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Covid 19 virus
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CatalinaWOW:
All of this talk about what you can or can't do in various countries is not entirely correct.  A business leader I respected highly created a slogan "YAGOTTAWANNA"  which is probably easily understood by most English speakers. 

The company involved responded to an urgent need by building an office building in 30 days, from ground breaking to occupancy.   Far less than the usual 6 months to a year for similar buildings.  It involved breaking a lot of rules, ignoring inspection requirements, equal opportunity bidding, competitive bidding, minority preferances and any number of other regulations.  That 30 day interval is not the limit on how quickly it could have been done, but reflects the time frame of the requirement.  Greater need would result in greater speed, though I am not sure that here in the US we could match the Chinese result.
 (Also not sure what the specs on that Chinese hospital were.  Military field hospitals can go up in a matter of hours.)  But that building was built correctly and is still in use a quarter century later.   There were consequences, fines, post construction demonstration of code compliance and many, many instances of retaliatory go slow on subsequent building projects.  But the need was met and the costs were just what it took to get it done.

The same thing applies to the current COVID crisis.  Leaders who are willing to accept the consequences will take action.  If the actions result in a clear success the consequences will be small and well worth it.  If the results are middling anything could happen.  And obviously if the actions don't lead to success, or even make things worse there will be severe repercussions.   

The courage and wisdom of our leaders is being tested, and in many cases there are failures in both categories.  In my country the problem is not just at the top.  Too much attention is being paid to gaining political points and not enough to identifying the situation and then selecting and implementing responses.
not1xor1:
bullshit... or more precisely cow shit and urine... as coronavirus cure  :palm:

Hindu group touts cow urine elixir for coronavirus

 :-DD
nctnico:
The NL goes into lockdown for the next 3 weeks. This causes long lines with people who want to get some weed while they still can:
DrG:

--- Quote from: CatalinaWOW on March 15, 2020, 05:20:10 pm ---........
The same thing applies to the current COVID crisis.  Leaders who are willing to accept the consequences will take action.  If the actions result in a clear success the consequences will be small and well worth it.  If the results are middling anything could happen.  And obviously if the actions don't lead to success, or even make things worse there will be severe repercussions.  ......

--- End quote ---

Strongly agree. I would add that NON-ACTION is a huge part of the analysis.


--- Quote from: CatalinaWOW on March 15, 2020, 05:20:10 pm ---.....The courage and wisdom of our leaders is being tested, and in many cases there are failures in both categories.  In my country the problem is not just at the top. .....

--- End quote ---

Again, I strongly agree, but there is and has been a HUGE problem at the top and it can not be understated. The relevant SMEs referred to this as the one we were expecting. They have been routinely discounted by many who, through denial or arrogance, refused to listen.

You must know Fauci and while I do not know him personally, I have attended his talks many times over many years. So often in the last two months, he has appeared almost as an Island in a sea of chaos.

In contrast to the "Top's", denials, chronic bungling, chaotic miscommunications, walk backs of what was said only a few hours earlier, and the stark contradictions voiced  by people who actually are SME or listen to those with SME. Despite all of this, we are seeing many Governors putting operations in place and explaining exactly what they are doing and why. We are seeing the medical Institutions putting sound judgement into action. We are seeing a a coalescence of rationality. While it may never be complete, I believe it will become dominant.


--- Quote from: CatalinaWOW on March 15, 2020, 05:20:10 pm ---..... Too much attention is being paid to gaining political points and not enough to identifying the situation and then selecting and implementing responses.....

--- End quote ---

Again, I agree, but that is the norm for pretty much everything in the age of media over exposure. In this thread, I have been critical of some of the specific missteps made "at the top". Yes, criticism suggests blame, but, in my view, it is warranted here and now. It is part of the consequences that you speak of and those consequence will be felt forward...in November.

mrflibble:
First of all, thanks for your reaction. It did make me reread my own post and realize that I wrote either too much or not enough, depending on how you look at it. Just enough to potentially cause trouble, and not nearly enough to clearly convey things without risk of miscommunication. I mostly intended it as a "hey are you aware of xyz" and mostly expect others to do their own check & double checking. Case in point, rereading it, the tongue in cheek way in which I worded the bit about the corticosteroids was a bad plan. And the way you describe how it's probably used in relation to ARDS is indeed how I understood it as well, at the stage where they are on the ventilator. Anyways, so either I write a whole lot more to cover everything, or a whole lot less. To make it a responsible post is going to take too bloody long, working out notes, hunting down references etc. Nope, not that invested. So deleted my post because it was a bad idea.

The one thing that does puzzle me a tiny wee bit is:


--- Quote from: Cerebus on March 15, 2020, 02:18:40 pm ---If that folk remedy were to damp down the inflammatory response, if, then it would be exactly the wrong things to do. The inflammatory response is exactly evidence that your immune system is responding as it is supposed to.

--- End quote ---
This is indeed true. Unfortunately what is also true is that too much inflammation, is well, too much. I believe the phrase we're looking for here is "fatal inflammatory response". It's a common theme in entirely too many pathologies... So maybe I don't understand you correctly?  :-// To keep it within the current context, read for example this one:

https://www.virosin.org/fileZGBDX/journal/article/vs/newcreate/0216.pdf

Anyways, thanks for the sanity check. :-+
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