisms of pathogenicity have been crippled.
* Killed vaccines These use the disease causing organism but it has been 'killed' stone dead so that you're just introducing its 'dead body', but the presence of the 'dead body' is still enough to induce an immune response.
* Component vaccines Just a part or parts of the organism are introduced, typically isolated surface proteins, which are still enough to train your immune system to recognise the pathogen if it actually turns up intact.

SiliconWizard:

--- Quote from: Cerebus on March 27, 2020, 05:47:32 pm ---
--- Quote from: coppice on March 27, 2020, 05:22:50 pm ---... and vaccines are just impaired infections.

--- End quote ---

Yes and no. It depends on the type of vaccine. There are basically three types of vaccine.


* Live vaccines These contain a live organism that is capable of stimulating an immune response to the thing you are vaccinating against. In turn these have two subtypes
* Related organisms. This is where an organism that is related to the one you're vaccinating against - but that is not itself disease causing - is used. The classic case is the use of cowpox to vaccinate against smallpox.
* Attenuated organisms. This introduces the actual disease causing pathogen using either a sub-strain that has been 'bred' to be non-pathogenic, or an organism that has been chemically 'attenuated' so it is still 'live' but the biochemical mechanisms of pathogenicity have been crippled.
* Killed vaccines These use the disease causing organism but it has been 'killed' stone dead so that you're just introducing its 'dead body', but the presence of the 'dead body' is still enough to induce an immune response.
* Component vaccines Just a part or parts of the organism are introduced, typically isolated surface proteins, which are still enough to train your immune system to recognise the pathogen if it actually turns up intact.
--- End quote ---

Do you happen to know what type of vaccine the seasonal flu vaccines are?

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