Dab radio

[Precipice]

Yeah - that's all about LEO, though, where the problem is very real and immediate.
GEO's out at 36,000km, compared to ISS's 400km or so... Granted, GEO's pretty much in a belt, rather than a sphere, but at least everything's going in the same direction

(Anyone with actual knowledge - please educate me! All I remember is first-order stuff, I've got no doubt it's massively more complex in reality)

[Hydrawerk]

OK, now please back to DAB+. 

[Wilksey]

Unfortunately in the UK a lot of car's don't come with DAB as standard, Ford seemed to be the only one offering the Sony head unit in their Titanium / Ghia models, but then it was only a few years back that MP3 capable stereos were being advertised as standard.

I have a Pure DAB radio which does work well, picks up all the stations and it is clear, and I have driven cars with DAB, and you do get some blackspots, I don't have DAB in my own car, and I can't say I miss it.

I don't think there is a massive issue for coverage with regards to portable radio's but I have had on-the-fence experiences with car ones due to the blackspots.

[coppice]

Anyone remember Worldspace digital radio ? It has died and the company went into liquidation. Hillarious stories of how to deal with the defunct satellites have followed. NASA threatening all manner of action and demanding de-orbiting for which there is no money available.

Worldspace was always good for hilarious stories. I think they launched satellites as a precursor to working out a business model. The radios I tried would only work with a clear line of sight view of the satellite - a pretty severe restriction for any urban users.

At one point they tried marketing to the huge number of Filipino migrant workers spread over much of Asia, so they could listen to radio stations from their homeland. Nice idea, expect they were marketing an expensive radio to a pool of people mostly working on low salaries in dense cities.

[n45048]

i go to a lot of boot sales .i have noticed a lot of Dab radio's for sale , some of them quite good brand names.why is this  ? .what's your experience with dab ?

DAB is an old standard which uses the MPEG2 codec. DAB+ and DRM are replacing DAB in a lot of countries which uses the far more efficient HE-AAC codec. You'll probably find people are offloading their old legacy DAB receivers (which don't support DAB+ or DRM) while they still can.

For example, Australia broadcasts their digital stations using the DAB+ standard. The Swiss are migrating from DAB to DAB+ (with DAB switch-off to occur in 2015) and the Germans have been rolling out DAB+ since 2011. Curiously, the UK have decided to stick with DAB at 128Kbps (which doesn't come close to CD quality) rather than adopting the newer standards. Although this year, some broadcasters in the UK have started trialling DAB+, so I dare say change might eventually be in the air (pun intended).

[Hydrawerk]

I live in Europe, there is some DAB+ present. But only few people actually own a DAB+ receiver. And they are not much displayed in shops.

[n45048]

I live in Europe, there is some DAB+ present. But only few people actually own a DAB+ receiver. And they are not much displayed in shops.

A lot of the newer DAB radios will support DAB+ (you just need to check the specs). The earlier ones didn't.

[n45048]

The UK has managed to kill DAB pretty effectively for cars. First you have reception issues, which will be blamed on the car manufacturer so they would rather just stick with analogue that everyone understands the limitations of. Then you have DAB+, which looks like it might fix the reception problems but will make all the current DAB receivers obsolete so probably won't be widely adopted any time soon.

It's a catch-22 isn't it? The AAC codec handles packet loss and BER far better than the MPEG standard does, not to mention much better quality at lower bit rates. But no one is willing to make the first leap which it why the UK is being left behind.

I think it'll happen, it just might take a while.

Sounds like our National Broadband Network really ;-)

[AndyC_772]

I can't see it happening, the incentive just isn't there.

For home use, we now have internet streaming radio, which offers a wide selection of stations and no inherent limit on bit rate. A better DAB doesn't offer anything new.

For car use, streaming internet may well happen anyway; it'll depend on the roll-out of 4G and whether or not the networks can manage an infrastructure that actually delivers the rates of which the technology is capable, rather than just being able to tick a box that says "yes, this area is covered by a 4G signal" despite the backhaul relying on Morse operators and carrier pigeons.

The BBC already has perfectly good coverage on FM, so the real (ie. commercial) benefit of a better DAB would be the ability to stream more adverts into cars. Since the ads are the very reason I rarely listen to commercial radio anyway, I can't see the market being there to support a new technology roll-out.

[n45048]

I can't see it happening, the incentive just isn't there.

For home use, we now have internet streaming radio, which offers a wide selection of stations and no inherent limit on bit rate. A better DAB doesn't offer anything new.

For car use, streaming internet may well happen anyway; it'll depend on the roll-out of 4G and whether or not the networks can manage an infrastructure that actually delivers the rates of which the technology is capable, rather than just being able to tick a box that says "yes, this area is covered by a 4G signal" despite the backhaul relying on Morse operators and carrier pigeons.

The BBC already has perfectly good coverage on FM, so the real (ie. commercial) benefit of a better DAB would be the ability to stream more adverts into cars. Since the ads are the very reason I rarely listen to commercial radio anyway, I can't see the market being there to support a new technology roll-out.

That's a whole different kettle of fish, but you make some good points.

I have it on good authority (i.e.: a representative of Telstra), that our largest Telco don't really want users flooding its wireless networks. Which is why their data packs and wireless internet plans are ridiculously priced. If it's cheap, the demand will increase, which means the cell towers are inundated and their links flooded. It's a fine balance between profit and having to fork out for upgrades.

[Hydrawerk]

5. There are plenty of really cr*p DAB radios on the market that disappoint.

There are many radios, that are not cheap, but they have a bloody small speaker for the price. The reception is excelent but speaker is crap. OK, you can use headphones.
There are very few DAB radios that have a big speaker and a nice sound like this Panasonic RF-3500 introduced in 1995. LOL, I know that this RF-3500 has no DAB+, but the sound quality is very good for the price. My grandma has this since 2010 or so.

[n45048]

It's because we do things half heartedly.

Sadly that's true. Which is why I've switched off from TV and Radio (actually the only channels I listen to are on AM).

We don't even have proper HD channels in Australia and even on the 1080i channels, by the time it gets to us, the amount of compression makes the image look rubbish.

[VK3DRB]

DAB+ is brilliant. After hearing DAB+ on a good radio, you will never go back to crappy AM or FM. I am not sure whether new cars in Australia have DAB+ yet. If they haven't they are way behind the times. We own several DAB+/internet radios. I have DAB+ in the car which I installed as an add-on 4 years ago.

If you have DAB+ in your area, don't waste your money on a radio with a $2 speaker. It defeats the purpose to some extent. Pay a little more and get a good radio and you won't regret it.

I listen to the BBC World Service everyday via SBS4 here in Melbourne. 24/7 BBC for free, in the car or in the home, paid for by the British taxpayer . Only problem is when the nauseating Eurovision Song Contest appears each year, SBS switches over to Eurocrap for one month. When this happens, I switch over to the internet BBC World Service - not quite as good sound as the DAB+ but still works on the DAB+/internet radios at home but not in the car.

[Monkeh]

5. There are plenty of really cr*p DAB radios on the market that disappoint.

There are many radios, that are not cheap, but they have a bloody small speaker for the price. The reception is excelent but speaker is crap.

[Hydrawerk]

Pure Evoke 2S looks nice, but it is quite expensive. For the price you can buy a hifi micro system. And it has no USB port for MP3 playback.

[staxquad]

have top Grundig and Sony SW radios, no DAB, but now mostly listen to:

TuneIn on my tablet (apk, but also have the program on my W7 laptop)

radio stations from everywhere,

mostly listen to  1.FM - Otto's Baroque Musick (Switzerland) [64k AAC] and Positively Baroque (US) [128k MP3], and occasionally browse for other stations

use wireless Sennheiser headphones with the tablet and roam around the house, quality of those two stations are good on them

can be an option for some

[steve30]

I'm not a fan of DAB for the bitrate issue, but it can increase the choice of stations. For example, back in 2003, my grandmother bought a neat little Pure Evoke DAB radio so she could listen to BBC 7. My Mum has a more modern Pure DAB radio, made out of pink plastic which looks and feels really silly, and the rotary encoder on the side really isn't very good.

I have a dedicated audio amp and dedicated speakers in my lab, so if I had a DAB radio, it would have to hook up to those (rather than be a standalone unit), but as I mostly listen to some FM-Only stations, I don't really need one  .

[coppice]

I have it on good authority (i.e.: a representative of Telstra), that our largest Telco don't really want users flooding its wireless networks. Which is why their data packs and wireless internet plans are ridiculously priced. If it's cheap, the demand will increase, which means the cell towers are inundated and their links flooded. It's a fine balance between profit and having to fork out for upgrades.

Why is it expensive? Because its not mass market. Why is it not mass market? Because its expensive.

Bandwidth is never really an issue in cellular systems. You just shrink the cell sizes as needed. Some people laugh at that, but the only places you need to shrink the cells are places with lots of people, and therefore lots of potential revenue. If you really want to make good cheap mobile bandwidth available there are reference markets which show it can be done. If they don't have a monopoly, or something close to one, its eventually hard for the telcos to resist actually providing service. If they do have tight control, then keeping high prices and low bandwidth reduces their up front investment, and that will be their preferred approach.

[VK3DRB]

have top Grundig and Sony SW radios, no DAB, but now mostly listen to:

TuneIn on my tablet (apk, but also have the program on my W7 laptop)

radio stations from everywhere,

mostly listen to  1.FM - Otto's Baroque Musick (Switzerland) [64k AAC] and Positively Baroque (US) [128k MP3], and occasionally browse for other stations

use wireless Sennheiser headphones with the tablet and roam around the house, quality of those two stations are good on them

can be an option for some

I listen to Tune-in when I am writing embedded code for hours on end, I find http://tunein.com/radio/TSF-Jazz-899-s16492/ perfect for concentrating... no ads, no announcements. And http://tunein.com/radio/Hotmixradio-Golds-s214967/ isn't bad either.

TSF Jazz does have a reasonable variety of smooth jazz, but most Tune-in stations are a bit repetitive for some reason.

[n45048]

Why is it expensive? Because its not mass market. Why is it not mass market? Because its expensive.

I'd argue that. You'll probably find the majority of mobile subscribers use mobile data, it pretty much goes hand-in-hand with telephony services these days. On top of that you have users in areas with shithouse ADSL lines (and there are a lot of those) who rely on mobile broadband as their primary fixed internet service but every month max out their download limit (on Telstra/Bigpond, it's 15GB/month on their highest plan before shaping to 64Kbps which is absolutely useless even for the most basic website).

I'm by no means a heavy user of mobile internet but I still churn through at least 3GB/month without even trying. (And no, I don't use Facebook, Instagram, et al. Simply a bit of Google Maps/MapQuest, a few VOIP calls and some internet radio when I'm travelling.)

[Hydrawerk]

How are DAB radios made? Is there a Si4688 IC or similar made by Silicon Labs? http://www.silabs.com/products/audio/digital-radio/pages/si468x.aspx

[Hydrawerk]

Please can someone assess the sound reproduction quality of these DAB / FM radios? They are all rated 1 Watt except for the Pure One Mini, that is 1.6 Watt.
Yes, I know that the Panasonic is only FM.

[Fraser]

All equipped with approx 3" drivers so expect appropriately mediocre acoustic performance. This combined with the driver sitting inside a small plastic case guarantees the audio will lack base. I have the PURE model.... nothing special at all.

Acoustic quality relies upon the frequency response of the drivers. A 3" single full range driver is fine for a kitchen radio or for use mobile but you really cannot expect anything approaching Hi-Fi from any unit using such. That is just physics.

And that is before we go anywhere near the performance of the digital receiver and audio amplifier. If you want 'Hi-Fi' you need a larger appliance with decent design and drivers 

Aurora

[steve30]

I've used the Pure One Mini. Sound quality is fine for a small unit. I don't like the mechanical encoder knob/button on the side though.

[Hydrawerk]

Any opinion on Sangean DPR-45? It is one of the few Sangean models with a large speaker and the only with DAB+, FM and MW. It has 15 presets per radio band. I wonder if the output power is really only 1 Watt, when there is a five inch (12 cm) speaker.  The one-line LCD is quite basic. The DPR-45 is rather expensive, though.
Does anyone own the DPR-45 here?
http://www.sangean.eu/products/dab-radios/dpr-45-1.html

https://youtu.be/t3cCov25ips
https://youtu.be/ptDw1stwwro