Curious Cables

[EEVblog]

I thought it was going to be a good aussie piss-take after the first smirk, but there was no punch line. He's serious.

[Halcyon]

Oh yes, he is deadly serious. Serious about taking money off fools who don't know any better. What irks me the most is people who take actual real terms such as "sound stage" and bastardise them to mean absolutely nothing.

This reminds me of a conversation on radio 2GB (talkback radio) not long ago. They were discussing the legal implications of people who give "spiritual" advice, tarot readers, etc... etc... basically, it came down to the fact that such bullshit has not (yet) been tested in court. In a nutshell, if the person giving the advice truly believes whatever to be true as opposed to obtaining a benefit by deception, then it's lawful, regardless of the actual outcome. How do you disprove it? It's not illegal to be a nutcase or believe in Hocus Pocus.

Same goes for this bloke... if he truly believes he can hear a difference (whether it actually exists or not is beside the point), is he acting in a fraudulent manner? According to the law, no. Even if he was bullshitting everyone (which anyone with half a brain will realise), how do you prove it beyond a balance of probabilities?

[tautech]

Needs debunking Dave.

[Muttley Snickers]

Just in case nobody was aware those curious cables are only for serious suckers, he could be the lead singer in a band if he wanted with those sleight of hand movements, Midnight Snake Oil perhaps.

A drivel search reveals that it's no wonder they are able to offer free return shipping if the customer isn't satisfied, they can easily afford to at the prices they are asking for these things, just ridiculous.



 

[EEVblog]

Needs debunking Dave.

I want to. But I don't want to give these scammers money, or any publicity at all. They will quote mine any review/debunking.
And of course they will simply argue "but you have to listen to it 

[tautech]

Needs debunking Dave.

I want to. But I don't want to give these scammers money, or any publicity at all. They will quote mine any review/debunking.
And of course they will simply argue "but you have to listen to it 

Have you done a vid on Audiofoolery ?
Surely you've got some equipment to measure and prove their claimed BS is bogus. 

[alsetalokin4017]

There is a real problem here. I mean, sure, the claims that the _cables_ themselves can make the sound better is bogus and can be proven with double-blind testing. But the problem is this: the _claim itself_ and the cost of the cables can make the user _believe_  and swear up and down that the sound is improved when they know that the special cables are in use! So, subjectively, they "work", even though they don't work by the mechanism that the sellers claim and no objective measurement can show a difference. If you say something sounds better to you than before, who am I to argue with that?

Sure, we would say it's entirely a placebo effect, and we'd be right. And the effect would probably go away, or not be so strong, if the cables were as cheaply priced as "ordinary cables". So the high cost is part of the _actual_ mechanism by which they "work". Ditto the wordgames that claim "headroom" or "sound stage" or other enhancements. If you didn't have those kinds of phrases showing up in the testimonial "evidence", your placebo effect would be reduced.

So... in a sense, the cables do work! Buy a set and hear for yourself! (just kidding......)   

[Brumby]

Needs debunking Dave.

I want to. But I don't want to give these scammers money, or any publicity at all. They will quote mine any review/debunking.
And of course they will simply argue "but you have to listen to it 

Of course such scammers will say that.  A subjective listening 'test' is the only way they could have any hope of influencing the opinion of the listener ... because that's all that the 'test' would be able to show.

I also support Dave in leaving this alone.  He's never going to get an indisputable result - because the very basis of the scammer's claims lie outside objective assessment.  It's a no win situation.

[Brumby]

I just realised .... I don't use any USB cables when I listen to audio off my computer.

Does that mean I'm already getting superior sound - or do I have to find a way of running the data stream through one of these curious cables?

[EEVblog]

Have you done a vid on Audiofoolery ?

Famously. A very old rant.
I'm first hit on youtube for audiophool.

[EEVblog]

Surely you've got some equipment to measure and prove their claimed BS is bogus. 

You can't debunk audiophoolery. The placebo effect is real.

[edy]

Don't you know, it's because the electromagnetic dielectric quantum field alignment of the cable atomic nuclei result in a smoothed flow of electrons and synchronization of the heterodyne asyncotropic Flux! Duh! It's obvious to any 5 year old!     

[tggzzz]

Surely you've got some equipment to measure and prove their claimed BS is bogus. 

You can't debunk audiophoolery. The placebo effect is real.

Just so.

Even "worse": often the placebo works even when the recipient is told it is a placebo.

[mikeselectricstuff]

I bet if you advertised a suitably wanky looking cable ( maybe a range at different price points) , but made no specific claims whatsoever about it, and offered a money-back guarantee, you'd still sell some.

I know of someone taking a similarly cynical approach to woo-woo gadgets, making no claims at all, only including a couple of popular buzzwords,  selling at an affordable price, and offering money back if not satisfied. He's sold thousands and not had a single return.

Sometimes makes you feel like you're in the wrong business....
 

[StuUK]

Sometimes makes you feel like you're in the wrong business....

Yep, unfortunately my conscience keeps getting in the way 

[VK5RC]

I always like how the words,  quest,  challenge,  extensive research,  development and I couldn't listen all the way through to see if the ultimate 'quantum'  was in there!

[TerraHertz]

You can't debunk audiophoolery. The placebo effect is real.

More like Choice-supportive bias, Confirmation bias, Bandwagon effect, Framing effect, Illusory truth effect, Irrational escalation, Subjective validation, Authority bias   (and more.)   https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cognitive_biases

But that Wiki list has a problem, in that it's missing the Fricken Moron effect, which is the one most applicable to anyone thinking a USB cable is going to make any difference to an audio stream.

[mikeselectricstuff]

Something that might be an interesting challenge - see if it's possible to make a USB cable that sounds audibly worse while still basically reliably working.

[jeroen79]

Easy, just use a _reverse_ placebo effect:

Explain in detail which inferior materials you used and how unskilled your laborers are.
Tell how you went on an afternoon long quest to pick the cheapest parts from some overseas supplier's website.
Make it look like any other cable with an ordinary, boring grey plastic sleeve.
Put a very low price on it.
And have it presented by an uncharismatic engineer who will use a lot of proper technical terms instead of words that appeal to the audiophile user.
Bluntly state to the listener that he is not capable of making any distinction in the first place.
Present testimonials stating how horrible the cable sounded.

No technical design needed.

Regarding these guys being fraudsters, has anyone tested their claims about special alloys and such?

As USB can transfer data both ways, wouldn't these be bi-curious cables?

[rfbroadband]

unbelievable...maybe one should ask him if these cables were especially tuned towards USB device classes 0x01, 0x10 and 0xeh, but should under no circumstances be used for USB device class 0x3h etc

[gamalot]

I thought this kind of things only happen in China (especially in Hong Kong and Guangdong province ).   

[karoru]

You can't debunk audiophoolery. The placebo effect is real.

I couldn't agree more. I tended to ignore most of it, as usually it's actually harmless (if someone wants to use 0 AWG wires covered by some ultra-tarot-quantum cloth to increase their speakers bass response, who cares? It's their money and copper deposit) but I engaged once or twice in discussion on one of newest trends - audiophile grade fuses. Using expensive fuses that don't actually have any serious certification is one thing - as long as wire has semi-right diameter and material it will do its job, but there are people that bridge fuses in their amplifiers to get even more clearer (or whatever fairytale term) sound. Fire hazard isn't an issue that is worth considering in golden-eared people community and discussion about it ends with "if you can't hear the difference then shut up, it's worth it".

[SL4P]

i'm concerned that he doesn't offer* a diclaimer for North/South hemisphere operation.
The winding, twist of the conductors will obviously be affected by the Earth's magnetic field... 

* does he?

[Cerebus]

Something that might be an interesting challenge - see if it's possible to make a USB cable that sounds audibly worse while still basically reliably working.

Interesting, because that's 'falsifiability' - a cornerstone of the scientific method. If you can't make it sound worse with a USB cable then you can't make it sound better with one.

[station240]

I have one idea Dave could make a video on.
Produce a DIY guide on how to make these cloth covered fancy looking cables.
Perhaps the 1% of audiophools who only buy things for looks might realise how easy they are to make and question the insane prices

I did find this one
http://www.instructables.com/id/Cloth-Covered-Banana-Cables/