Crazy claims made by electronics/electrical salesmen

[Mr. Scram]

Most people don't live in the UK.

It's consumer law EU wide. not just in the UK. Exact local interpretation can vary. Despite all the flak it gets, the EU has its advantages.

[coppice]

Most people don't live in the UK.

It's consumer law EU wide. not just in the UK. Exact local interpretation can vary. Despite all the flak it gets, the EU has its advantages.

Most people don't live in the EU.

[Mr. Scram]

Most people don't live in the EU.

A very large portion of Dyson customers likely do, considering it's a luxury brand.

[coppice]

Most people don't live in the EU.

A very large portion of Dyson customers likely do, considering it's a luxury brand.

Dyson sell a LOT of stuff in Asia. Its a go to brand for people who want to show off that they can afford stuff, and care a lot less whether the stuff is any good.

[GreyWoolfe]

I live in Murica and I am not rich by any standard.  My wife just wanted a nice vacuum and the Dyson fits the bill.  She's happy, I'm happy.

[james_s]

Dyson is very popular in the US too. We have two of them, one AC powered upright and one of those portable battery powered ones. Both have worked very well, best vacuum cleaners I've owned, never had a problem with either one. My mom has one of the portables too which has also held up well.

If they do fail I think there's a reasonable chance I can repair it.

[BradC]

The part that tends to fail is (of course) the battery itself. I rebuilt one a few months back and I was surprised that they used really cheap 18650s - only 1.5Ah as compared to 2.2Ah for the replacements. (I actually added a 6S2P pack in parallel with the existing 6S1P pack.) It was one of the first ones so I think they purposely crippled it in order to sell an "upgraded" version a few years later.

I think you'll find that super high discharge 18650 with a capacity > 1.5Ah are a "relatively" recent innovation. Certainly most of my tools upto a year or two ago all had 1.5Ah cells in them. Sure, my laptops have had >2Ah cells in them forever, but those cells don't do 20A without things getting funky. Power tool cells are a whole 'nother ball of wax.

[Avacee]

Turns out the "claim" by TomTom that your device would receive "Lifetime updates" was based on a marketing w***er's definition of lifetime* compared to a normal person's.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/42859546

Selected quote from article:
A number of customers with TomTom sat-navs have been told that their devices will no longer receive map updates.
"Your maps will become out-of-date and as such navigation will be less accurate," the firm told customers.
"It has become clear that some of our older generation navigation devices do not have sufficient resources to run the newest maps and software."
Some devices that were on sale in 2017 will stop being updated and the BBC has asked TomTom for comment.
The firm has published a list of affected models online.
List here: https://www.tomtom.com/en_gb/obsolete-products/

*Lifetime means the useful life of the device, i.e. the period of time TomTom supports your device with updates, services, content or accessories. A device will have reached the end of its life when none of these are available any more. You need a PC with an Internet Connection and a MyTomTom account to download new maps and updates. For more information, visit tomtom.com/lifetime

Not that what I see as an underhand move bothers me as I took my TomTom apart years ago as I now use GoogleMaps and HereMaps on Android but I could have sworn when reading the literature that came with my TomTom that lifetime implied several decades, rather than until the data format changed.

[rsjsouza]

Turns out the "claim" by TomTom that your device would receive "Lifetime updates" was based on a marketing w***er's definition of lifetime* compared to a normal person's.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/42859546

Selected quote from article:
A number of customers with TomTom sat-navs have been told that their devices will no longer receive map updates.
"Your maps will become out-of-date and as such navigation will be less accurate," the firm told customers.
"It has become clear that some of our older generation navigation devices do not have sufficient resources to run the newest maps and software."
Some devices that were on sale in 2017 will stop being updated and the BBC has asked TomTom for comment.
The firm has published a list of affected models online.
List here: https://www.tomtom.com/en_gb/obsolete-products/

*Lifetime means the useful life of the device, i.e. the period of time TomTom supports your device with updates, services, content or accessories. A device will have reached the end of its life when none of these are available any more. You need a PC with an Internet Connection and a MyTomTom account to download new maps and updates. For more information, visit tomtom.com/lifetime

Not that what I see as an underhand move bothers me as I took my TomTom apart years ago as I now use GoogleMaps and HereMaps on Android but I could have sworn when reading the literature that came with my TomTom that lifetime implied several decades, rather than until the data format changed.

Interesting, thanks for sharing.

I know several of the satnavs use embedded Linux under the hood and, as the kernel and device driver support wanes, I imagine it becomes quite difficult to keep the maintenance, especially if the newer maps require heaps more memory as the database keeps increasing.

Regardless, each company defines "lifetime support" on their terms (even Fluke) and it may be probably part of that licensing agreement that nobody reads. I have a TomTom Via 125, which I suspect will be next in the chopping block as it already can't hold the complete North America maps due to the lack of flash memory, and trying to expand using a SD card makes it terribly unstable.

[tooki]

You don't know who AvE is?

No. Any reason why I should? I don't watch this kind of thing very often.

He’s one of the most famous mechanical/electrical teardown youtubers. His humor, which at first sounds like an uneducated buffoon, is actually extremely deliberate, and it’s like family guy, where the humor doesn’t become apparent until you’ve watched a few episodes. Then you realize how brilliant it is!

[Bud]

Most people don't live in the EU.

A very large portion of Dyson customers likely do, considering it's a luxury brand.

In Canada it is sold in Walmart, the cheapest junk store.

[james_s]

Walmart sells a huge variety of things, a lot of it is cheap junk but they sell some good stuff too. I'm not trying to defend Walmart or their business practices but the fact that they carry a particular product doesn't mean that product is junk.

[GreyWoolfe]

Turns out the "claim" by TomTom that your device would receive "Lifetime updates" was based on a marketing w***er's definition of lifetime* compared to a normal person's.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/42859546

Selected quote from article:
A number of customers with TomTom sat-navs have been told that their devices will no longer receive map updates.
"Your maps will become out-of-date and as such navigation will be less accurate," the firm told customers.
"It has become clear that some of our older generation navigation devices do not have sufficient resources to run the newest maps and software."
Some devices that were on sale in 2017 will stop being updated and the BBC has asked TomTom for comment.
The firm has published a list of affected models online.
List here: https://www.tomtom.com/en_gb/obsolete-products/

*Lifetime means the useful life of the device, i.e. the period of time TomTom supports your device with updates, services, content or accessories. A device will have reached the end of its life when none of these are available any more. You need a PC with an Internet Connection and a MyTomTom account to download new maps and updates. For more information, visit tomtom.com/lifetime

Not that what I see as an underhand move bothers me as I took my TomTom apart years ago as I now use GoogleMaps and HereMaps on Android but I could have sworn when reading the literature that came with my TomTom that lifetime implied several decades, rather than until the data format changed.

My Garmin Nuvi is about 4 years old now.  Just did an update earlier in the week.  I've borrowed a TomTom, didn't really like it.

[Mr. Scram]

In Canada it is sold in Walmart, the cheapest junk store.

If you're selling vacuum cleaners generally a few times more expensive than other typical vacuum cleaners it's a luxury product.

[langwadt]

We get a lot more BS from unscrupulous German car manufacturers like Volkswagen who conned people the world over with their slick marketing and false advertising while they were secretly gassing people with nitrous oxide. Most of us would not have had the reason, test equipment, resources or education to disprove their BS, but someone fortunately smelled a rat. I guess most of us electronics people are more resistant to BS, but we are not bullet proof.

I was disappointed that they got caught actually. VW found a way to get around the draconian anti-diesel emissions laws we have in the US. Not to say that I think there shouldn't be emissions laws but ours are heavily biased against specific types of emissions produced by diesel engines. It ignores the fact that the higher fuel economy means less total emissions. Not to mention the latest crop of gasoline direct injection engines produce relatively high NOX levels but our regulations focus on particulates.

bollocks, Gasoline engine has always had far lower limits for NOx than diesels and gasoline engines run 3-way catalyst to reduce NOx which diesels can't. Diesel has higher energy content than gasoline per volume so the "higher fuel economy" isn't quite like what it seems

The reason to focus on NOx and particulates is that they are dangerous now 

[GeorgeOfTheJungle]

Bollocks, Gasoline engine has always had far lower limits for NOx than diesels and gasoline engines run 3-way catalyst to reduce NOx which diesels can't. Diesel has higher energy content than gasoline per volume so the "higher fuel economy" isn't quite like what it seems

The reason to focus on NOx and particulates is that they are dangerous now 

"It all boils down to too much focus on CO2 which lead to downsized turbo diesels emitting far more NOX and particles which lead to the bad air in Europe. CO2 is not a pollutant, however NOX and particles are very bad pollutants. Next in line to further decrease CO2 form cars come downsized turbo GDI (gas direct injection) engines and they emit much more ultrafine particles and NOX than regular natural aspirated engines with PFI (port fuel injection) and even more than some Euro6 diesels with particle filter"

http://www.evo.co.uk/features/18753/is-engine-downsizing-finally-falling-out-of-fashion

[Mr. Scram]

"It all boils down to too much focus on CO2 which lead to downsized turbo diesels emitting far more NOX and particles which lead to the bad air in Europe. CO2 is not a pollutant, however NOX and particles are very bad pollutants. Next in line to further decrease CO2 form cars come downsized turbo GDI (gas direct injection) engines and they emit much more ultrafine particles and NOX than regular natural aspirated engines with PFI (port fuel injection) and even more than some Euro6 diesels with particle filter"

http://www.evo.co.uk/features/18753/is-engine-downsizing-finally-falling-out-of-fashion

It's a bit like when foods are fat free, but get stuffed full of sugar, or are sugar free and are full of fats and other stuff. Making it everything-free rarely happens. Well, I guess I could sell you some water and balloons.

[Bud]

Walmart sells a huge variety of things, a lot of it is cheap junk but they sell some good stuff too. I'm not trying to defend Walmart or their business practices but the fact that they carry a particular product doesn't mean that product is junk.

That may be the case in the US. In Canada Walmart does not have same wide nomenclature of products.

[Mr. Scram]

That may be the case in the US. In Canada Walmart does not have same wide nomenclature of products.

I've not seen nomenclature used in that way. Do you mean something like "the reputation of having a broad assortment"?

[dmills]

Next in line to further decrease CO2 form cars come downsized turbo GDI (gas direct injection) engines and they emit much more ultrafine particles and NOX than regular natural aspirated engines with PFI (port fuel injection) and even more than some Euro6 diesels with particle filter"

Ultimately for any air breathing carnot cycle plant the trade off is between combustion temperature (More makes for better thermodynamic efficiency) and NOx generation (The hotter you burn the more you favour the creation of nitrogen oxides), where to target this point is a mixture of political and economic decision making. Diesel vs Petrol is a side issue, the real question is how hot do you allow people to run the hot side of the cycle?

If the focus is on CO2 you burn really hot to obtain good thermodynamic efficiency, at the expense of NOx, if NOx is the focus you burn at low pressure and rather rich to get low peak temperatures and low efficiency (so more CO2) but less NOx generation.

Regards, Dan.