Author Topic: Datasheet and manuals: paper or tablet?  (Read 3135 times)

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Offline MoriambarTopic starter

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Datasheet and manuals: paper or tablet?
« on: May 18, 2021, 03:06:58 pm »
Hello.
I currently am debating whether to continue using my paper datasheet (which I have to print - and I have no printer now) and sometimes to bind, or to switch to some electronic device/tablet, although I cannot choose which one right now (except no ipad 'cause it costs too much for this).

I usually tend to prefer paper, but in my new home I don't have much space on my bench, actually not even for a computer (when I have to use mine I just take a chair and put it beside the bench). That's why I thought that perhaps having manuals on a device could be profitable.

So I was wondering if you have any experience in that. The pros I see for paper is that I can easily write on it and index it and browse it through. The cons are that it's less environment friendly, it has more cost and it wastes a fuckton of space.
The pros of a tablet are, in my view, the solutions to the cons of paper, while its cons are that it's a bit harder on the eyes, it costs (I don't own one) and "paper never runs out of power".

What is your opinion?
 

Offline daqq

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Re: Datasheet and manuals: paper or tablet?
« Reply #1 on: May 18, 2021, 03:29:08 pm »
I don't see paper as a practical option for whole datasheets - the things are HUGE. They are also packed with information, some or most of you won't ever need. Maybe print out a select few pages and that's it.

I'm fine just reading them on my PC, since that's my typical use case, but to each his own. If you are having problems with tablets, maybe try an ebook reader like kindle. Far clunkier user interface than a tablet, but much better on the eyes.
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Offline ferdieCX

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Re: Datasheet and manuals: paper or tablet?
« Reply #2 on: May 18, 2021, 03:35:53 pm »
If you are having problems with tablets, maybe try an ebook reader like kindle. Far clunkier user interface than a tablet, but much better on the eyes.

I would like to buy a Kindle, but the screens are too small
 

Offline olkipukki

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Re: Datasheet and manuals: paper or tablet?
« Reply #3 on: May 18, 2021, 04:14:41 pm »
The pros I see for paper is that I can easily write on it and index it and browse it through. The cons are that it's less environment friendly, it has more cost and it wastes a fuckton of space.
The pros of a tablet are, in my view, the solutions to the cons of paper, while its cons are that it's a bit harder on the eyes, it costs (I don't own one) and "paper never runs out of power".

What is your opinion?
As example, one of the latest datasheet I have worked is almost 3000 pages, not sure how it can help browse through and/or catalog a paper copy :)

Usually, I'm using paper snapshots to stay way from computer & monitor, just reading and make some remarks.
Before COVID, a tablet exclusively for a travel.

If you have a space issue, why not laptop/notebook?
Much more flexiable, you can use as a computer (calc, soft etc) and not vendor lock as a tablet.
Also, you can buy an external monitor later.


 

Offline rdl

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Re: Datasheet and manuals: paper or tablet?
« Reply #4 on: May 18, 2021, 05:13:46 pm »
Same as this pretty much. Print only the page or pages I currently need and keep the pdf files stored on the NAS.

I don't see paper as a practical option for whole datasheets - the things are HUGE. They are also packed with information, some or most of you won't ever need. Maybe print out a select few pages and that's it.
 

Offline duckduck

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Re: Datasheet and manuals: paper or tablet?
« Reply #5 on: May 18, 2021, 07:00:12 pm »
Same as this pretty much. Print only the page or pages I currently need and keep the pdf files stored on the NAS.

I don't see paper as a practical option for whole datasheets - the things are HUGE. They are also packed with information, some or most of you won't ever need. Maybe print out a select few pages and that's it.

I will pile on. I print out the sheet(s) I'm going to need (pinouts, voltages, specs, etc.) and stick it in the project box with the components for that project. No way I am going to print out more than a few sheets for each project since I am paying for my time, paper, printer toner, and storage space. Once the sheets are used I will either file them with my other docs or drop them into the "scratch paper" pile. They will then get a second life of having notes written on them on the blank back side. They get put in the recycle bin after they are no longer of use. Reduce, re-use, recycle.  ;)
 

Offline whalphen

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Re: Datasheet and manuals: paper or tablet?
« Reply #6 on: May 18, 2021, 07:12:07 pm »
Several times I investigated the options for this.  Unfortunately, I was not able to find an affordable, practical solution for viewing pdf documents on a tablet.  It's just too clunky to always be zooming, resizing, sliding, flipping pages.  And many documents are formatted with two or three columns, making it even more clunky on a tablet.  I ended up hanging a flatscreen monitor and a small fanless PC on the wall at the back of the workbench.  It's on my home network so I can view and store documents while at my home office desk where I do much of the design and drawing and also access them from the workbench.  It's also tied in to some of my test equipment so I can capture screen shots.  Works well.  The keyboard and mouse take up some benchspace.  But, often I can put the keyboard aside and work with only the mouse.  It's great to have the datasheet on a screen right above the bench where I'm working.  And I can see the whole page and navigate to other pages easily.  If I have to dig up more information from the internet or my project files, I can do that, too, without leaving the workbench.  If I need a part, I can use my (free) PartsBox electronic inventory account to see which storage bin to go to.  If I don't have the part, I can immediately search Digi-Key or Mouser and add it to my shopping cart before I forget.  I also connected a USB microscope so I can closely examine parts and PCBs using the same screen.
If taking measurements or notes, I use a paper notebook.  That's much easier than trying to type while holding a probe.  Then the notebook goes on the shelf so I can always refer back to the original notes.
« Last Edit: May 18, 2021, 07:18:39 pm by whalphen »
 

Offline MoriambarTopic starter

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Re: Datasheet and manuals: paper or tablet?
« Reply #7 on: May 20, 2021, 08:59:04 pm »
Thanks for your replies.
To those who suggest laptop… I have one but I like to keep it as far as I can from the bench.
Also I have literally no space on the bench, it's very cramped…
Seems "print what you need and forget the rest" is kinda the way to go.
Thanks!
 

Offline PlainName

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Re: Datasheet and manuals: paper or tablet?
« Reply #8 on: May 21, 2021, 12:53:11 am »
Ah, I've just solved exactly this issue. Possibly.

My use of datasheets typically starts on the PC viewing the entire thing, then has specific pages printed out so I can refer to them without cluttering up the screen. The printouts are easier to mark, and have several pages viewable at once. But I end up with quite a lot of printouts for the bin, and if projects get put on hold then I can sometimes have duplicate (or more) copies of the same pages. Naturally, I only find the previous copies after printing the new ones.

The solution, I am hoping, is an e-ink tablet. Specifically the Boox Note Air:

https://www.boox.com/noteair/
1221096-0

If you're used to things like the Kindle, Nook or simillar, this will blow your socks off. Sure, it's e-ink and therefore not a speed demon on display refresh, but it ain't slow either. You can write at normal speeds and see the stuff appear just like it's paper - there is no discernible delay to put you off your stride. Page turns are pretty damn fast, and you can choose refresh speed vs quality to fine tune things.

However, for the question of datasheets, this is an A5 screen and easily big enough for most datasheets to display comfortably. In viewer mode (as opposed to note-taking mode) you can apply highlights, comments, etc. Either have it floating around on your desk like a (thick) sheet of paper or propped up like a second monitor (real paper can't do that).

There are other, similar, e-ink tablets. Boox even do an A4 one, although that's twice as expensive. However, what marks this one out is that under the bonnet it runs Android, so if you don't like the built-in viewer you can load up any of the pdf viewers on the Play store. Similarly, I ignore the built-in sync-to-China feature and loaded up Nextcloud to sync with my NAS directly.

Away from datasheets I am trying to get into the habit of using it for notes. Previously I've used a mix of paper and various PC apps, from Onenote to myBase, but they all have some downside. The paper one would be good if it didn't involve printing charts to stick in it, and then worrying that my only copy is a coffee mug away from being borked. The Boox allows me to do real writing, past in images (albeit they need syncing over first) and then making marks on them in a way I can't on the PC. I can even move writing to make room for a bit more if necessary, so the procrastination caused by being unsure where to start (will I need more space? Waste too much space?) is circumvented. Periodically I sync to the PC and the magic of Nextcloud means my master copy is on the NAS and I have up-to-date copies on the PC and phone.

The main downside is it's monochrome. There are shades of grey which work very well, but writing with them is off-putting a bit. And they're grey. You can use colour (well, the primaries) but you only see them as colour after syncing to the PC, or phone, and viewing there.

Honest, I am not getting a kickback off 'em :)

If this kind of wets your fancy, and very good Tube channel to check out is:

https://www.youtube.com/c/MyDeepGuide

The chap does in-depth reviews and usage guides for pretty much all tablets of this type, and ain't afraid to compare them.
 
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Offline MoriambarTopic starter

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Re: Datasheet and manuals: paper or tablet?
« Reply #9 on: May 21, 2021, 06:05:06 am »
Ah, I've just solved exactly this issue. Possibly.

My use of datasheets typically starts on the PC viewing the entire thing, then has specific pages printed out so I can refer to them without cluttering up the screen. The printouts are easier to mark, and have several pages viewable at once. But I end up with quite a lot of printouts for the bin, and if projects get put on hold then I can sometimes have duplicate (or more) copies of the same pages. Naturally, I only find the previous copies after printing the new ones.

The solution, I am hoping, is an e-ink tablet. Specifically the Boox Note Air:

https://www.boox.com/noteair/
(Attachment Link)

If you're used to things like the Kindle, Nook or simillar, this will blow your socks off. Sure, it's e-ink and therefore not a speed demon on display refresh, but it ain't slow either. You can write at normal speeds and see the stuff appear just like it's paper - there is no discernible delay to put you off your stride. Page turns are pretty damn fast, and you can choose refresh speed vs quality to fine tune things.

However, for the question of datasheets, this is an A5 screen and easily big enough for most datasheets to display comfortably. In viewer mode (as opposed to note-taking mode) you can apply highlights, comments, etc. Either have it floating around on your desk like a (thick) sheet of paper or propped up like a second monitor (real paper can't do that).

There are other, similar, e-ink tablets. Boox even do an A4 one, although that's twice as expensive. However, what marks this one out is that under the bonnet it runs Android, so if you don't like the built-in viewer you can load up any of the pdf viewers on the Play store. Similarly, I ignore the built-in sync-to-China feature and loaded up Nextcloud to sync with my NAS directly.

Away from datasheets I am trying to get into the habit of using it for notes. Previously I've used a mix of paper and various PC apps, from Onenote to myBase, but they all have some downside. The paper one would be good if it didn't involve printing charts to stick in it, and then worrying that my only copy is a coffee mug away from being borked. The Boox allows me to do real writing, past in images (albeit they need syncing over first) and then making marks on them in a way I can't on the PC. I can even move writing to make room for a bit more if necessary, so the procrastination caused by being unsure where to start (will I need more space? Waste too much space?) is circumvented. Periodically I sync to the PC and the magic of Nextcloud means my master copy is on the NAS and I have up-to-date copies on the PC and phone.

The main downside is it's monochrome. There are shades of grey which work very well, but writing with them is off-putting a bit. And they're grey. You can use colour (well, the primaries) but you only see them as colour after syncing to the PC, or phone, and viewing there.

Honest, I am not getting a kickback off 'em :)

If this kind of wets your fancy, and very good Tube channel to check out is:

https://www.youtube.com/c/MyDeepGuide

The chap does in-depth reviews and usage guides for pretty much all tablets of this type, and ain't afraid to compare them.

wow this is what I was searching for. Although a bit pricey especially for the A4 version which I was shooting for. But I'll see what my budget will be.
Thanks a lot!
 

Offline station240

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Re: Datasheet and manuals: paper or tablet?
« Reply #10 on: May 21, 2021, 07:02:30 am »
I just have an LCD monitor with a Raspberry PI literally bolted to the back of it.
Short HDMI and USB cables from the PI to the monitor, then plug the keyboard/mouse into the side of the monitor.

A touch screen monitor would be even better, but as if I ever find something like that.
 

Offline Doctorandus_P

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Re: Datasheet and manuals: paper or tablet?
« Reply #11 on: May 21, 2021, 07:16:01 am »
One of the big advantages in datasheets in some electronic format is that they are searchable. And usually also have an index to quickly jump to (sub) chapters.

I find E-ink / unusable for datasheets.
First the processors are too slow, and combined with the slow update rate of the screen it makes searching through a datasheet a nuisance.

Datasheets are usually also in .PDF format (letter?) and they do not scale well to small screens. Especially when they have multiple columns with text intermixed with pictures, my E-book (Pocketbook Lux -something) can not reflow them properly.

My current setup for reading (and searching through) datasheets is my PC. I have a dual monitor setup (second hand HP-LP2465 monitors) and have one in portrait, and the other in landscape. With such a monitor you can view a wole page without scrolling and without glasses easily from a meter distance, so it's easy to peek while soldering etc.

I find a monitor in portrait mode perfect for anything with text. From viewing web pages, datasheets and writing software (I can have about 120 lines readable without scrolling). The other monitor in landscape mode is good for video, Pulseview / Sigrok, graphical applications such as FreeCAD & KiCad.

I do have some interest in a tablet for reading datasheets, but it would have to be pretty big (preferably 12" or bigger) and a resolution of 1920 x 1280 or more, and those cost more then I'm willing to spend on them. The reason I only find that size / resolution acceptable is because a whole A4 sized page must be readable without scrolling or re-formatting.

« Last Edit: May 21, 2021, 07:19:11 am by Doctorandus_P »
 

Offline MoriambarTopic starter

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Re: Datasheet and manuals: paper or tablet?
« Reply #12 on: May 21, 2021, 07:23:32 am »
Hi all,
I'm just answering generally.

I use my pc for work around 12 hours per day and my eyesight is not what it used to be. I feel the strain when I use my pc extensivley also for my electronics hobby, that's why I try and constrain myself on weekends for projects (laying out boards, using the arduino) and searches/buying components.
Usually in the lab I mainly use datasheet and some notes. Ofc when I have to use the arduino sometimes I have to use the pc too, but (as I told) I try and limit this to weekends.

Personally I feel that the pdf searchability is awesome but having two or three pages, possibily for different components, laying side by side is something that I could never do with electronics display (e-ink or lcd).

I also don't mind the sluggishness of e-ink since I'm not in a hurry: work=hurry, hobby=relax.

That's why I'm thinking of the e-ink megatablet
 

Offline amishasingh

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Re: Datasheet and manuals: paper or tablet?
« Reply #13 on: May 21, 2021, 11:16:19 am »
I personally use kindle, but as an electronics engineer I never use the kindle for data sheets. Although I gave gave trail in the beginning  for this but my eyes were strained. Better to go on the large screen or as an enthusiastic paper print for data sheets is really a good option as I feel
Amisha
 
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Offline AndrewNorman

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Re: Datasheet and manuals: paper or tablet?
« Reply #14 on: May 21, 2021, 11:39:46 am »
I personally have an old iPad that sits on the side of my bench permanently plugged in (it was retired due to speed and dying battery life). I have a DropBox account that has all my various datasheets sorted like I want them.

The combination of those two allows me to access the sheets as I need. It gives me a touch screen interface without taking up a huge amount of space.
 

Offline amishasingh

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Re: Datasheet and manuals: paper or tablet?
« Reply #15 on: May 21, 2021, 11:40:55 am »
Interesting...
Amisha
 

Online DiTBho

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Re: Datasheet and manuals: paper or tablet?
« Reply #16 on: May 21, 2021, 12:31:33 pm »
The solution, I am hoping, is an e-ink tablet. Specifically the  Boox Note Air

Why not a Apple iPad Air? It's ~ in the same price range  :-//
Is it of the different technology of the LCD?
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Online DiTBho

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Re: Datasheet and manuals: paper or tablet?
« Reply #17 on: May 21, 2021, 12:39:14 pm »
And why not the Remarkable2 ?
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Offline PlainName

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Re: Datasheet and manuals: paper or tablet?
« Reply #18 on: May 21, 2021, 12:44:43 pm »
Quote
I find E-ink / unusable for datasheets.
First the processors are too slow, and combined with the slow update rate of the screen it makes searching through a datasheet a nuisance.

You should get hold of a modern e-ink tablet to try! I've attached a video to demonstrate the update rate (I think - had to trim several minutes and compress like crazy to fit the upload limits, and I ain't no tuber so it's very rough). There is flickering when large black areas are cleared, but check out the dual-page scrolling at the end - it is easily fast enough, and that's typical of full-page turns.

Searching is pretty damn fast as well. I had to cut that bit to allow the video to upload though.

[Edit: can't upload video. Zipped it's still too big. I'll try and sort something out...]

Quote
Datasheets are usually also in .PDF format (letter?) and they do not scale well to small screens.

The content tends to be A5 or so, given the huge margins that were in favour. And this ain't no small screen. You can see that the ESP32 tech ref in the video is easily readable, even when split into two (so each side is A6).

A second monitor is good, particularly since you already have your hands on the mouse and keyboard for navigation. But it can't go flat on the desk or be carried to the bench or make notes out in the sunny garden. Horses for courses, and my intention is to not switch to a single device or mode but to use whatever is appropriate for the moment. As I noted, the Boox allows me to do notes in a paper way yet access those notes on the PC or phone (or print them out). Similarly, I would shove a schematic onto the Boox to use as reference when on the bench (the PC screen is tiny there), the datasheets for the parts similarly. But that doesn't mean I wouldn't also open them on the PC when checking stuff there.
 

Offline PlainName

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Re: Datasheet and manuals: paper or tablet?
« Reply #19 on: May 21, 2021, 12:51:28 pm »
The solution, I am hoping, is an e-ink tablet. Specifically the  Boox Note Air

Why not a Apple iPad Air? It's ~ in the same price range  :-//
Is it of the different technology of the LCD?

Two things:

1. The display is LCD or oLED. e-ink is paper-like and much nicer to look at. In daylight e-ink is easily readable, but since it is essentially black marks on a surface (as opposed to a light source) it's pretty useless in the dark. The Boox has a, er, frontlight to combat that, and I find it useful to leave that on permanently (at a low level) which makes viewing under any light source a non-issue.

2. E-ink doesn't need power if there is no change. So you can, say, have a schematic displayed and then let the thing turn itself off, and the schematic will still be displayed. So battery life should be vastly better than continuous viewing on LCD/oLED. In practice the default mode is for a screensaver to be displayed when the device turns off (for privacy reasons) but you can override that.
 
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Offline PlainName

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Re: Datasheet and manuals: paper or tablet?
« Reply #20 on: May 21, 2021, 01:00:40 pm »
And why not the Remarkable2 ?

Primarily because the Boox runs Android and the Remarkable doesn't. Thus you can load up your favourite phone apps - the processor is easily fast enough and the screen issue (ignoring lack of colour) tends to be that it's too big for many Android apps! If you don't like the built-in viewer just download a better one off Play. Similarly, you can shove on dropbox, Nextcloud, FolderSynce, whatever choice of getting stuff on and off floats your boat.

Next, it's a glass screen, so less prone to poking stuff through it accidentally. I now use a screen protector, but that's for making the writing feel more like paper. I think the screen would be fine without any protection at all, and it's a matt finish so doesn't glare too much.

However, it's swings and roundabouts. The Youtube channel I mentioned earlier was invaluable in giving me the relevant info in order to make a decision, and I would recommend viewing the relevant videos for the kit you're interested in before spending the money.
 
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Offline SmallCog

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Re: Datasheet and manuals: paper or tablet?
« Reply #21 on: May 24, 2021, 03:24:57 am »
Whole sheets digital

I print off pages to scribble on or make notes or doodle or whatever as I work.

If my scribbles are intelligent or may one day be useful I'll scan them and save them with the datasheet.
 

Offline Berni

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Re: Datasheet and manuals: paper or tablet?
« Reply #22 on: May 24, 2021, 05:50:28 am »
What is wrong with viewing datasheets on a computer monitor?

I keep a computer near by and just leave the datasheet open full screen. If you want a better PDF viewing experience from more of a distance you can also turn a display 90 degrees into portrait so it fits a A4 aspect ratio closer. I don't just use it to look at PDFs, but i also google pinouts of stuff or keep the PCB CAD open to quickly check where a trace on a PCB goes. The monitor also does not clutter the bench since its off to the side.

The ONE case where i found printed documentation really useful however is when repairing test equipment. I still won't print out the whole service manual because that is a whole lot of paper, but once i have narrowed the problem down i will often print out the schematics and diagrams for the one board that i am suspecting is faulty. I like having the paper right next to what i am probing. I can also write on that paper to mark down my measurements (right onto the schematic for easy reference where it was measured) or mark off components i tested to be fine. This helps me stare at the schematic and ponder what would cause the fault that i am seeing.
« Last Edit: May 24, 2021, 05:52:15 am by Berni »
 

Offline PlainName

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Re: Datasheet and manuals: paper or tablet?
« Reply #23 on: May 24, 2021, 01:21:45 pm »
Quote
I like having the paper right next to what i am probing. I can also write on that paper to mark down my measurements (right onto the schematic for easy reference where it was measured)

That's a use case for the large e-ink tablets.

Plus, you don't need to go back to the PC for the datasheet or print out the relevant page - your entire searchable collection is there on the paper facsimile. Of course, a downside of this (over actual paper) is that you only have one screen whereas you could have many sheets spread around the place. But it does mean you would have the same printout multiple times because the one you were looking for is hidden under all the others...
 

Offline aandrew

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Re: Datasheet and manuals: paper or tablet?
« Reply #24 on: May 24, 2021, 06:16:10 pm »
I normally hate reading on an LCD/OLED, but I could not find an e-paper reader which could render large PDFs, particularly those which are pretty much hundreds or thousands of TIFF images, quickly. To that end, I actually ended up buying an iPad for this purpose. The various android tablets I tried weren't much better.

I have to say, with a decent PDF viewer like PDF Expert or Documents (both by Readdle) - it's been a very good purchase. I use it for a few other things too, but it's primary use for me is a datasheet reader.
 


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