General > General Technical Chat
Credit Card, Bank Card NFC. The most useless function every invented
PlainName:
--- Quote ---What makes NFC trough an app worse than a QR code?
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Lack of NFC hardware (said for the third time already)?
Berni:
--- Quote from: dunkemhigh on March 29, 2022, 01:33:54 pm ---
--- Quote ---What makes NFC trough an app worse than a QR code?
--- End quote ---
Lack of NFC hardware (said for the third time already)?
--- End quote ---
So does NFC then win a point for the lack of camera hardware?
The NFC hardware in a phone only does something when the phone tells it to like all the other RF interfaces on a phone (and can be turned off completely much like bluetooth or wifi) Even when turned on my phone the NFC only appears to work once the phone is active (as in lock screen unlocked). Then when you actually want to pay at a POS terminal using NFC the app has to take over control of the NFC interface to make it emulate a tag (rather than the normal operation as a tag reader). So the NFC is not running at all when the phone is in the pocket, let alone making banking card data available.
As for the people concerned with electromagnetic radiation the NFC is the lowest power transmitter in the whole phone. The WiFi chipset can pump out 100mW at 2.4GHz while the cellular chipset can pump out >2W of RF power at lots of bands from 900MHz to 3500MHz, yet you hold that right up against your head when making a phone call.
PlainName:
--- Quote ---So does NFC then win a point for the lack of camera hardware?
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If you had a device with NFC and no camera, sure. A smart watch, for example, might do it.
--- Quote ---The NFC hardware in a phone only does something when the phone tells it to like all the other RF interfaces on a phone
--- End quote ---
Ha! You really haven't read previous messages but just dived in.
--- Quote from: dunkemhigh on March 28, 2022, 10:49:58 am ---But it's still NFC, which is the bad boy. Although on a phone you can control when it's actually transacting.
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--- Quote ---As for the people concerned with electromagnetic radiation the NFC is the lowest power transmitter in the whole phone.
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Doesn't matter. The people you need to explain that to aren't going to listen to reason or science. If they were then you'd not have to explain it in the first place, see.
ve7xen:
--- Quote from: dunkemhigh on March 28, 2022, 07:03:32 pm ---It ain't NFC.
Technically that's irrelevant, but if someone is convinced that 5G causes covid19 then they're not going to accept that NFC on a phone is a bit different to NFC on a card which is really tricky to subvert anyway.
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I mean yeah, I guess if you're trying to appease irrational people whose preferences make no sense, you can come up with many alternative schemes that have no real advantages. They will probably come up with some reason that QR codes are mind control or something next. There's no point in trying to appease them, and our widespread technological infrastructure certainly shouldn't.
The end user isn't even the one financially on the hook if things go wrong, they really have no say over it. If I had my way they'd get rid of their stupid SMS-based OTP for every $10 transaction online and replace it with standards-based TOTP, but that's not my decision to make, as frustrating as it is.
--- Quote ---And, as mentioned just a tiny little bit before your post (do you actually read stuff before skipping to the end and posting?) some phones don't do NFC.
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Indeed, and that is why many credit cards have NFC built-in. It's the same thing. Are you following what this thread is about? I missed the part where the conspiracy nuts and their complete misunderstanding of the technology entered the conversation as a serious concern.
PlainName:
--- Quote ---I missed the part where the conspiracy nuts and their complete misunderstanding of the technology entered the conversation
--- End quote ---
--- Quote from: edtyler on March 05, 2022, 03:43:15 am ---Overall, I'd agree that the risk is low and does require a terminal to submit the fraudulent transactions. The fact that detected fraud has gone down does not necessarily mean that undetected fraud is not present.
One thing I have noticed about NFC transactions if that the user rarely gets a paper receipt showing the amount charged for later comparison against the bank statement. They are too concerned about convenience. I'd expect these folks don't even review their credit/debit card statements. So, there is a greater chance for undetected fraud.
I advise people that are concerned about this issue to either request non-NFC cards or drill a hole to break the antenna. My (45 and 30) kids love the ease of use. I am much more concerned about security than they are. To each, their own...
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You're welcome.
One reason I suggested QR codes is because my bank uses them effectively to perform 2FA using a phone. My local supermarket uses them for purchases (to perform the same function as NFC). My phone doesn't have NFC and my PC doesn't have an NFC reader, so QR code has made life a lot easier for me. If your phone has NFC and you use it then you may not fully appreciate what the lack of same means when you'd like to use that feature and can't. Maybe like if your PC only had a trackpad instead of a mouse.
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