Data Usage on Mobile Networks

[Halcyon]

Can anyone see a problem with this screen shot?... Apart from data being a total an utter rip-off in Australia.

(Hint: No, I don't have some amazing new 5G handset.)

[Wilksey]

Apart from your mobile network spamming you with messages?

It's an inherent issue here in the UK also, that the speeds are going up, and you can get 4G / 5G (not in the UK yet, still struggling with 3G!) but the data tariffs are still the same, or they want to charge £100 for 10GB of data or something silly, which soon gets eaten!

[Halcyon]

Well according to Telstra, I used 1GB of data within a space of 4 minutes on two occasions. Do the maths and that works out to be impossible. After 35 minutes on the phone, they finally conceded that the notifications were delayed (anywhere from 12-24 hours after the actual data was used) and it was a "system problem". Yet it took a bit more persuasion and two "chats to the supervisor" to get credited a mere $20.

I even had the poor bloke on the phone in stitches when I told him that he knows as well as I do we're talking about refunding 2GB of data, which would have cost Telstra under a dollar and they are squabbling over $20 lost revenue because their system failed to notify me in a timely manner?

A bit of background, I've been a customer of Telstra since I had a Nokia 5110 in 1999. What annoys me more is that even with the highest data pack on the highest available plan, I'm still paying $10 per GB over and above my allowance of 15GB/month. In this day and age, why on earth aren't telco's providing allowances of 100GB/month? No one's asking for unlimited data, most people understand that there is a finite bandwidth per base station and it needs to be shared. But come on! 10% of a normal fixed wire plan isn't so much to ask for.

Also, the reason I'm using "so much" data on my mobile is that I don't have a fixed line to my premises. NBN (fibre to the home) is just around the corner and I don't see the justification in having an old copper ADSL line installed for $300 when it's going to be useless in less than 6 months t.ime. So mobile data is my only economical option at the moment (short of running a network cable next door... hmmm...)

[botcrusher]

Heh!
Here It's nearly impossible to get anything over a gig. Unlimited packages are actually 5Gigs and then basically dialup.

[Halcyon]

Heh!
Here It's nearly impossible to get anything over a gig. Unlimited packages are actually 5Gigs and then basically dialup.

That sucks! I've gone through 40GB this month (given some of it was on a "free data day") but wasn't anything out of the ordinary. No torrents or Netflix. Just caught up on a bunch of Windows updates, an ISO of Ubuntu on top of my regular usage (banking, a bit of EEVblog etc...)

[tszaboo]

For sure, that bucket of data is soo expensive for them, that they need to charge you a lot for it.
3G should be something like 0.1EUR/1GB/1 month, with the possibility to buy lifetime subscription for a single device, if we ever want to reach the goal of a smart, connected world.
I had seen 4G connections, where you could use your entire monthly allowance in something like a few seconds.

[Halcyon]

I had seen 4G connections, where you could use your entire monthly allowance in something like a few seconds.

It's not unheard of here. A guy in Sydney recently made the news by using his LG G4 handset on a free data day and chewed through over 1TB of data in a 24 hour period (25 hours if you count daylight savings).

I have the exact same handset and it just rips through data. The G4 was one of the first few phones to take advantage of the re-allocated analog TV frequency spectrum. Telstra market it as "4GX" but you basically have entire bands all to yourself. Even on marginal 4G reception (around -105dBm) in the outskirts of Sydney I pull on average 25-35Mbps. Apart from in very built-up areas, Telstra's network actually held up pretty well to be completely hosed by people downloading anything and everything for free.

Telstra could quite easily multiply their current quotas by x10 and still maintain a good network, with the added result of having a ton of customers flock to them. Their base stations in most cases are very very well equipped and have decent backbones to cope with such demand. A good test of that are events like New Years Eve in Sydney CBD where millions and millions of people can actually still access the mobile network around midnight.

[StuUK]

Apart from the ridiculous tariffs the other problem is IOS vs Android., When I switched to Android from Apple IOS my data consumption tripled. This seems to be largely down to the 'pull' nature of the notifications etc rather than the IOS push. 

[MrSlack]

I'm on Android and have no data problems other than self inflicted ones (tethering).

It generally depends on who the handset vendor is. Stock Android, so basically only Google and Motorola, isn't a pile of data sucking junk. All the crap the other vendors chuck in and configure is the problem usually. That and Facebook. Facebook is death for any Android device.

Moto G gen 3 here for reference.

[StuUK]

I avoid FB like the plague but not for data sucking reasons.....

[tooki]

What also bugs me is the discrepancy between the mobile carrier's data accounting and the phone's. I see consistently that for every GB the carrier counts, my iPhone's internal data meter counts around 700-800MB. I can only guess that the phone only counts successful transmissions, while the carrier counts lost packets, too? I really don't know. (And I switched to unlimited data a year ago, so it's a moot point now.)

[Halcyon]

What also bugs me is the discrepancy between the mobile carrier's data accounting and the phone's. I see consistently that for every GB the carrier counts, my iPhone's internal data meter counts around 700-800MB. I can only guess that the phone only counts successful transmissions, while the carrier counts lost packets, too? I really don't know. (And I switched to unlimited data a year ago, so it's a moot point now.)

I find the Android usage meter pretty spot on. Both my device and telco seem to count 1GB = 1024MB when it comes to accounting. If anything the handset will count a little extra based on actual data coming in/out of the interface (regardless if transmission was successful or not*). Even still, it seems Telstra notifies you of 100% usage based on 1GB = multiples of 1000MB and triggers an additional 1GB at multiples of 1024MB. So there is that small amount of lee-way.

* Note Android won't attempt transmission if you're out of coverage thus it's not counted but it will attempt to re-associate to the base station; Control channel traffic isn't counted as it sits below the network/transport layers.

[rrinker]

 It's no better anywhere else, they keep upping the costs and lowering the limits. on some strange concept that there's somehow an actual cost associated with this. Luckily my cable modem is not metered, but one of the cable CEOs even tries to associate data usage with fuel consumption. But the sheeple just keep playing along. If a significant number of users would actually stand up, to where the lost revenue from hundreds of thousands of accounts would be significant (they couldn't care less if one person quits in protest, it's not even a drop in the ocean of their revenue), it might cause them to take notice. They pay a fixed price for a data pipe, after that it doesn't matter if the pipe is 10% full, 40% full, or 100% full. Maybe a few cents in electricity if the router has to process more packets. There is no point in offering faster and faster speeds if you can reach your cap in hours instead of days.

 But I do have to wonder what people are doing with their phones. I thought I used mine fairly heavily - 3 email accounts, and I'm forever looking stuff up online. I do tend to connect to wifi whenever possible, but still - I have a 4GB plan with THREE phones on it and I never go over. I don't stream music on my phone, or videos. I see no point in streaming videos on the tiny screen when I can do it on my nice big computer monitor. And streaming music - I have several gigs of music loaded on my device, I can drive across the US and, if I played it all sequentially, never hear the same song twice.

[Rerouter]

On my phone i have the entire worlds map set saved offline, and enough music to not repeat over 4 weeks, so i barely rely on the internet beyond work, (I'm stingy that way),

I'm tied into the works data pool of 47GB and rarely go over 2GB, mainly because i disabled all the crap that came with my phone, and never try using social media, websites like EEVblog really use nothing but a drop in the pond even after many hours, or if i'm reading news sites i use the adblock browser to make sure i'm not loading all there crap,

Equally in most browsers you can set it to not autoplay videos which helped me the most,

Closest offer i know to unlimited was a plan offered in London main airport, 30 pounds for 30 days unlimited roaming data, and i know they meant unlimited as one of the people that went with me got it and tallied 114GB by the 29th day, biggest PITA was come the last day, you could only recharge it in the UK.... so he was cut off half way to navigating to our second last hotel, in a rental car somewhere in the middle of Greece, (Now you see why the world map set)

[coppice]

Well according to Telstra, I used 1GB of data within a space of 4 minutes on two occasions. Do the maths and that works out to be impossible.

1G byte in 240 seconds is about 33Mbps. What's impossible about that on a 4G network? My 4G service is generally much faster than that.

[Halcyon]

Well according to Telstra, I used 1GB of data within a space of 4 minutes on two occasions. Do the maths and that works out to be impossible.

1G byte in 240 seconds is about 33Mbps. What's impossible about that on a 4G network? My 4G service is generally much faster than that.

I sit on the fringe of 4G reception, according to Telstra's maps, I shouldn't be getting it at all, even with an external antenna. I'll hit peaks usually around the 25-35Mbps mark if I'm downloading from a big server (Microsoft etc...) but sustained? No chance I could do 1GB in 4 minutes,

[Rick Law]

This liability actually concerns me.  The lowest per-GB overrun with my phone company (AT&T) is $15/gb-overrun for the very high 50gb/month plan @ $375.  1TB would be $15,000!   I don't have the high GB plan, so my $/gb overrun cost is ungodly.

Say you click on to NetFlix, watching episode 1 of StarTrek/xFile/whatever and you felt asleep.  45 minutes later, it auto-starts episode 2, then episode 3...  I think it stops after a few of them, but even just 3 episode while sleeping could chew away quite a bit of money! 

I wish the phone company has a settable trigger with an account - say when the family-shared account reaches (for example $200) usage, it automatically shuts down.  One can call a voice line and lift/reimpose the limit as appropriate.

I just got a Zenfone 2 laser to experiment/play with.  I am keeping my phone-SIM in my flip phone.  My dual SIM Zenfone doesn't have a single SIM in it - WiFi only.

[TheSteve]

Heh!
Here It's nearly impossible to get anything over a gig. Unlimited packages are actually 5Gigs and then basically dialup.

Koodo, Manitoba plan, it is as good as it gets...

[rrinker]

This liability actually concerns me.  The lowest per-GB overrun with my phone company (AT&T) is $15/gb-overrun for the very high 50gb/month plan @ $375.  1TB would be $15,000!   I don't have the high GB plan, so my $/gb overrun cost is ungodly.

Say you click on to NetFlix, watching episode 1 of StarTrek/xFile/whatever and you felt asleep.  45 minutes later, it auto-starts episode 2, then episode 3...  I think it stops after a few of them, but even just 3 episode while sleeping could chew away quite a bit of money! 

I wish the phone company has a settable trigger with an account - say when the family-shared account reaches (for example $200) usage, it automatically shuts down.  One can call a voice line and lift/reimpose the limit as appropriate.

I just got a Zenfone 2 laser to experiment/play with.  I am keeping my phone-SIM in my flip phone.  My dual SIM Zenfone doesn't have a single SIM in it - WiFi only.

 Fat chance the carriers would ever put anything like that in place. It would kill their ripoff revenue stream.

[Someone]

Also, the reason I'm using "so much" data on my mobile is that I don't have a fixed line to my premises. NBN (fibre to the home) is just around the corner and I don't see the justification in having an old copper ADSL line installed for $300 when it's going to be useless in less than 6 months t.ime. So mobile data is my only economical option at the moment (short of running a network cable next door... hmmm...)

Telstra are promising that new (current) ADSL installs will be cutover to NBN for free, they will save huge money by not having to maintain the copper network.

[Halcyon]

Also, the reason I'm using "so much" data on my mobile is that I don't have a fixed line to my premises. NBN (fibre to the home) is just around the corner and I don't see the justification in having an old copper ADSL line installed for $300 when it's going to be useless in less than 6 months t.ime. So mobile data is my only economical option at the moment (short of running a network cable next door... hmmm...)

Telstra are promising that new (current) ADSL installs will be cutover to NBN for free, they will save huge money by not having to maintain the copper network.

I think most ISP are offering this to existing customers, however I very much doubt it will be fibre to the home. It'll be copper to the street node then fibre the rest of the way. At least this way, if I hold off doing anything now, I can just pay to have glass run to my home, rather than copper now, fibre later.

[tszaboo]

It's no better anywhere else, they keep upping the costs and lowering the limits. on some strange concept that there's somehow an actual cost associated with this

Yes, this is the strangest. Like you phone from anouther country, and suddenly it takes the data more effort to reach the endpoint, so you need to pay 10x more. Someone with a brain in the EU actually realized the absurdity of this, and now EU is getting rid of the roaming costs. They do something right maybe by accident (they are politicians after all).
I understand that broadband towers are not grown from seed, but they need to build it, and there is actually power needed to transmit the data. Soo much power, that my phone can do it from a battery. dBm-s aside, they ask ridiculous amount of money for data. Like SMS... they actually charge money for it.

[borjam]

Be very careful with the web pages you visit. Many push tons of stupid ads, even with video, and you can eat a lot of bandwidth (and battery!) quickly.

[Halcyon]

It's no better anywhere else, they keep upping the costs and lowering the limits. on some strange concept that there's somehow an actual cost associated with this

Yes, this is the strangest. Like you phone from anouther country, and suddenly it takes the data more effort to reach the endpoint, so you need to pay 10x more. Someone with a brain in the EU actually realized the absurdity of this, and now EU is getting rid of the roaming costs.

Roaming costs are a joke, although I have to admit, they used to be much worse. I guess in a country like Australia, we have only so many submarine cables connecting us to the rest of the world. A lot of data is also routed via satellite. I'm not sure which would be more expensive in the long run? Probably satellite?

But yes, the cost of data is an absolute joke. In the early 2000's I worked for (then) one of Australia's largest telcos. Their products were basically re-packaged Telstra mobile and fixed-wire products. As a staff member we were allowed a flat out 50% reduction in our total bill, no matter what it was and even then, being a reseller, they were still making good money on staff plans, let alone what businesses and end-users had to pay.

In 2016, Telstra charge $10 per gigabyte over and above your monthly allowance. What would that cost them if you were to include power bills, leases, maintenance? Maybe 50c per gig? Probably not even. Here, have a dollar, keep the change!

[tszaboo]

Roaming costs are a joke, although I have to admit, they used to be much worse. I guess in a country like Australia, we have only so many submarine cables connecting us to the rest of the world. A lot of data is also routed via satellite. I'm not sure which would be more expensive in the long run? Probably satellite?

But yes, the cost of data is an absolute joke. In the early 2000's I worked for (then) one of Australia's largest telcos. Their products were basically re-packaged Telstra mobile and fixed-wire products. As a staff member we were allowed a flat out 50% reduction in our total bill, no matter what it was and even then, being a reseller, they were still making good money on staff plans, let alone what businesses and end-users had to pay.

In 2016, Telstra charge $10 per gigabyte over and above your monthly allowance. What would that cost them if you were to include power bills, leases, maintenance? Maybe 50c per gig? Probably not even. Here, have a dollar, keep the change!

It is probably different for AU but in EU you drive a few hours in a direction and you end up in a different country. There are people living next to a border, who continuously have to be aware which network they connect, otherwise they roam. And when I went to the US, i think I had to pay for a minute of phone call more than sending a mail.