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Covid 19 virus
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edavid:

--- Quote from: Stray Electron on March 17, 2020, 05:37:50 pm ---
--- Quote from: DBecker on March 17, 2020, 04:47:18 pm ---From what I've read covid-19 is *not* transmitted by feces.
Do you have a credible study that states differently?

--- End quote ---

  As a matter of fact, yes I do. https://externalmediasite.partners.org/Mediasite/Play/45a9a74f18ec45deb338e00ac4cf4e281d  According to it, the virus remains active in fecal matter for over a week after the person is clinically "cured".  Given that viruses like warm moist environments I suppose that it shouldn't be a surprise that it can be found in fecal matter, even after the patient is "cured".

   This could help explain some of the "reinfected" individuals and spreading from"cured" individuals that were noted in China.

--- End quote ---

You're both right, or both wrong.  Virus was detected, but there's no known case of transmission by that route.  It is not known if it is possible.
not1xor1:

--- Quote from: nctnico on March 17, 2020, 11:30:44 am ---
--- Quote from: not1xor1 on March 17, 2020, 09:09:52 am ---In Italy the infection rate is slowly getting lower and lower although the situation is not the same everywhere (there is even a province with zero cases).
It takes time to see the effect of quarantine. I'm sure anyway that we'll have to wait at least another month before getting where China is now.

--- End quote ---
Unfortunately the infection numbers mean absolutely nothing because they solely rely on testing. In most parts of Europe the situation is so out of control that only people with severe symptoms get tested. Also a large number of people have such mild symptoms that they aren't tested at all. All in all the only real number you can use as a gauge to say anything meaningfull about the spreading of the Corona virus is the number of deaths.

--- End quote ---

it does mean something unless you change the measuring (testing) method since virus has not mutated yet

here tests are performed to people with temperature of 37.5°C or above and COVID-19 compatible symptoms

if you take strict quarantine measures and go on with that sort of test you have a valid feedback to check the effectiveness of the quarantine as the percentage of symptomatic vs asymptomatic doesn't change much... it is a constant from a statistical POV

obviously there is a time lag and now we get the figures of (symptomatic) people infected days ago
Nominal Animal:

--- Quote from: Stray Electron on March 17, 2020, 05:30:00 pm ---I can't believe that seemingly intelligent people in this forum and elsewhere continue to believe that this isn't extremely serious and still want to compare it the annual flu!
--- End quote ---
You have completely misunderstood what I and others have said.

The point is that flu is dangerous: very deadly pandemics occur about three times a century.  We have not had a really bad influenza pandemic for decades now, and that is probably why people like you think that flu is not extremely serious.  The average death toll from influenza is over half a million dead, worldwide, each year.  It is worse than a regional war!

My point is that we, as a species, are behaving exactly like the idiots who build cities on a flood plain, and then run around panicing when the next bad flood comes along.  We live on a planet with a LOT of dangerous things, and influenza and coronaviruses are among the things we should be prepared for.
While most annual flu seasons are "mild" -- you know, mild, like conventional war among a handful of countries --, every now and then a nasty variant comes along and kills a measurable fraction of the total human population.

There is nothing surprising, nothing exceptional, in this coronavirus pandemic.  It, or something like it, was fully expected; just not when or which virus.

The Chinese response to the outbreak is absolutely commendable.  In the aftermath, if we ignore the circle-jerking politicians congratulating themselves how well they managed the situation, we'll find that while the Chinese response was drastic, it was the most efficient course of action, both in human lives and in financial terms.  The question, that will not be answered in public in the West, is why we did not do the same, and why we haven't planned well enough for this even though we knew that this will happen -- just not when --, and that all signs point to this not being nearly the worst kind that we should be ready to expect.  (And don't tell me "we cannot", because we bloody well can.)

Like influenza, this coronavirus spreads mostly via droplets in exhalation.  If people wear a scarf or anything in front of their mouth, they drastically reduce the amount of virus-laden droplets they spread.  If people also wear gloves, without touching their face (or exhaled droplets) with those gloves, they minimize the spread of the virus.  Because it looks like a major part of the spread occurs before the person realizes they are infected, it is crucial that people who believe they are healthy behave as if they were infected, and try to avoid spreading the virus through droplets in their own exhalations.
If everyone did this, the pandemic would be over in three weeks.

The reason social isolation and self-quarantine is recommended, is that it works better than the above.  A single person is smart, but people are stupid as hell; you'd always have the one Typhoid Mary who thinks they don't have the virus, and do shortcuts that keep the infection spreading.  You know, the sly wipe of the nose, or cough in your gloved hand, when nobody is looking.  The only thing that works with stupid, is making stupidity harmless; and that's what isolation does.
not1xor1:

--- Quote from: imo on March 17, 2020, 12:47:34 pm ---Wearing masks (even DIY) is absolutely essential !!!
Who is saying it is not is an idiot !!!

https://fastlifehacks.com/n95-vs-ffp/

PS: an absolutely primitive DIY mask has an effectiveness (to stop droplets) of about 25%.
That is a pretty good number when talking statistics of random processes..

--- End quote ---

well I had bought ten FFP3 breathing masks about one year ago

now I just have one left that's in good condition
I wear that when I have to get out and then sanitize it by an isopropanol bath (I was lucky to get 5 liters for just 19 euros, now they are out of stock)

I also wear disposable nitrile gloves to help me remember not to touch my face (you may get infected by touching your eyes - your mouth and nose should be protected by the mask)

I'm confident I'm safe if I keep a safe distance from other people
if somebody else sneezes or cough near me I'm likely to get infected
medical staff do need full face masks

BTW no mask protects you if you are so stupid to raise it to smoke a cigarette or to kiss somebody you do not see since long (you can't imagine how many idiots you can immediately spot when you get out)

the most important thing is: get out as little as possible, just to buy food and medicines if you or somebody you care for needs them
SilverSolder:

--- Quote from: Nominal Animal on March 17, 2020, 07:06:12 pm ---[...] influenza and coronaviruses are among the things we should be prepared for.  [...]

--- End quote ---

There really should be portable equipment/resources at the EU level that can be flown in to hot spot areas to help quell outbreaks,  without each member country having to shoulder the cost of maintaining a high level of preparedness.   A perfect job for a shared institution like the EU.
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