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Credit Card, Bank Card NFC. The most useless function every invented

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ve7xen:

--- Quote from: dunkemhigh on March 27, 2022, 08:48:41 pm ---I would see it as the phone showing a QR code which the payment terminal scans and then contacts the user's bank to authorize a transfer, the bank does the transfer, then the vendor sees that it's paid for. Things like Tesco Pay are almost there. Previously it would have been unheard of because of the 2-5day transfer timescale, but nowadays I can get notification from my bank that I've just spent money at Tesco before I've pulled the phone away from the reader.

The reverse could work: the payment  terminal shows the QR code which the phone scans. Either way the phone has a link to the bank, a does the vendor, so it's all matched up in realtime.

--- End quote ---

What do you see as being better with this scheme than with NFC? It's only going to be remotely secure if the code is one-time-use and also requires a round-trip through your bank for manual authorization. So then it depends on your phone's Internet service, your bank's app or SMS or whatever authorization mechanism and so on all working properly. It seems a lot more likely to cause delays / issues at checkout, and it's definitely more cumbersome than the existing contactless payment scheme.

Going the other way where the vendor shows a code with the amount and their recipient account details and you authorize the transaction on your phone seems more reasonable, but still depends on the bank's app and the Internet, and still more cumbersome and not substantially different than NFC.

PlainName:

--- Quote ---What do you see as being better with this scheme than with NFC?
--- End quote ---

It ain't NFC.

Technically that's irrelevant, but if someone is convinced that 5G causes covid19 then they're not going to accept that NFC on a phone is a bit different to NFC on a card which is really tricky to subvert anyway.

And, as mentioned just a tiny little bit before your post (do you actually read stuff before skipping to the end and posting?) some phones don't do NFC.

Halcyon:

--- Quote from: dunkemhigh on March 28, 2022, 10:45:44 am ---
--- Quote ---Australian Consumer Law applies to any company who sells a product or provides a service in Australia, regardless whether or not the company is based or headquartered in Australia. So yes, companies such as Aliexpress, Amazon etc... are still bound by the legislation here if they choose to offer their products for sale in Australia.
--- End quote ---

But technically they are not offering a service in Australia - you are going to their website in China and importing yourself. Further, what penalty can Australia action against Aliexpress? I guess they could stop any import from there, but that's a rather big stick for, say, a camera that broke after 3 months.

The situation with Amazon isn't very clear - they are not reselling anything, just handling what are essentially adverts. Sometimes they act as drop shipper, but often they don't handle the goods in any way. The closest they get is acting as a money broker (like PayPay, and I'm pretty sure PayPal isn't responsible for whatever you decide to import).

--- End quote ---

They would still be considered a reseller, same as Amazon and eBay. Although ACL doesn't apply to auctions or private sales between individuals.

A shitty camera off Aliexpress is also unlikely to pass the test of "reasonable quality" under the law. If you pay $20 for a camera and it lasts 3 months, that's probably going to be "reasonable" in the circumstances. If you pay $2000 for a camera, then it's not reasonable for it to last only 3 months. In that instance, you could go back to the manufacturer of the product (even if you didn't buy it directly from them) to seek a remedy. In my experience, most decent companies who care about their reputation will understand their obligations under consumer law and do the right thing. Even car dealers and manufacturers are slowly starting to get with the program.

Berni:

--- Quote from: dunkemhigh on March 28, 2022, 10:49:58 am ---
--- Quote ---I already have this. My phone emulates a NFC Visa debit card using an app.
--- End quote ---

But it's still NFC, which is the bad boy. Although on a phone you can control when it's actually transacting. My new phone, which I don't use, has NFC but my favourite which I use all the time doesn't. Sometimes life's a bitch :)

I agree about the hassle of getting the app going and paying for stuff, but if you don't want to use NFC on card, or just not have to carry them, it's a reasonable solution.

--- End quote ---

What makes NFC trough an app worse than a QR code?

In both cases the phone and POS terminal have to communicate in some way to make the transaction happen. Only difference being that NFC is bidirectional so the phone can hand back the approved and signed transaction key directly to the terminal while the QR code method goes back trough the internet. In both cases the phone app is the middle man to make things happen and in both cases a server in the internet in involved to execute the transaction. Both are immune to skimming (by listening to NFC data or your internet data trough a fake cell tower) since the data is only relevant for that one transaction, so it can't be used to complete an extra fraudulent transaction.

Only thing is that to scan a QR code you have to aim your phone at it, sometimes having issues with lighting and glare. On the other hand NFC just needs to be plonked down against the terminal.

tooki:
1. Because there are crazies who think anything wireless is going to kill them.
2. Because there are people who think NFC can be easily skimmed while their card or device is still in their pocket.

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