General > General Technical Chat
Covid 19 virus
CatalinaWOW:
Don't base your opinion of a political leader on one speech or appearance. Trump held press conferences on Monday and Tuesday that were totally out of character. Calm. Rational. To the point. Excellent leadership. He has since reverted to form.
tinhead:
--- Quote from: CatalinaWOW on March 22, 2020, 01:42:14 pm ---Don't base your opinion of a political leader on one speech or appearance.
--- End quote ---
that's true, we all have still "recovered" numbers missing (even after 3 and more weeks since infection), from lot of countries, and still 2/3 just/still infected, so definitely not the time to applaus a victory. Btw, maybe we should all move to Iran, they have since begin of the pandemy reported "recovered" ppl, just 3-4 days after they got infected :P For sure they trying to use that pandemy to stop the embargo, which definitely make sense and i agree, but gosh, why nobody from the western politicians told them how to "properly" fake statistics?
matts-uk:
--- Quote from: flyte on March 22, 2020, 01:18:21 am ---
* Are they [facemasks] effective? Of course they are and even more so when grading goes up. There is a reason why they protect you from asbestos fibers or toxic dust. So they will protect your from infected particles or droplets.
--- End quote ---
The effectiveness of face-masks is nothing like as simple as you make it sound. What you say is not untrue but it is incomplete. FFP face-masks filter particles measured in micro-meters. The covid virus is measured in nano-meters.
The UK Health and Safety Executive (HSE) tested FFP mask efficacy subsequent to the 2008 bird-flu scare. FFP masks were found to provide an effective barrier against droplet transmission (>5 micro-meters) but merely reduced the risk of transmission by aerosol (<5 micro-meters). Testing assumes ancillary infection control measures are being followed, such as disposing of the mask after a single use (task).
https://www.nursingtimes.net/clinical-archive/infection-control/use-of-respiratory-and-facial-protection-17-01-2014/
https://www.hse.gov.uk/research/rrpdf/rr619.pdf
I completely agree that domestic use of surgical masks and FFP masks provides a false sense of security. Outside of well regulated, well resourced, health-care settings, FFP masks can quickly become a liability. Imagine a busy doctor continuing to use the same pair of gloves as they move between patients. The gloves will keep the doctor's hands clean but actually contribute to the spread of infection. Take the gloves away completely and the doctor is encouraged to wash his hands more often, lowering the risk of transmission to patients and colleagues alike.
In a domestic setting face masks can become imbued with the properties of a 'magic amulet.' The mask becomes a substitute for, and encourages neglect of, less convenient but far more effective measures.
--- Quote ---If you isolate with your family and keep distance from other people and you strictly abide by it, then a mask is of limited use.
--- End quote ---
Yes. Exceptional hygiene, social distancing and isolation are THE effective measures. Domestic mask use is (I believe) more likely to compromise those measures than enhance them. Many will end up walking around wearing masks for hours at a time, carrying virus laden droplets, infecting people who might otherwise be spared.
--- Quote ---As I've said, I had 10 FFP3's and came to the conclusion they're less useful to me but not to exposed health workers who may be within inches of Covid-19 patients' mouth or nose, hundreds of times a day.
--- End quote ---
Sincerely, thank you. Without adequate supplies of the right PPE hospitals become a significant _source_ of transmission. The UK is in a decidedly worse position than in the past, due to cost cutting policies driving the closure of small 'cottage' hospitals within local communities. Medical services, health care professionals and their patients have been consolidated into much larger populations within city based, so called 'super-hospitals.' Population density is the BIG transmission risk - one of the few things that is clear in the numbers being released.
--- Quote ---So why are there no masks in the west but in China there are? Because we didn't react on time and waited until stocks were depleted. Western politicians, all of them, were simply busy discussing it all or playing it down while they should have been paying attention and acting and preparing at the time.
--- End quote ---
Can't say what happens in other states but in the UK the press ensure the politicians are damned if they do and damned if they don't. Subsequent to the bird-flu scare of 2008 the press took great delight in pointing out the cost of the stockpiled vaccines and medical supplies that went out of date.
Ultimately the shortage of face-masks in the West is down to the West swapping domestic manufacture for globalisation and Just In Time supply chains. Surgical masks were already in short supply by the end of last year, while local Chinese officials were suppressing news of the outbreak. The virus reduced manufacturing capacity in China and created a peak in domestic demand simultaneously, before anyone in the West had much clue what was going on. When the news broke Western domestic consumers created a demand where no demand had ever existed before, with a potential to outstrip even the regular demands of the medical professions.
https://www.nytimes.com/article/face-masks-coronavirus.html
paulca:
UK ER Junior Doctor being fitted with his mask/shield. Bit more than just buying one off ebay/amazon I'd say.
https://youtu.be/7XZ2_xSHKMw?t=570
Bud:
You can say that masks are not effective until cows come home. However everyone in medcare and services are wearing them. Guess they are all dumb, is that right?
Right?
Related:
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmonton/edmonton-nurses-masks-covid19-swabs-exposure-1.5505406
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