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| Datasheets becoming more useless and restricted over time |
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| Lance:
Hi all, I'm not sure if this is an actual trend or not. It's just something I've noticed and wanted to get some more thoughts on. I haven't seen it being discussed elsewhere unless I just used the wrong search terms. I've been working professionally as an EE for about 7 years now, but I've been doing this type of stuff for basically my entire life. I've noticed a trend where information on parts and datasheets are gradually becoming locked down. I'm not talking about specialty aerospace or other restricted parts, I mean parts that you can pick up on digikey or any other public market. 10+ years ago this was generally only true for more specialty chips. Fancy SOCs with 1000+ page datasheets, ASICs for encrypted keyfobs, etc. You had to sign an NDA and be an actual company to get them. I'm seeing this move into less esoteric devices, and I've got a specific example. Toward the end of university I managed to gather enough parts and cobble together an ebike using some LiFePO4 cells. I was really looking forward to building a BMS and learning all about the details. I planned to base it around one of the earlier versions of the LTC6812. Life happened and the project sat for a bit. I maintained the pack with a DMM and a simple charger. Many years down the road I have much more experience under my belt, more than two pennies to rub together, and those cells are totally dead. I decided to pick the project up again, so I designed a new pack using 18650's and went shopping for a BMS IC. The LTC6812 is a good option. This datasheet is excellent, it has everything you need to know to run the device https://www.analog.com/media/en/technical-documentation/data-sheets/ltc6812-1.pdf .Too bad the part is out of stock everywhere, so I went looking for alternatives. I noticed the newer TI and the rebranded Analog Devices parts have datasheets which are effectively just ad flyers. Nothing about how to actually use the parts. https://www.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/bq79656-q1.pdf https://www.analog.com/media/en/technical-documentation/data-sheets/adbms6830.pdf The sorts of projects these get used for aren't on the level of a beginner engineer or casual hobbyist. However these devices aren't performing any exotic functions, older versions in the product lineups have the usual fully complete datasheets. So what gives? The companies seem to want everybody to sign an NDA to use these parts. Or are they just so new they haven't gotten around to publishing the full documents yet? If this trend is real and spreads I think it will have a negative impact on the profession. As a student details in the old LT datasheet made me realize I had some significant gaps in my knowledge I needed to fill before tackling that project. I didn't have the money or skills to tackle the project at the time, but the datasheets alone were a useful learning tool. I haven't seen this spread to more common generic parts like opamps, or other less specialized ICs like matrix drivers yet. However in my dayjob I've seen this creeping into what I'll call semi-specialized parts like these BMS chips. I wonder what the long term trend looks like. Are we heading for a future where using anything other than the most generic parts requires the backing of a company and being signed to secrecy? I'm curious if anyone else has noticed this. Am I just imagining this or is this trend real? EDIT: I retract that statement about matrix drivers: https://www.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/tlc6983.pdf A whole 15 pages long. |
| DC1MC:
You took some very "fresh" parts in the absolute hottest and the most critical part of the industry and you wonder were are the detailed datasheets and nice application notes from which you can design your projects ? Well I have some bad news, soon there will be no more whining about ginormous amount of documentation that one need to read and understand to be fully capable of use a specific chip/MCU/whatever, because there will be no more of this stuff, once gone will stay gone for ever. And no, you will not be able to vote with your wallet, maybe for a short time until everybody synchronizes and the "obsolete" parts with their abundant docs will become EOL. A ultra-simplified data-sheet, a demo board with some software for evaluation, a super patched Yocto for Linux running MCU and that's it ("...we comply with Open Source licenses as little as legally possible, please use our supported binary firmware image...". And hey, if someone still use those Borscht sensors, a fully opaque "AI" to calibrate them will be available, an that's it, basta. So what about designing my own products, you may ask ?!? Well, enters the "XXX Company Engineering Services", you give them the specifications, pay and get a nice Chinese design, also for the continued revenue stream you'll also get support contract. No, access protocols are proprietary and only available via our "IoT Cloud Services", for a moderate monthly fee/device, you get the latest software updates and bug-fixes. You'll only have a say in the branding of the unit and the shape of the PCB, maybe. It may sound, bleak, paranoid or far fetched, but this is the global trend, the time of small/medium design houses with their little niches, JIT supply and "I design it here, produce it in China and slap 10000% price on it" are all gone and the consolidation will happen fast. Now you can see them (including here) twerking like the suffocating fish out of water, desperately scrambling for the bottom of the barrel parts and waiting for good old times of unlimited availability, easy full BOM ordering and fast delivery to come back, any time soon, the "hoarders will be punished and sell their stock for pennies on dollars...". Is really sad and pathetic what is happening, this the world now and we're joining the watch makers and other dinosaurian jobs, some extra/ultra specialized design houses may survive, but most will be just gone or be assimilated. Cheers and have a nice Easter celebration for those who does it, DC1MC |
| Whales:
--- Quote from: Lance on April 14, 2022, 08:38:06 am ---The LTC6812 is a good option. This datasheet is excellent, it has everything you need to know to run the device https://www.analog.com/media/en/technical-documentation/data-sheets/ltc6812-1.pdf .Too bad the part is out of stock everywhere, so I went looking for alternatives. I noticed the newer TI and the rebranded Analog Devices parts have datasheets which are effectively just ad flyers. Nothing about how to actually use the parts. https://www.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/bq79656-q1.pdf https://www.analog.com/media/en/technical-documentation/data-sheets/adbms6830.pdf --- End quote --- Perhaps this is revealing. Just as 2nd hand bookstores end up only stocking bad books (because they are the ones that survive on the shelf). Good, easy to use and documented parts: out of stock due to demand Crappily documented parts: available, no one wants to buy them. |
| JPortici:
--- Quote from: DC1MC on April 14, 2022, 09:42:35 am ---dismissed as rant as i don't want to believe it --- End quote --- or... one needs to look at the product page more carefully, because in the documents section i can see this https://www.ti.com/lit/ug/sluuc37b/sluuc37b.pdf I would say it's not the norm for TI but i say it's not unexpected for this kind of part |
| Lance:
--- Quote from: JPortici on April 14, 2022, 11:45:04 am ---or... one needs to look at the product page more carefully, because in the documents section i can see this --- End quote --- That's just a guide for the devkit, doesn't have any details on the actual part in question. --- Quote from: Whales on April 14, 2022, 11:05:14 am ---Crappily documented parts: available, no one wants to buy them. --- End quote --- I was surprised to see those in stock given the general shortage of chips we're in right now. I've seen lead times 1-2 years long for things as simple as opamps. |
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