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General => General Chat => Topic started by: Tasman on May 19, 2011, 10:44:50 am

Title: DEADLY WIRING FAULT ; Atten 858D+ Hot Air Rework Station
Post by: Tasman on May 19, 2011, 10:44:50 am

I just received an Atten 858D+ hot air rework station direct from China.  When I plugged it in and switched on it was completely dead - no display or any activity.  On taking the front panel off I found that the power input socket had been mis-wired and mains active was tied directly to the exposed metallic parts of the heat gun.

This is a potential killer - no pun intended.  Please if you have purchased but not received one of these items check the mains wiring before switching on.  Even if you have one that appears to be functioning ok it would be best to have a look whether it has more insidious faults such as neutral to earth or active-neutral transposed.

For what it's worth the serial number of my unit is 1042111302610.

Further Notes

** I noticed that the pictures posted originally have been removed - probably the files were too large.  Managed to find them and they are attached with some further explanation.

* Active-Earth shows low resistance from active of power plug to exposed metal of the heat gun.
*Overall view shows the black wire which should be connected to earth on the power receptacle is instead connected to active.
*General close up is an enlarged view of above.
* Power receptacle shows the black wire connected to the active lug of the power receptacle.
*Pcb earth connection shows the other end of the black wire connected to the earth trace of the pcb.  The thin green wire connected to the same trace is the earth wire to the heat gun.
Title: Re: DEADLY WIRING FAULT ; Atten 858D+ Hot Air Rework Station
Post by: firewalker on May 19, 2011, 11:49:48 am
I am glad you are ok!

Any photos?

Maybe Dave should put a warning to his video review.
Title: Re: DEADLY WIRING FAULT ; Atten 858D+ Hot Air Rework Station
Post by: PetrosA on May 19, 2011, 12:06:37 pm
That's hugely frightening. It's also a good reason to add Class A (5mA) GFI/RCD protection to workbenches. I see a lot of lighting fixtures from China here in the US with bad/loose connections, bad mechanical assembly, missing parts etc. to the point where now I have to check everything before I install one. If that kind of carelessness is being carried over to other products, it's disturbing to say the least. The average consumer doesn't have the knowledge or the means to check every product for safety before using :(
Title: Re: DEADLY WIRING FAULT ; Atten 858D+ Hot Air Rework Station
Post by: Tasman on May 19, 2011, 12:22:28 pm
I always use an RCD and treat every new piece of equipment (particularly from China) as a deadly threat until proved otherwise.  After 50 odd years playing with electrical stuff I am still alive but have had a few close calls. 

I am not long home after a long series of flights from the mine where I work and do not have time now to follow up.  Will post some pictures tomorrow.
Title: Re: DEADLY WIRING FAULT ; Atten 858D+ Hot Air Rework Station
Post by: saturation on May 19, 2011, 12:40:47 pm
Ouch, yes the pictures are necessary to at least provide some proof; but I have no reason to doubt as I've seen such poor quality control myself in other products.

If safely possible on the photo, can you show with a DMM mains voltage is actually on the metallic parts of the gun?
Title: Re: DEADLY WIRING FAULT ; Atten 858D+ Hot Air Rework Station
Post by: comox on May 19, 2011, 03:21:46 pm
I think I will be sticking to my "Made in Germany" Weller WHA900.
Title: Re: DEADLY WIRING FAULT ; Atten 858D+ Hot Air Rework Station
Post by: sacherjj on May 19, 2011, 04:11:00 pm
I was thinking about a full dis-assembly of my 858 when it gets here.  This makes me do more than think about it.  Also, because I think they spend more time and energy on the more popular 220V version, that I want to make sure things aren't short cutted on the 110 V version. 

Things like using the same gauge wire to the heater for both 220v and 110v could be an issue, due to the doubled current.  But if I didn't get the $70 version, I'd have no version.  Just can't swing more money for a better one at this time.
Title: Re: DEADLY WIRING FAULT ; Atten 858D+ Hot Air Rework Station
Post by: Sionyn on May 19, 2011, 04:35:54 pm
man that is bad
surprised it did have any sort of qa test
Title: Re: DEADLY WIRING FAULT ; Atten 858D+ Hot Air Rework Station
Post by: Lance on May 19, 2011, 05:01:33 pm
Oh they probably did have some sort of qa test, the standards were probably just really low. Pictures and test data would be pretty good to have.
Title: Re: DEADLY WIRING FAULT ; Atten 858D+ Hot Air Rework Station
Post by: bilko on May 19, 2011, 06:01:29 pm
Oh they probably did have some sort of qa test, the standards were probably just really low. Pictures and test data would be pretty good to have.

Agree, very low, like not even switching the thing on  :o
I tend to think that any QA that the Chinese do is on a 'batch basis' like every 10 or more, not everyone gets tested.
Title: Re: DEADLY WIRING FAULT ; Atten 858D+ Hot Air Rework Station
Post by: sacherjj on May 19, 2011, 07:27:53 pm
It was probably made late on Friday or by the new guy.   ;D
Title: Re: DEADLY WIRING FAULT ; Atten 858D+ Hot Air Rework Station
Post by: DavidDLC on May 19, 2011, 08:09:45 pm
How did they test it ? They should have something !
Title: Re: DEADLY WIRING FAULT ; Atten 858D+ Hot Air Rework Station
Post by: bilko on May 19, 2011, 08:16:14 pm
For what it's worth the serial number of my unit is 1042111302610.

With that information, if they have any QA they should be able to trace who built it and who checked it. Have you tried to contact the manufacturer ?
Title: Re: DEADLY WIRING FAULT ; Atten 858D+ Hot Air Rework Station
Post by: Alex on May 19, 2011, 10:19:07 pm
Glad you are OK. Speaking of lethal cost savings in devices originating from China, a couple of months ago I took apart a cheap rechargeable radio/flashlight combo (you know, the garden variety) and I was presentred with several treats.

Mains terminals were of course not insulated, and ultra-thin 'blue wire' typically used to rework PCBs was used to do the mains wiring. These wires were running over the solder side of the main PCB, together with all the low level signals. But that is nothing. What really scared me was that they used a capacitor in series with the mains to power all the circuits. No isolation whatsoever. The radio has a retractable antenna which, because of no isolation, is live when the device is charging on the wall socket.

I have also heard of fake carabiners for mountain climbing and fake baby milk powder.

Be careful.
Title: Re: DEADLY WIRING FAULT ; Atten 858D+ Hot Air Rework Station
Post by: Uncle Vernon on May 19, 2011, 10:20:18 pm
man that is bad
surprised it did have any sort of qa test

QA will always be an exercise in applied paperwork and is never going to do much about actual quality. The real concern is lack of effective QC, ie: actual testing.
For hand assembled equipment you'd expect EVERY unit would at least undergo a basic PAT test for continuity etc. The potential for error is always high.
Title: Re: DEADLY WIRING FAULT ; Atten 858D+ Hot Air Rework Station
Post by: johnwa on May 19, 2011, 11:05:26 pm
I see a lot of lighting fixtures from China here in the US with bad/loose connections, bad mechanical assembly, missing parts etc. to the point where now I have to check everything before I install one.

Yes, despite all the safety standards, etc, I think this is a good idea. (And, it gives you an excuse to pull it apart to see what's inside :) )

I always use an RCD and treat every new piece of equipment (particularly from China) as a deadly threat until proved otherwise.  After 50 odd years playing with electrical stuff I am still alive but have had a few close calls. 

One good idea I have heard is to make a habit of first touching all unknown electrical equipment with the BACK of your hand, so you don't grab hold of it if it is live.

Title: Re: DEADLY WIRING FAULT ; Atten 858D+ Hot Air Rework Station
Post by: Mechatrommer on May 20, 2011, 12:31:24 am
50 part cheapo price + 50 part diy fix = china cheapo. :P
Title: Re: DEADLY WIRING FAULT ; Atten 858D+ Hot Air Rework Station
Post by: Alex on May 20, 2011, 12:33:26 am
I dont understand why such extreme cost cutting measures are taken. Dont say to maximise profit; I would happily pay $1 more for a product that won't kill me.
Title: Re: DEADLY WIRING FAULT ; Atten 858D+ Hot Air Rework Station
Post by: vk6zgo on May 20, 2011, 01:03:28 am
It's a lot cheaper to employ people direct off the street,& just set them loose assembling things.

The best answer to this at our level,is to check  for earth continuity with a multimeter,& lack of continuity

between active OR neutral & any accessable metalwork.

Tough luck for non technical people though!

At my old work,we received some Chinese equipment using metal cased mains connectors(Cannon style).

The only problem was that the only panel mount connectors they could find were female,so that the loose

plugin leads had MALE connectors with pins sticking out that you could touch!

Needless to say,this was quickly modified "in house".

By the way,the things didn't work either,so this was just the first of many modifications needed! :D

VK6ZGO
Title: Re: DEADLY WIRING FAULT ; Atten 858D+ Hot Air Rework Station
Post by: Lance on May 20, 2011, 01:51:14 am
It's a lot cheaper to employ people direct off the street,& just set them loose assembling things.

The best answer to this at our level,is to check  for earth continuity with a multimeter,& lack of continuity

between active OR neutral & any accessable metalwork.

Tough luck for non technical people though!

At my old work,we received some Chinese equipment using metal cased mains connectors(Cannon style).

The only problem was that the only panel mount connectors they could find were female,so that the loose

plugin leads had MALE connectors with pins sticking out that you could touch!

Needless to say,this was quickly modified "in house".

By the way,the things didn't work either,so this was just the first of many modifications needed! :D

VK6ZGO
How is it these products are allowed to be sold? That's what I want to know. Aren't our tax funds supposed to prevent this sort of cheap garbage from entering the market?
Title: Re: DEADLY WIRING FAULT ; Atten 858D+ Pictures
Post by: Tasman on May 20, 2011, 01:53:57 am
Attached are pictures illustrating the existence of the fault.  Later today I will post teardown pictures that show why the fault occurred.

Last night I also notified the Ebay seller in China and to his credit received a prompt reply indicating his great concern and that he would notifiy the manufacturer and his customers of the problem. 
Title: Re: DEADLY WIRING FAULT ; Atten 858D+ Pictures
Post by: Alex on May 20, 2011, 02:22:31 am
Attached are pictures illustrating the existence of the fault.

Holy cow.

Well, isn't that the best way to indicate that the equipment is plugged in and turned on? :-)
Title: Re: DEADLY WIRING FAULT ; Atten 858D+ Hot Air Rework Station
Post by: Mechatrommer on May 20, 2011, 03:14:07 am
How is it these products are allowed to be sold? That's what I want to know. Aren't our tax funds supposed to prevent this sort of cheap garbage from entering the market?
how china regulates? nada! its free global market there. or maybe you have to ask the "police of the world" to impose the regulation on them, can they?. and you'll be more pissed off if you paid the item but blocked at your custom cleareance. as a lesson, if you dont tolerate this kind of stuff, dont buy from china. thats the only thing rules, you buy or you dont.
Title: Re: DEADLY WIRING FAULT ; Atten 858D+ Teardown Pictures
Post by: Tasman on May 20, 2011, 05:34:55 am
Finally managed to clear enough time and workbench space to tear down and photograph.  The faulty wiring is at the power receptacle where earth (black) has been transposed with active (blue).  The earth wire is connected to the pcb which you can see in the general and closeup views.  Thin green wire from pcb goes to the metal tip of the heat gun.

Further issues are that there is no earth connection to the other metallic parts of the case.  Exposed pads on the pcb are meant to earth the front panel but are insulated by paint on the panel standoffs. This should be addressed by all owners of these devices.

When rectifying the wiring issue I will also connect earth wires to the chassis at transformer and front panel.
Title: Re: DEADLY WIRING FAULT ; Atten 858D+ Hot Air Rework Station
Post by: saturation on May 20, 2011, 05:01:39 pm
Kudos Tasman, the photos make it very clear that this issue is a potential cause of serious injury.
Title: Re: DEADLY WIRING FAULT ; Atten 858D+ Hot Air Rework Station
Post by: Lance on May 20, 2011, 07:01:30 pm
No kidding. Can you take apart the nozzle where the fault is? Also correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't that the el cheapo PCB material that I currently forget the name of? Dave was complaining about it in the shanghai special.
Title: Re: DEADLY WIRING FAULT ; Atten 858D+ Hot Air Rework Station
Post by: sacherjj on May 20, 2011, 07:11:18 pm
Mine came today, a 110V version.  My tip is grounded properly.  The only major fault I see is the lack of grounding on the metal case.
Title: Re: DEADLY WIRING FAULT ; Atten 858D+ Hot Air Rework Station
Post by: firewalker on May 20, 2011, 07:25:21 pm
I believe Dave should issue a warning to his review description.


Alexander.
Title: Re: DEADLY WIRING FAULT ; Atten 858D+ Hot Air Rework Station
Post by: shadewind on May 20, 2011, 07:28:54 pm
I agree about the warning. I'll probably get myself an Aoyue instead, they seem to be of higher quality in general.
Title: Re: DEADLY WIRING FAULT ; Atten 858D+ Hot Air Rework Station
Post by: saturation on May 20, 2011, 07:58:20 pm
A recent report:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/yblog_technews/20110520/tc_yblog_technews/explosion-at-foxconn-ipad-factory-kills-2-in-china (http://news.yahoo.com/s/yblog_technews/20110520/tc_yblog_technews/explosion-at-foxconn-ipad-factory-kills-2-in-china)

When you hear of explosions and deaths in an electronics assembly factory, not electrical, you wonder about products like this.

Maybe Foxconn provides them with tools with the same focus on safety like this Atten rework station.
Title: Re: DEADLY WIRING FAULT ; Atten 858D+ Hot Air Rework Station
Post by: Sionyn on May 20, 2011, 08:40:33 pm
Q.C PASSED sticker

passed my arse
Title: Re: DEADLY WIRING FAULT ; Atten 858D+ Hot Air Rework Station
Post by: Fraser on May 20, 2011, 11:22:36 pm
This little hot air station is turning into a bit of a disaster area ! I have bought one but have yet to find time to correct the issues that have been discovered. Until then it sits in disgrace within it's box  ;D

So far we know that the earthing can be poor or even incorrectly wired, the fan case can be subject to butchery, the handpiece design poorly accomodates the fan, heater cables are pinched, the air intakes are poorly formed and almost obscured, and finally it's output temperature stability with differing air flow rates and nozzles is poor. A recommendation to buy ..... I think not.... unless, like me you are willing to correct the above issues as a little project. At the cheap asking price it may, or may not, meet the needs of the hobbyist with available free time to sort it out.

I believe it may be worth Dave revisiting the ATTEN 858D+ and highlighting some of it's design compromises as an education in what the Far East manufacturers do to corner the market in cheap equipment.

Do I personally regret buying it.... interestingly NO  :) The unit is compact and has the potential to be very useful to me. I have a larger and heavier W.E.P 852D+ that is used in the lab and the 858D+ will suit my mobile needs. I will just have to sort it out first. No great shakes for me when I find a spare few minutes. At around £45 delivered it is still 'cheap as chips' if that is all you want to spend.
Title: Re: DEADLY WIRING FAULT ; Atten 858D+ Hot Air Rework Station
Post by: sacherjj on May 21, 2011, 03:10:04 am
My fan was not as bad as Dave's but one side of the grind made an 1/8" hole.  It works pretty good though.  Definitely work the purchase for the price.
Title: Re: DEADLY WIRING FAULT ; Atten 858D+ Hot Air Rework Station
Post by: ToddFun on May 21, 2011, 07:27:57 am
I picked up a nice BlackJack Hot Air Station at Circuit Specialists for $99 on sale. No problems that I noticed.
http://www.circuitspecialists.com/prod.itml/icOid/9751 (http://www.circuitspecialists.com/prod.itml/icOid/9751)
They are normally $119 USD and it is a very nice station for the price too. The added vacuum wand to move the chips around is handy and it has a mechanical arm that holds the hot air wand for you over your work so you can use both hands on the board. Just wave the board under the hot air wand with one hand and then pluck your chip or component with the vacuum or tweezers with the other hand.  This even makes assembly easier.  It works with through hole too but I find I have to suck the bulk of the solder first.

(http://www.circuitspecialists.com/products/full/9751.jpg)
Title: Re: DEADLY WIRING FAULT ; Atten 858D+ Hot Air Rework Station
Post by: Fraser on May 21, 2011, 09:35:44 am
There are definitely some good deals out there at the moment.

Sadly we have to dismantle our new purchases in order to check their safety and build quality as outward appearances can be deceptive. Your unit looks very nice indeed but it would still be worth doing some basic checks on the earthing, positioning of internal cables and fusing etc. I suppose the end user is now the QC officer for these products.

FYI ......The BK4050 is £120 in the UK from Circuit Specilists Europe. Once again the US$1 = GBP1 magic price converter strikes  ;D
Title: Re: DEADLY WIRING FAULT ; Atten 858D+ Hot Air Rework Station
Post by: ToddFun on May 21, 2011, 07:20:13 pm
Yes, You're right. I should do a QC on it. I will video the tear down and checks at my "Dave Jones fan boy want-a-be" blog site www.toddfun.com (http://www.toddfun.com)
To busy right now with other things so it's might be a few weeks unless I get that itch.
Title: Re: DEADLY WIRING FAULT ; Atten 858D+ Hot Air Rework Station
Post by: Didder on June 14, 2011, 08:09:34 am


I just received an Atten 858D+ hot air rework station direct from China.  When I plugged it in and switched on it was completely dead - no display or any activity.  On taking the front panel off I found that the power input socket had been mis-wired and mains active was tied directly to the exposed metallic parts of the heat gun.

This is a potential killer - no pun intended.  Please if you have purchased but not received one of these items check the mains wiring before switching on.  Even if you have one that appears to be functioning ok it would be best to have a look whether it has more insidious faults such as neutral to earth or active-neutral transposed.

For what it's worth the serial number of my unit is 1042111302610.
hello got one of these yesterday, good looking machine. How would I go about fixing this bad wiring problem, also would you have a picture of the problem.
Title: Re: DEADLY WIRING FAULT ; Atten 858D+ Hot Air Rework Station
Post by: hannobisschoff on June 14, 2011, 12:54:06 pm
man that is bad
surprised it did have any sort of qa test

What's a qa test?
Title: Warning 120V version was Re: DEADLY WIRING FAULT ; Atten 858D+
Post by: saturation on June 25, 2011, 12:14:56 pm
A quick report, I received a 858D this week that was pre-made for 120V; its was sold via eBay direct from China as an Atten brand, but it came as a WEP model, with a different box, but the same accessories.

The build quality is lower that Dave's video.  It had a fine cover of dust, more outside than inside the unit.  I disassembled the unit and cleaned it.

The following are immediate issues, more later.  Tracing the power lines, its fused to the hot line and properly grounded, but its the neutral line that's switched

The 20mm glass fuse panel mount holder is made with low quality plastic that it disintegrated with a single opening.  These models come with 120V transformers, and the power cable is not removable.

Photos and more later, since I continue to dissect it and haven't been able to turn it on.  Just a word of caution if you order one, you have to do your own QC, i.e., quality control, since the manufacture of this item has fairly erratic QA, quality assurance.

Title: Re: DEADLY WIRING FAULT ; Atten 858D+ Hot Air Rework Station
Post by: Madman on June 25, 2011, 12:40:23 pm
I ordered a 220V too but haven't received it yet. I will do a full check-up before plugging it in. Thank you all for the heads-up :-)
Title: WEP 858D was Re: DEADLY WIRING FAULT ; Atten 858D+
Post by: saturation on June 30, 2011, 02:23:13 pm
I've completed a 'QC' safety inspection, basic circuit analysis and performance test on the 120V unit I received, and I'm impressed it works so well for something so cheap.  Once you get the bugs ironed out, its well worth the $63 I paid.

More later, but here are key items. 

I've re-viewed Dave's good video.  I'm not sure who cloned who, but there are subtle build difference between WEP/Yihua versus Atten, or it could be these are 120V versus 240V models.  If you need 120V, you must buy the 120V unit as the heater is mains powered.

Operation principle:

The unit is basically a mains powered hair dryer, with a "light dimmer" style Triac to adjust temperature to the heater, and the speed knob is a variable resistor that just reduces VDC fed to the fan.  A uC receives feedback from the heater sensors to maintain output temperature as dialed in. 

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=3461.0;attach=11464;image)

Here are the key issues:

WEP units have Yihua labeled PCBs, Dave's Atten had Atten labeled PCBs and used a different uC 

"120V" units have different transformers, in my case a 110V/50 Hz labeled one

The heater assembly is for 110V

The heater assembly has a temperature sensor than maintains output temperature once dialed in

The handset interface PCB has some exposed parts that were shorted with solder debris when I received mine, I had to clean it up and cover it with liquid insulator

The power switch was connected to the neutral line, I re-routed it to switch the hot line

The heater shroud is grounded, so are all exposed metal parts

The dialed in temperature needs to be calibrated to properly read output in Celsius

 
Title: WEP 858D was Re: DEADLY WIRING FAULT ; Atten 858D+
Post by: saturation on June 30, 2011, 02:51:47 pm
The mains plug is hard wired using a snap on strain resist then glued to the chassis, this is different from the Atten 858 unit reviewed by Dave.

The glue is weak.  Above it is the fuse holder with a plastic bolt.  Initially, the insulated heat shrink blue wire was nearly touching the casing of the transformer.  It was repositioned as in the photo, also the other end of the fuse block was bent away from the transformer body.  The fuse holder wasn't tightened properly so the assembly eventually spun when the fuse was screwed back in, breaking the glue hold that initially held it to chassis.  Simply tightening the plastic bold was enough, and I'll add better glue later. 

From the 120V, mains wiring, the blue wire is hot to the fuse, with the output wire going directly to the PCB.  The yellow wire is grounded to the transformer mount, the brown wire is neutral headed to the switch block.  The hot wire and neutral wire has to be rewired for safety reasons.

(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-Rsr-rckeXRQ/Tgx_v1TyiuI/AAAAAAAAAPo/xYbIiVLf19c/s512/2011-06-27_20-10-07_268.jpg)

You can see the transformer is 110V for the 120V market.  The color code for the secondary is labeled GRE but the wire is yellow.

(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-YzVvOs4CSS8/Tgx-ZtejqBI/AAAAAAAAAPA/EIyAVTL3XlE/s512/2011-06-27_20-11-11_246.jpg)

The heat gun has its shroud grounded by a high temperature soldered white woven insulated [ probably glass/silica] wire.  The heater is wrapped with mica paper and inserted into the shroud.  The yellow wire is the reed switch sensor.

(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-P266RlFejHo/Tgx-5W-_8wI/AAAAAAAAAPM/JHUR3S6b2NA/s512/2011-06-27_19-39-45_859.jpg)

The wiring harness interface PCB.  The white woven ground wire on the left is connected to the green ground wire on the right.  The yellow reed switch wires on the left are grounded on one end and then to a yellow sense wire on the right.  Note, the exposed wires with insulation stripped off; these were shorted by solder debris were later cleaned and the exposed wires covered with liquid tape.  The clear and grey wire on the right are connected to the neutral line of mains voltage and are connected to the large pair of red wires on the left.  Red and blue wires on the left are thermal sensor wires from the heater and are connected to the same color wires on the right.  VDC power for the fan is from the black and brown wires from the right.

(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-PzcQLqTKSSo/Tgx-9j7Nr2I/AAAAAAAAAPU/f5Y2xeuGFPc/s512/2011-06-27_19-45-25_989.jpg)

The heat gun disassembled. Power to the fan is taken from behind the PCB.  The mains wires are the solder points to the far right on the PCB, well separated from the VDC and DC sense wires grouped on the left.  The nozzles of this unit are bolted to the gun like a clamp, versus Dave's unit had which were simply inserted.

(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-gk1vs0ZLA14/TgyARv9rcyI/AAAAAAAAAP4/37WZeLJ0lIs/s512/2011-06-27_19-37-07_338.jpg)

Title: Re: DEADLY WIRING FAULT ; Atten 858D+ Hot Air Rework Station
Post by: saturation on July 01, 2011, 03:28:36 pm
I noticed a manual, FWIW, is not available on pdf anywhere on the net.  I scanned the English section as png graphics for reduced size.

Last fault I found, the ground connection from the heat gun to the chassis is not connected because of insulation caused by the paint.  Paint has to be stripped off on all screw joints so a proper connection can be made.  This also is required to make better connections between the top metal cover and the bottom half, where the ground wire is screwed in.

(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-4RioVHIwo6k/Tg-Yy7ktdTI/AAAAAAAAAQs/IVfexy4GX3c/s512/2011-07-02_16-34-07_142.jpg)
Title: Re: DEADLY WIRING FAULT ; Atten 858D+ Hot Air Rework Station
Post by: saturation on July 12, 2011, 07:23:30 pm
858D temperature calibration.  Updated data now inline with Hakko's recommendations.

The heat gun was fixed with a helping hand and a 1000 Celsius K-thermocouple fixed 5mm from the nozzle tip with another helping hand, and the angle adjusted for the maximum temperature transfer.   Per Hakko, this produces a fairly cosistent temperature in the 'sweet spot' and minimizes variation of temperature with air speeds.

858 8        5
LED speed speed
120 120 121
150 148 146
200 203 202
300 310 315
400 412 420
480 494 493


858 LED = readout of unit in Celsius
8 speed  = #8 fan speed temp in oC
5 speed  = #5 fan speed temp in oC


http://www.hakkousa.com/kb/Article.aspx?id=10340&cNode=0T3N5T (http://www.hakkousa.com/kb/Article.aspx?id=10340&cNode=0T3N5T)

(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-ar6BTs9tb1c/Th3Y3mFUXaI/AAAAAAAAATQ/Y9sLVO-DRfg/s512/2011-07-12_17-26-41_499.jpg)
Title: Re: DEADLY WIRING FAULT ; Atten 858D+ Hot Air Rework Station
Post by: SimonIremonger on August 13, 2011, 08:23:55 am
I found, indeed, that the casing was not grounded anywhere!  Same problem with paint all over the place.
Also, the mains plug didn't comply with BS1363 (shrouded earth pin!) and contained 13A fuse, highly inappropriate for the very thin bundle of strands in the cable...
I changed cables, scraped off paint all of those spots, and added a ground tab using the transformer's connection to the casing, directly to the earth pin on the inlet.

Initial looking at the circuit board suggests, also, that little attention is paid to isolating low and high voltages anywhere.  Had anybody noticed this?
Title: Re: DEADLY WIRING FAULT ; Atten 858D+ Hot Air Rework Station
Post by: saturation on August 13, 2011, 12:44:14 pm
I didn't think its too big a risk, as the minimum for safety was the chassis grounding and the fuse.  However, if you feel so compelled, you can take a dremel tool and cut grooves into the PCB to separate the mains voltage from the DC voltage.

As example, see the pic I posted of the handpiece PCB: this combines VDC for the fan connection, the temperature feedback sensor and the line voltage VAC for the heating element. 

The 2 large red wires at the bottom are VAC.  Its fed by the grey and clear wires coming from the station, on the right of the picture.  Notice how the DC and AC elements are grouped together and separated, and from the lighting you can see the conductive traces behind it.

(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-PzcQLqTKSSo/Tgx-9j7Nr2I/AAAAAAAAAPU/f5Y2xeuGFPc/s512/2011-06-27_19-45-25_989.jpg)

I think the separation is adequate, but if the AC did cross over into DC it would burn the components and at worse open circuit the device and at best, sustain a short long enough for the fuse to blow.  So, insure the fuse is well done and your grounding connections good.



I found, indeed, that the casing was not grounded anywhere!  Same problem with paint all over the place.
Also, the mains plug didn't comply with BS1363 (shrouded earth pin!) and contained 13A fuse, highly inappropriate for the very thin bundle of strands in the cable...
I changed cables, scraped off paint all of those spots, and added a ground tab using the transformer's connection to the casing, directly to the earth pin on the inlet.

Initial looking at the circuit board suggests, also, that little attention is paid to isolating low and high voltages anywhere.  Had anybody noticed this?

Title: Re: DEADLY WIRING FAULT ; Atten 858D+ Hot Air Rework Station
Post by: ablacon64 on October 07, 2011, 02:34:18 pm
Man, this is crazy. I'm glad you're fine. I've never seen something like this before, someone may get killed indeed.
Title: Re: DEADLY WIRING FAULT ; Atten 858D+ Hot Air Rework Station
Post by: SgtRock on October 08, 2011, 06:10:23 pm
Dear Tasman"

--I am glad to hear you are all right. You may indeed have saved someone's bacon with your warning. First they try to kill you with their fritzy "One Hung Low" DMMs with phoney CAT certifications, and now this. I am constantly reporting substandard knockoff products to eBay (a fat lot they care). Lately eBay  is swamped with phoney Hakko parts that do not fit right and may ruin your good Hakko equipment.

--Apparently a bunch of these mainland companies ship all of their incorrect first attempts and mistakes by beginning solderers out the back door and into the grey channel. Then they claim that was not us, it was one of those dastardly knockoff companies. If somehow they do get enough bad feedback, they just change to another one of their endless stream of identities.

--I had one of these companies tell me they would replace a two dollar defective party if I would change the feedback. I told them, that if they were truly honest they would replace the part and then ask for a change of feedback. I then told them I did not want a new part, but that I would change the feedback if they stopped selling it. Answer came there none.

Best Regards
Clear Ether
Title: Re: DEADLY WIRING FAULT ; Atten 858D+ Hot Air Rework Station
Post by: saturation on October 09, 2011, 11:16:18 am
The 858D is not something you'd run out of the box, but a unique feature of eevblog is finding value in devices and then hacking them to reveal their better potential.  In the case of the 858D, the basic design is sound, but the implementation requires rework.
Title: Re: DEADLY WIRING FAULT ; Atten 858D+ Hot Air Rework Station
Post by: Chet T16 on October 09, 2011, 11:54:31 am
I was sure i took my 858 apart when i got it and it was fine, starting to doubt myself now :/
Title: Re: DEADLY WIRING FAULT ; Atten 858D+ Hot Air Rework Station
Post by: saturation on October 09, 2011, 12:26:20 pm
Sorry to hear.  I think I posted all photos of the key defects, as did tasman. 

If you have some doubts compare it to our photos and if you're still not sure try posting a photo of the same areas such as the PCB of the handle.  I think tasman showed it but check continuity with an ohmeter of the handle and the ground plug, then open the case and check continuity of any point inside the case and the ground plug; ideally it should be near zero ohms.




I was sure i took my 858 apart when i got it and it was fine, starting to doubt myself now :/
Title: Re: DEADLY WIRING FAULT ; Atten 858D+ Hot Air Rework Station
Post by: FenderBender on October 10, 2011, 04:06:23 am
Yeah I don't have GFCI directly on my bench but down the line it's connected. It's saved me from seriously getting hurt when I do dumb things like short an IEC inlet with my hand...
Title: Re: DEADLY WIRING FAULT ; Atten 858D+ Hot Air Rework Station
Post by: alm on October 10, 2011, 08:17:40 am
Something is seriously wrong if you get shocked by an inlet.
Title: Re: DEADLY WIRING FAULT ; Atten 858D+ Hot Air Rework Station
Post by: FenderBender on October 10, 2011, 02:35:07 pm
Something is wrong with me or with the inlet?

I didn't realize it was on and grabbed it by the back probably making contact with all three terminals. Not sure exactly what happened  but GFCI kicked in.
Title: Re: DEADLY WIRING FAULT ; Atten 858D+ Hot Air Rework Station
Post by: Kibi on June 13, 2012, 08:51:41 pm
I took heed to the information in this thread.
My 858D+ arrived at work the other day, and since I have access to a PAT machine at work I thought I'd be responsible and give it a quick test.
It failed miserably. No ground to chassis. There is ground to the nozzle, but but it's over 1 Ohm, so the machine failed that part too. The 1 Ohm would be due to the relatively thin wires in the cable up to the hand piece.
I think just connecting a the chassis to ground will sort it out.
Title: Re: DEADLY WIRING FAULT ; Atten 858D+ Hot Air Rework Station
Post by: T4P on June 13, 2012, 09:06:22 pm
it's due to the thin wires but hey 1ohm is STILL much lower then 10k ohms
Title: Re: DEADLY WIRING FAULT ; Atten 858D+ Hot Air Rework Station
Post by: akcoder on September 15, 2012, 04:25:07 am
I thought I would add my voice to the mix here. I received my W.E.P. 858D today. Like everyone else, my unit was miswired. However some of the more glaring problems others had were not present on my unit.

What was right?

What was wrong?

-dan
Title: Re: DEADLY WIRING FAULT ; Atten 858D+ Hot Air Rework Station
Post by: T4P on September 15, 2012, 04:51:19 am
If you see dull solder joints it's definitely bad joints, i have never seen a china brand product with lead-free

Fused on the wrong leg? That's what they do to save money,  >:(
Title: Re: DEADLY WIRING FAULT ; Atten 858D+ Hot Air Rework Station
Post by: amyk on September 15, 2012, 11:08:40 am
If you see dull solder joints it's definitely bad joints, i have never seen a china brand product with lead-free

Fused on the wrong leg? That's what they do to save money,  >:(
When was the last time you bought electronics from China? They've been lead-free for years (RoHS), and leaded solder is becoming more expensive.

Title: Re: DEADLY WIRING FAULT ; Atten 858D+ Hot Air Rework Station
Post by: Monkeh on September 15, 2012, 11:34:55 am
If you see dull solder joints it's definitely bad joints, i have never seen a china brand product with lead-free

Yeah, right..

Quote
Fused on the wrong leg? That's what they do to save money,  >:(

... It doesn't save any money. They probably do it because they don't care, as many countries don't even bother with with polarised connections.
Title: Re: DEADLY WIRING FAULT ; Atten 858D+ Hot Air Rework Station
Post by: T4P on September 15, 2012, 01:17:34 pm
If you see dull solder joints it's definitely bad joints, i have never seen a china brand product with lead-free

Fused on the wrong leg? That's what they do to save money,  >:(
When was the last time you bought electronics from China? They've been lead-free for years (RoHS), and leaded solder is becoming more expensive.
'

RoHS my ass ... walk into the SEG and tell me if you come back with lead-free products. Want me to show it? I bought a couple of things from the SEG (which all dont work anymore properly) and the solder they use easily melt at 250C (Still bad solder but definitely not lead-free) with a 936
At least when it comes to Yihua and Atten and BEST i used them all i know what it is.
Title: Re: DEADLY WIRING FAULT ; Atten 858D+ Hot Air Rework Station
Post by: saturation on September 15, 2012, 04:21:25 pm
Just a side comment.  250C? Pb solder is 60-40 Sn/Pb or the eutectic mix all tend to melt under 200C, near 185C.  Most lead free solder in electronics tends to melt higher, over 210C and up.  Also one assume your station is properly calibrated to use melting point to estimate the alloy.  If it melts towards the low end, it suggests leaded solder, over 220C is more suggestive its lead free.

RoHS my ass ... walk into the SEG and tell me if you come back with lead-free products. Want me to show it? I bought a couple of things from the SEG (which all dont work anymore properly) and the solder they use easily melt at 250C (Still bad solder but definitely not lead-free) with a 936
At least when it comes to Yihua and Atten and BEST i used them all i know what it is.
Title: Re: DEADLY WIRING FAULT ; Atten 858D+ Hot Air Rework Station
Post by: T4P on September 15, 2012, 09:07:46 pm
NOTE : 250C points to bad solder. Instant melting

Lead-free solder that easily melts at 220C is either pointed to two things : Well wetted tip and a station with lots of thermal horsepower metcal/jbc/fx-951/QK202D

You seriously expect good solder to come out of china? No way. The only lead-free chinese board i met required me to turn up to 380C
Title: Re: DEADLY WIRING FAULT ; Atten 858D+ Hot Air Rework Station
Post by: arekm on September 16, 2012, 08:35:38 am
btw. QK202D is rebranded Quick 202D from China (http://www.quickchina.com.cn/product/2006-8-23/200682380334.html (http://www.quickchina.com.cn/product/2006-8-23/200682380334.html)).
Title: Re: DEADLY WIRING FAULT ; Atten 858D+ Hot Air Rework Station
Post by: T4P on September 16, 2012, 10:45:46 am
I know. In fact the first thing i knew about the QK202D is that it's made by Quick and they don't do model rebrands. QK stands for QUICK
Title: Re: DEADLY WIRING FAULT ; Atten 858D+ Hot Air Rework Station
Post by: htassell on September 16, 2012, 11:43:51 am
Reading this thread made me remeber that I picked one of these rework stations up a year or so ago for $60 delivered via AliExpress. I haven't had the need to use it as I bought a JBC system instead, but I thought I'd pull it out and have a look.

Unsurprisingly, it also features some of the issues reported in this thread. Overall however, once these problems were rectified, the station performs quite well. Really well actually, when you consider the fact that it is 1/15th the cost of the JBC station I purchased.

My specific unit is a Saike 898D, but is functionally identical to the Atten stations discussed here with a Hakko 900 style soldering iron added into the mix.

(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8449/7991425350_bfc8aa45d8_b.jpg)

Here's a view of the front panel PCB - typical mess with power and signal wires bunched together.

(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8030/7991424546_eb150501cc_b.jpg)

You can also see the earth post in the lower right of the image. The yellow wire is from the transformer chassis ground, the thin green wire is from the metal shroud of the hot air hand piece.

There is another similar earth post at the upper left of the photo hidden behind the bundle of wires. This one is again joined to transformer chassis ground and the front panel, and also earths the exposed metal of the soldering iron.

(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8299/7991412691_0a7e44d186_b.jpg)

This image shows the station with the rear panel removed. It also shows the major problems with this station. Firstly, there is no strain relief on the mains inlet cord. There is just a dab of glue and the grommet holding it there.

You can also see that the earth wire from the mains lead is in fact not connected to anything at all. It has been stripped and tinned, so obviously there was the intention to solder it to the earthing tab that you can see in the background on the bolt fastening the transformer to the case, but it must have been missed.

(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8181/7991419340_76a41b1a7c_b.jpg)

Finally, it is also obvious to see that the fuse is connected to the neutral rather than active.

(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8306/7991417618_d2e7dc6e24_b.jpg)

In terms of the hot air wand, there are no signs of grinding or hacking of the fan enclosure to make it fit. Likewise all wires are well attached to the PCB with no large stretches of bare copper exposed or anything like that seen in other stations.

(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8036/7991416858_62e2d16e22_b.jpg)

So after strain relief was fitted to the mains cable, the mains earth wire re-attached, and the active and neutral swapped around plus a bit of tidying up and re-bundling of wires, the station was good to go.

It actually works really quite well and I'm happy with it, certainly for the $60 delivered I paid for it. Having a second unit is handy because I can have it set for lead free temperature, while my main JBC station is set for 60/40 which I work with most.

Cheers,

Hugh
Title: Re: DEADLY WIRING FAULT ; Atten 858D+ Hot Air Rework Station
Post by: T4P on September 16, 2012, 11:59:47 am
I think you should reverse their roles  ;D
Leave the lead-free for the JBC, because lead-free requires a little more power on the 936 but hey, if you hardly ever work with lead-free it doesn't matter

Anyway, be careful with using it in environments warmer than 28C, my Yihua (who seems to be the OEM for Saike) 858D failed in short order after a month or rather combined usage of a few hours overheated the triac... in 35C environments
Title: Re: DEADLY WIRING FAULT ; Atten 858D+ Hot Air Rework Station
Post by: htassell on September 16, 2012, 12:16:43 pm
Thanks for the heads-up. I imagine I'll rarely use it, just occasionally when I'm fixing something I haven't made.

 I'm in Tassie, so the average temp down here would be something like 19 degrees or so  :)
Title: Re: DEADLY WIRING FAULT ; Atten 858D+ Hot Air Rework Station
Post by: GEuser on September 16, 2012, 01:15:51 pm
htassell , that hot gun is nearly exactly the same in my new YiHua 853d , see on the pcb board a YH !, the only slight difference is the colour of wires to the heater , i think (its all back together) there were 2 clear wires but i cannot remember if they were from the sensor or reed switch now , but a carbon copy and works well for the cost ...
Title: Re: DEADLY WIRING FAULT ; Atten 858D+ Hot Air Rework Station
Post by: T4P on September 16, 2012, 01:40:08 pm
htassell , that hot gun is nearly exactly the same in my new YiHua 853d , see on the pcb board a YH !, the only slight difference is the colour of wires to the heater , i think (its all back together) there were 2 clear wires but i cannot remember if they were from the sensor or reed switch now , but a carbon copy and works well for the cost ...
Well ... Yihua is known as a OEM actually
Title: Re: DEADLY WIRING FAULT ; Atten 858D+ Hot Air Rework Station
Post by: GEuser on September 16, 2012, 02:28:33 pm
Ok , i now know too!  ;D
Title: Re: DEADLY WIRING FAULT ; Atten 858D+ Hot Air Rework Station
Post by: Jimmy the Squid on September 20, 2012, 01:09:00 am
Just got one of these, and tore it right the heck apart. I was very surprised that find everything in order. Fuse on the hot, mains connected correctly, and ground to chassis and to metal parts nozzle. The machine is labled YiHua, as are all the boards inside. The construction was a bit sloppily done, bit the solder connections all look good. I was somewhat annoyed at their propensity to use whatever color wire they had laying around instead of using some sort of logic. But at least it functions properly and probably won't kill me.

There was even a shiny holographic Q.C. sticker on the outside. Of course the sticker did say "Qenuine Q.C. Passed". I guess they spell "genuine" with a 'Q' in China.

Anyway, I had fun taking it apart, and I really appreciated this thread that helped me to look out for all the potential pitfalls.
Title: Re: DEADLY WIRING FAULT ; Atten 858D+ Hot Air Rework Station
Post by: saturation on September 20, 2012, 11:49:06 am
Great.  Hopefully the complaints raised here helped.  Few reports of the main board going, or parts failing, so it suggests the supplier is decent, so all complaints focused on assembly; that should be easy to remedy, just tell the assembler foreman to insure the proper order and not let things slide.

Chinese stuff can be devious, those QC stickers could be just stuck there for marketing more than true QC.  If you go to hardware stores in Asia, they sell QC stickers of all types in rolls for anyone to buy.'

http://www.mavericklabel.com/products/imprinted-hologram-stickers.php (http://www.mavericklabel.com/products/imprinted-hologram-stickers.php)

http://www.alibaba.com/product-gs/577287841/Custom_made_adhesive_holographic_quality_control.html (http://www.alibaba.com/product-gs/577287841/Custom_made_adhesive_holographic_quality_control.html)

Luckily you did your own QC thanks to the folks who have posted on various 858D threads that was sparked by Dave's initial purchase.

You may want to buy a spare heater element because they are not easy to find and there is no part number to reference, so ask the seller you got it from if they have any and get a few; I got 1 for $6 delivered.  Enjoy.



Just got one of these, and tore it right the heck apart. I was very surprised that find everything in order. Fuse on the hot, mains connected correctly, and ground to chassis and to metal parts nozzle. The machine is labled YiHua, as are all the boards inside. The construction was a bit sloppily done, bit the solder connections all look good. I was somewhat annoyed at their propensity to use whatever color wire they had laying around instead of using some sort of logic. But at least it functions properly and probably won't kill me.

There was even a shiny holographic Q.C. sticker on the outside. Of course the sticker did say "Qenuine Q.C. Passed". I guess they spell "genuine" with a 'Q' in China.

Anyway, I had fun taking it apart, and I really appreciated this thread that helped me to look out for all the potential pitfalls.
Title: Re: DEADLY WIRING FAULT ; Atten 858D+ Hot Air Rework Station
Post by: nukie on September 20, 2012, 01:04:40 pm
They should really just offer it as a kit. What's the point of building it if you can't get it right. Get someone to write a crap assembly instructions let the internet refine the steps. And voila you got some nice kits for sale.

tapatalk
Title: Re: DEADLY WIRING FAULT ; Atten 858D+ Hot Air Rework Station
Post by: saturation on September 20, 2012, 01:38:32 pm
I think of all China brand equipment as kits, that's why the tear downs are invaluable, one can know what to expect.  Why bother assemble the whole thing, its easier and faster to check the work and fix what needs fixing.  Kits only matters if the owner is new to electronics and needs to learn as well as use the item. 

If the Chinese can't write or hire someone to write a users manuals in English, instructions for assembly would likely be far worse.
Title: Re: DEADLY WIRING FAULT ; Atten 858D+ Hot Air Rework Station
Post by: T4P on September 20, 2012, 02:04:55 pm
Forget about writing instructions, they can't even get datasheets done properly ... damn china
I'm still impressed by Cyrustek's datasheets even being Taiwanese ...
Title: Re: DEADLY WIRING FAULT ; Atten 858D+ Hot Air Rework Station
Post by: GEuser on September 20, 2012, 02:09:31 pm
The kit thing saturation is exactly how i was explaining them on another place to someone a few weeks back too , but i used the scenario that the kit had be assembled by someone like ME and a purchaser then brought it and had to clean it up a tad .
Title: Re: DEADLY WIRING FAULT ; Atten 858D+ Hot Air Rework Station
Post by: nukie on September 20, 2012, 11:57:38 pm
Most Chinese chips are copies of the western products that's why you dont see datasheet. Often I find chips that has same pinout, same packaging, look into thr datasheet 100% exact copy. How they perform in real world I am not so sure.

tapatalk
Title: Re: DEADLY WIRING FAULT ; Atten 858D+ Hot Air Rework Station
Post by: Monkeh on December 02, 2012, 07:36:20 pm
Is the market demand really so biased to this line voltage

Well, yes. The exceptions to 240VAC 50Hz consist of: The USA, Canada, Japan, and various South American countries. The entire planet uses 240V 50Hz with the exception of those under the thumb of the US.

Including Hong Kong, the source of most of these devices, who also share the same plug as the UK.
Title: Re: DEADLY WIRING FAULT ; Atten 858D+ Hot Air Rework Station
Post by: dr_p on December 05, 2012, 08:38:30 am
I have one of these Atten 858D on it's way from Hong Kong. I was planning on a teardown to check for issues, even whithout knowing of this topic. Now that I read it it's definitely getting a thorough inspection.

Nicest surprise from the chinese QC was a extension cord that had "one of the other wires"  :-DD  and ground swithed over. Since I live in Europe, our plugs don't care for polarity. First time I plugged it in it worked fine because the neutral went to ground and vice-versa, which it did anyway in the panel board(no RCD). Second time I plugged it the other way around and got hot on the chassis ground.  |O As a bonus the equipment that's plugged in was not working, so it begged for me to touch it.  :-/O

I then realized there's a problem, opened the extension cord and checked for continuity, since the colors were right (yellow/green to ground) and found out that they were switched over insinde the moulded plug. It wasn't my cord to throw away, so I text labeled them and soldered them the correct way.
Title: Re: DEADLY WIRING FAULT ; Atten 858D+ Hot Air Rework Station
Post by: saturation on December 05, 2012, 12:18:59 pm
ouch, yes, dr_p, you have a new set of unique faults to contribute; just again supporting a big issue is variations within their assembly quality.  If you have the time, photos of these issues would help to add to the discussion and archives for future readers.


I have one of these Atten 858D on it's way from Hong Kong. I was planning on a teardown to check for issues, even whithout knowing of this topic. Now that I read it it's definitely getting a thorough inspection.

Nicest surprise from the chinese QC was a extension cord that had "one of the other wires"  :-DD  and ground swithed over. Since I live in Europe, our plugs don't care for polarity. First time I plugged it in it worked fine because the neutral went to ground and vice-versa, which it did anyway in the panel board(no RCD). Second time I plugged it the other way around and got hot on the chassis ground.  |O As a bonus the equipment that's plugged in was not working, so it begged for me to touch it.  :-/O

I then realized there's a problem, opened the extension cord and checked for continuity, since the colors were right (yellow/green to ground) and found out that they were switched over insinde the moulded plug. It wasn't my cord to throw away, so I text labeled them and soldered them the correct way.
Title: Re: DEADLY WIRING FAULT ; Atten 858D+ Hot Air Rework Station
Post by: uhmgawa on January 01, 2013, 05:59:05 pm
Is the market demand really so biased to this line voltage

Well, yes. The exceptions to 240VAC 50Hz consist of: The USA, Canada, Japan, and various South American countries.

I believe a few countries, notably Taiwan and Mexico have been omitted from the above roster.

Quote
The entire planet uses 240V 50Hz with the exception of those under the thumb of the US.

We like it that way -- keeps out the riffraff.
However my question rather was of actual market sales volume vs.that of global outlet tally.

In any case it appears the 110V units have become more common though the 230V units still dominate.
In particular replacement heaters for this and cloned designs are less common and substantially more
expensive.  It is possible though to parallel fold a 220V element in mid stride with an iron wire and brass crimp
if need be.

Something I haven't seen discussed is the variation in nozzle mounting style.  It appears the
current majority of units have a bottom flanged bayonet style push & spanner turn configuration.
Less common seem to be a dimpled/deformed pin and groove bayonet, and lastly a conventional
22mm clamp nozzle.  I've even seen one vendor of the flanged bayonet offer what appears to be a
22mm clamp adapter.  Presumably to allow use of existing specialty nozzles using a 22mm clamp
mount.
Title: Re: DEADLY WIRING FAULT ; Atten 858D+ Hot Air Rework Station
Post by: uhmgawa on January 01, 2013, 06:57:40 pm
In terms of the hot air wand, there are no signs of grinding or hacking of the fan enclosure to make it fit. Likewise all wires are well attached to the PCB with no large stretches of bare copper exposed or anything like that seen in other stations.

(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8036/7991416858_62e2d16e22_b.jpg)

So after strain relief was fitted to the mains cable, the mains earth wire re-attached, and the active and neutral swapped around plus a bit of tidying up and re-bundling of wires, the station was good to go.

Perhaps you have an early version of the wand where the brass screw boss inserts in the cable end hadn't been cost reduced out yet.
It also appears the reed switch may have an actual mount clip vs the dribbling of epoxy I'd found in a recent wep858 and xpower 8786d.
In both of these units the bare molded bosses into which the connection PCB screw mounts, were cracked.  I believe the thermoplastic
used is glass filled and more brittle than say unadorned ABS which has sufficient resilience to give when the screw self threads.

These hot air tools work remarkably well given their many shortcomings.  I'd go as far to say they may be one of the few original
(+/-) product designs I've seen appear from Chinese vendors.  I'm trying very hard to ignore the S3F9454 being socketed which
almost invites displacing it with a plugin uC board to address existing firmware quirks, add custom features, etc..
Title: Re: DEADLY WIRING FAULT ; Atten 858D+ Hot Air Rework Station
Post by: T4P on February 09, 2013, 07:51:28 am
Nope, those are the Yihua ones, i bought mine 2 years ago and it broke
The fan is pretty piss poor but the machine inserts are fantastic, though there's a LOT of restriction on the handle
the shape of the atten handles are a bit better but not as smooth as yihua
Title: Re: DEADLY WIRING FAULT ; Atten 858D+ Hot Air Rework Station
Post by: devhdc on February 20, 2013, 10:32:37 am
Seeing as I'm just getting into electronics, and ordered one of these for testing out some minor reballing, I'd truly appreciate a detailed breakdown of what could conceivably be fixed .. And better yet, a video detailing potential errors, and documenting the work to fix it.
Title: New design
Post by: matteo_galet on May 10, 2013, 09:24:24 pm
Hello,
after weeks reading through lots of topics about this hot air station, I finally bought one AT8586 from AliExpress:

http://www.aliexpress.com/item/220V-ATTEN-AT8586-2in1-Hot-Air-SMD-Rework-Soldering-Station-Desoldering-Station/387167165.html (http://www.aliexpress.com/item/220V-ATTEN-AT8586-2in1-Hot-Air-SMD-Rework-Soldering-Station-Desoldering-Station/387167165.html)

It took 10 days to dispatch the order plus 3 days to get here in Italy with DHL/DPD/BRT (yes, 3 couriers involved - God knows why), but hey, for just 62€ (78$) it's fair.
The unit came with an akward chinese power plug, took me 4 seconds to replace with a common schucko.
Well... it... works! The stylus welder is even better than my old Weller Red-series analog one, while the hot air blower really does its job!
Before plugging it in I carefully disassembled the main unit and the blower, and found very nice cabling and good PCB quality - double face, with soldermask.
Long story short, all the issues I read about seems solved, and the overall quality improved.
All metal shields are grounded, the fuse case is now embedded into the socket/switch module, no pinched wires around.
Good work Atten, I'm proud of having spent 60€ on something I really needed.
Here you are some pictures of the thing.
Ciao!

(http://imageshack.us/a/img832/4421/p1020802l.jpg)

(http://imageshack.us/a/img9/8128/p1020801dn.jpg)

(http://imageshack.us/a/img841/4742/p1020800v.jpg)

(http://imageshack.us/a/img803/1617/p1020799n.jpg)

(http://imageshack.us/a/img694/6718/p1020798e.jpg)

(http://imageshack.us/a/img812/5733/p1020796s.jpg)
Title: Re: DEADLY WIRING FAULT ; Atten 858D+ Hot Air Rework Station
Post by: SgtRock on May 11, 2013, 03:20:26 am
Dear Monkeh:

--You said "The entire planet uses 240V 50Hz with the exception of those under the thumb of the US.". An interesting an provocative assertion. I would be very interested to see any evidence of the US forcing countries "under its thumb" to use 240V 50Hz. Do you have any similar theories about which side of an automobile the steering wheel is on?

"Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence"
Carl Sagan 1934-1996

Best Regards
Clear Ether
Title: Re: DEADLY WIRING FAULT ; Atten 858D+ Hot Air Rework Station
Post by: pickle9000 on May 11, 2013, 04:26:24 am
Canada shares the same power grid, we sell massive amounts of electricity to the states. It's basically an infrastructure issue, cheaper to keep the same system. I expect the US companies sold the same building blocks to the other countries. Is it fair to "under it thumb", I'd probably say convenient and a way to earn a buck. Why not sell equipment from your own country to make a profit (I have no problem with that)? In any case these things happened long ago.
Title: Re: New design
Post by: justanothercanuck on May 11, 2013, 06:26:40 am
http://imageshack.us/a/img803/1617/p1020799n.jpg (http://imageshack.us/a/img803/1617/p1020799n.jpg)

Is it just me, or does the resistor in the bottom left corner look like it has a bad solder job?
Title: Re: DEADLY WIRING FAULT ; Atten 858D+ Hot Air Rework Station
Post by: Monkeh on May 11, 2013, 06:50:27 am
Dear Monkeh:

--You said "The entire planet uses 240V 50Hz with the exception of those under the thumb of the US.". An interesting an provocative assertion. I would be very interested to see any evidence of the US forcing countries "under its thumb" to use 240V 50Hz. Do you have any similar theories about which side of an automobile the steering wheel is on?

"Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence"
Carl Sagan 1934-1996

Best Regards
Clear Ether

That's not how I meant it and you know it. But you keep looking for an argument, I'll just leave you with this:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/f5/Weltkarte_der_Netzspannungen_und_Netzfrequenzen.svg/2000px-Weltkarte_der_Netzspannungen_und_Netzfrequenzen.svg.png (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/f5/Weltkarte_der_Netzspannungen_und_Netzfrequenzen.svg/2000px-Weltkarte_der_Netzspannungen_und_Netzfrequenzen.svg.png)
Title: Re: New design
Post by: matteo_galet on May 11, 2013, 06:52:05 am
Is it just me, or does the resistor in the bottom left corner look like it has a bad solder job?

It looks like those pins got less solder than others, but I'm pretty confident there is enough on the bottom side.
Title: Re: DEADLY WIRING FAULT ; Atten 858D+ Hot Air Rework Station
Post by: aquaaddict on May 30, 2013, 04:55:35 am
Just got one of these, and tore it right the heck apart. I was very surprised that find everything in order.
....
There was even a shiny holographic Q.C. sticker on the outside. Of course the sticker did say "Qenuine Q.C. Passed". I guess they spell "genuine" with a 'Q' in China.

I have just ordered this 'Scotle' branded one from ebay http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/181140428736?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2649 (http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/181140428736?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2649) as the photo also shows that same  holagraphic type sticker; I know you dont always get whats in the ebay pic but interestingly they also have A LOT of pics of the inside of the unit (inc the fan with no bits hacked off) and it (allegedly) undergoing compliance testing.

Seems this seller specialises in rework equipment.

Shame it doesnt have an IEC inlet (easily solved  :-/O ) but will be interesting to see how it compares to the pictures and what faults it has; although to be honest for $56 delivered I dont care if it needs a few tweaks before putting it in to service. I'll let you know what its like when it arrives.

Anthony
Title: Re: DEADLY WIRING FAULT ; Atten 858D+ Hot Air Rework Station
Post by: aquaaddict on June 04, 2013, 08:06:08 am
It arrived today, thats about 1 week from the far East to Perth, it was sent DHL which is amazing for the price.

It too has the holographic sticker on the front as per the listing pics.

Fan looks good, nothing cut from it and the pcb in the handle is all neat.
wiring is around the right way, but no attempt to eartg the front or back metal panel so ill scratch some paint off where they join.

only other thing that concerned me was this
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/06/04/ysa5atyb.jpg)
the legs dont actually touch but I might reverse the resistors so the leg sticking up and out is pointing towards the cap instead.

one of the nozzles is a loose fit it just rotates so need to bend the 3 liitle tabs on it some more for a good friction fit when rotated to lock in place.

oh and the red plastic lens for the display is a little recessed on one side where it has to much glue under the lip but that may just be being picky on somthing  so cheap.

Fized cable with Euro plug supplied with travel adapter, will put iec socket or replace cable.

panel mount fuse and cable relief both addionally glued .

Anthony
Title: Re: DEADLY WIRING FAULT ; Atten 858D+ Hot Air Rework Station
Post by: Monkeh on June 04, 2013, 08:10:53 am
Fized cable with Euro plug supplied with travel adapter, will put iec socket or replace cable.

You know you can replace the plug without changing the entire cable.. right?
Title: Re: Re: DEADLY WIRING FAULT ; Atten 858D+ Hot Air Rework Station
Post by: aquaaddict on June 04, 2013, 08:25:06 am
You know you can replace the plug without changing the entire cable.. right?

ha ha yes, but Ill just chop the iec plug off a spare iec mains cable and use that so has moulded mains plug on the other end. I work in IT so I always have spare free iec cables around.

Oh and anyone know what this is?
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/06/04/emanahyq.jpg)

I am sure it is obvious but I cant see it...

Anthony
Title: Re: Re: DEADLY WIRING FAULT ; Atten 858D+ Hot Air Rework Station
Post by: Monkeh on June 04, 2013, 08:43:05 am
You know you can replace the plug without changing the entire cable.. right?

ha ha yes, but Ill just chop the iec plug off a spare iec mains cable and use that so has moulded mains plug on the other end. I work in IT so I always have spare free iec cables around.

You trust moulded plugs more than one you've assembled yourself?

And, uh.. I don't know. Hot nozzle stand?
Title: Re: Re: DEADLY WIRING FAULT ; Atten 858D+ Hot Air Rework Station
Post by: BillyD on June 04, 2013, 09:27:15 am
Oh and anyone know what this is?
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/06/04/emanahyq.jpg)

I am sure it is obvious but I cant see it...

Anthony

I puzzled over that for a while too and concluded (possibly incorrectly) that you use the screw to assemble it into a springy fork shape, and use it for holding components in place while soldering them.
Title: Re: DEADLY WIRING FAULT ; Atten 858D+ Hot Air Rework Station
Post by: aquaaddict on June 04, 2013, 09:31:06 am
yes some sort of very basic tweezers type arrangment was the only conclusion I reached but it would be so poor I presumed it must have a better use
Title: Re: DEADLY WIRING FAULT ; Atten 858D+ Hot Air Rework Station
Post by: BravoV on June 04, 2013, 09:32:00 am
That is a FP smd pickup wire and the handle, just google for Hakko 850B manual in pdf and see for your self.
Title: Re: DEADLY WIRING FAULT ; Atten 858D+ Hot Air Rework Station
Post by: Monkeh on June 04, 2013, 09:43:06 am
Ahh, so it's what fancy people use instead of flipping the part off the board with a screwdriver. ;)
Title: Re: DEADLY WIRING FAULT ; Atten 858D+ Hot Air Rework Station
Post by: BravoV on June 04, 2013, 09:45:47 am
Just downloaded and grabbed the picture in the Hakko 850B manual, the photo below should be self explanatory.

Title: Re: DEADLY WIRING FAULT ; Atten 858D+ Hot Air Rework Station
Post by: saturation on June 04, 2013, 12:41:07 pm
Its more versatile than the Hakko manual shows.  You can squeeze or expand the fork to fit different spaced components; you can also use one end at a time; in through hole components you can insert it between leads and twist or lift it up to pull the leads out of the holes while desoldering or using hot air.  I use that tool a lot, before it I used sold wire or paper clips.
Title: Re: DEADLY WIRING FAULT ; Atten 858D+ Hot Air Rework Station
Post by: zany on June 22, 2013, 02:33:05 am
Bought one of these Atten units 2 weeks ago... looks like I'll have to tear it apart!   :)  Will take some pics, hopefully most QA issues have been resolved.
Title: Re: DEADLY WIRING FAULT ; Atten 858D+ Hot Air Rework Station
Post by: zany on June 22, 2013, 05:51:22 am
Apologies in advance for the crappy quality of the photos... really need another camera...

Notes:

- Earth ground is connected to chassis via lower rear right screw, the back plate and body metal have been sanded down to bare metal.
- continuity passed from metal nozzle of handle and bracket metal to earth prong of IEC
- measured 28 Ohms from metal nozzle to earth prong, OL from bracket metal to earth prong
Title: Re: DEADLY WIRING FAULT ; Atten 858D+ Hot Air Rework Station
Post by: saturation on June 22, 2013, 12:27:29 pm
Your photos are very blurry, its not the camera is the focusing.  Good luck with the repairs.
Title: Re: DEADLY WIRING FAULT ; Atten 858D+ Hot Air Rework Station
Post by: staze on August 13, 2013, 04:24:32 am
So, purchased one of these from sainsmart (110V obviously), and it just arrived today. Before powering it up, I took it apart, and for the most part, everything looks good (though it smells like they boxed it within minutes of its paint job... smells like an autobody shop).

Nozzle and body of unit are grounded (nozzle has a nice solder to ground, body is grounded through one of the bolts on the transformer. Bolts have lock-washers. Interesting that the transformer is listed as 110V/50Hz. Guessing the 10V higher we have here, and the 10Hz extra shouldn't be an issue (would think the frequency would only matter for any kind of clock using mains frequency).

Fused on the hot leg of the wiring, nice.

Alas, it's switched neutral. While certainly not a deadly fault (hey, they used to do this on house wiring in the states), I will fix it. I just don't get why they'd do it that way... how much could it really save?

Anyone have suggestions for how to fix the switching? Figured I'd just cut the current switched neutral, solder and heatshrink, then cut and solder in some splices to have the hot switched. Anyone have a more elegant solution? 16g stranded good enough for the load?
Title: Re: DEADLY WIRING FAULT ; Atten 858D+ Hot Air Rework Station
Post by: amyk on August 13, 2013, 07:55:11 am
Alas, it's switched neutral. While certainly not a deadly fault (hey, they used to do this on house wiring in the states), I will fix it. I just don't get why they'd do it that way... how much could it really save?
It saves cutting and connecting one more piece of wire... probably a not insignificant cost if you're building millions of units.
Title: Re: DEADLY WIRING FAULT ; Atten 858D+ Hot Air Rework Station
Post by: Monkeh on August 13, 2013, 10:09:21 am
16g stranded good enough for the load?

16?! What is this, a welder? You'd get away with 22 easily.
Title: Re: DEADLY WIRING FAULT ; Atten 858D+ Hot Air Rework Station
Post by: staze on August 13, 2013, 03:56:55 pm
For 110v, 700W? Would think 22g would be a bit small for that... 16g is probably a bit big too. =)
Title: Re: DEADLY WIRING FAULT ; Atten 858D+ Hot Air Rework Station
Post by: Monkeh on August 13, 2013, 04:29:00 pm
For 110v, 700W? Would think 22g would be a bit small for that... 16g is probably a bit big too. =)

Only if you're using the shit 60C rated stuff.
Title: Re: DEADLY WIRING FAULT ; Atten 858D+ Hot Air Rework Station
Post by: staze on August 13, 2013, 10:40:09 pm
Cool.

Though kind of moot at this point. Took the unit apart and the power switch proceeded to fall apart (blade came out, remaining one appears loose as well).

Have contacted the seller, but am not holding out much hope... guess I could file a paypal grievance should that not work.
Title: Re: DEADLY WIRING FAULT ; Atten 858D+ Hot Air Rework Station
Post by: Monkeh on August 14, 2013, 11:13:21 am
Eh, I'd just take it as the price of cheap tools and replace the switch.
Title: Re: DEADLY WIRING FAULT ; Atten 858D+ Hot Air Rework Station
Post by: staze on August 14, 2013, 05:38:26 pm
Eh, I'd just take it as the price of cheap tools and replace the switch.

Yup. Found a "real" replacement made by Cherry that I ordered through Digikey. In credit to sainsmart, they offered to pay for the replacement plus shipping. =) So, cool!
Title: Re: DEADLY WIRING FAULT ; Atten 858D+ Hot Air Rework Station
Post by: geostep on August 16, 2013, 01:54:31 am
I found this post in the 'Other Equipment and Products' forum:

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/reviews/lights-flicker-when-using-wep-858d-rwork-station/ (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/reviews/lights-flicker-when-using-wep-858d-rwork-station/)

I warned him about the dangers of the 858D and told him to read this thread.  I hope he does!   :scared:

- George
Title: Re: DEADLY WIRING FAULT ; Atten 858D+ Hot Air Rework Station
Post by: staze on August 16, 2013, 01:56:46 am
Could be, and yes, safer to open it up and look, but I'm guessing he's just overloading that circuit... no different than running a vacuum or clothes iron and having the lights flicker.
Title: Re: DEADLY WIRING FAULT ; Atten 858D+ Hot Air Rework Station
Post by: Frenchie on August 23, 2013, 12:23:44 pm
Finally got around to buying one of these in the 220V version. Mains wiring was surprisingly good compared to some of the examples seen here. I wasn't real impressed with the strain relief in the handle, nothing a bit of hot snot can't address though.
Title: Re: DEADLY WIRING FAULT ; Atten 858D+ Hot Air Rework Station
Post by: Koubik on October 01, 2013, 06:31:53 pm
Hi everyone! just want to share my experience. I received my ATTEN 858D+ 4 days ago, everything was working great for the first 3-4 times but today when I've turned it on I  saw the temp screen numbers going crazy, but it was under 100C only above 100 it was showing good. Then I spotted that temp was raising way to slow, 3 minutes to go to 350C and only to 370-380 not more, sometimes only to 280. So I opened  a nozzle to check if there was any problem, redid all the joints but nothing. Then I unscrewed the mainboard to check the joints there and guess what...it worked, only by unscrewing it. There is one very bad big join so I hope this was a problem. Sorry for my English folks. ::)
Title: Re: DEADLY WIRING FAULT ; Atten 858D+ Hot Air Rework Station
Post by: saturation on October 09, 2013, 11:34:50 am
If this worked check for a cold or broken joint still around, the unflexing of the mobo caused the poor connect to close.

Hi everyone! just want to share my experience. I received my ATTEN 858D+ 4 days ago, everything was working great for the first 3-4 times but today when I've turned it on I  saw the temp screen numbers going crazy, but it was under 100C only above 100 it was showing good. Then I spotted that temp was raising way to slow, 3 minutes to go to 350C and only to 370-380 not more, sometimes only to 280. So I opened  a nozzle to check if there was any problem, redid all the joints but nothing. Then I unscrewed the mainboard to check the joints there and guess what...it worked, only by unscrewing it. There is one very bad big join so I hope this was a problem. Sorry for my English folks. ::)
Title: Re: DEADLY WIRING FAULT ; Atten 858D+ Hot Air Rework Station
Post by: Molybdo42 on October 15, 2013, 06:53:33 pm
I also bought this station and I am kind of not reassured :
- high and low voltage wires are systematically zip-tied together
- no ground connection to chassis and paint everywhere
- dodgy ground connection on the heater
- heater is powered by the mains
- thin wires used to carry the 230V to the heater in close proximity to low voltage wires

Made in China...
Title: Re: DEADLY WIRING FAULT ; Atten 858D+ Hot Air Rework Station
Post by: Monkeh on October 15, 2013, 06:58:13 pm
So would you rather they power the heater with 24V and have a gigantic thick cable?
Title: Re: DEADLY WIRING FAULT ; Atten 858D+ Hot Air Rework Station
Post by: Molybdo42 on October 15, 2013, 08:31:33 pm
So would you rather they power the heater with 24V and have a gigantic thick cable?

Well... Most of the power consumed by this soldering station goes into the heating element and it uses a 5A fuse.
In worst case scenario (ex : failure of temp sensor), can this small wire handle 1150W ?
Title: Re: DEADLY WIRING FAULT ; Atten 858D+ Hot Air Rework Station
Post by: Monkeh on October 15, 2013, 09:09:52 pm
So would you rather they power the heater with 24V and have a gigantic thick cable?

Well... Most of the power consumed by this soldering station goes into the heating element and it uses a 5A fuse.
In worst case scenario (ex : failure of temp sensor), can this small wire handle 1150W ?

Probably. You want to shove 30A+ up to the handpiece?
Title: Re: DEADLY WIRING FAULT ; Atten 858D+ Hot Air Rework Station
Post by: M. András on October 17, 2013, 08:36:15 pm
just got a 852d+ rework station. well the thing has no earth wire to the hotairgun :) i wont change nozzle on that thing without unplugging thats for sure. second i had to tweak the trimpots on the thing to get atleast acceptable temp difference between the displayed temp and the measured temp with a thermocouple, approx 1-2cm from the nozzle initially it was over a 100celsius difference rest was ok didnt even bothered with the iron as i have an expensive weller station. for the price it worth this, but need a bit of practice couldnt get the scrap board to gain enough temp to remove a soic ic
Title: Re: DEADLY WIRING FAULT ; Atten 858D+ Hot Air Rework Station
Post by: alias_neo on October 29, 2013, 05:18:36 pm
I just bought the Atten branded one myself, it's in an Atten box, by all accounts I would believe it was a genuine OEM.

However, as soon as I open the box, I notice two things, first, the station does NOT have holes in the right hand side to switch the wand cradle over. I'm a lefty so that sucks for me. Of course I can add the holes myself, but to me it indicated I have a clone.

Second, the calibration pin on the front panel is blanked. I'm not sure how usual this is, but I have seen units with it available.

I intend to take the "Atten" apart before it's turned on, I wonder if someone would be willing to check over some pictures and point out any issues? I'm an Electronic Engineer, so the general stuff is not an issue, but I have a phobia of mains electricity and am not familiar with the wiring regulations etc.

First point of call for me will be to ensure that the live (brown) is the fused wire, and that earth is connected to something, then I'll make sure the earth (yellow, green, yellow/green) pin shows no resistance between the shroud of the handle and the metal of the casing, of course accounting for the paint, and fixing it where there is an issue (with my dremel).

Please correct me if I got any part of that wrong, and whether there are additional points to check.

I don't have a thermocouple or other temperature sensing device to test the accuracy, I intend to buy a better meter, but building up an entire electronics workshop of reasonable quality equipment, all at once isn't easy on the wallet.

Side note: If someone could recommend a meter with temperature capabilities at a decent price (UK) that is reviewed on EEVBlog I'd love to watch more videos and potentially add one to my Christmas list. I currently use a DMM that was ~£5 in Maplin, so in reality it's worth about £2.

Thanks.
Title: Re: DEADLY WIRING FAULT ; Atten 858D+ Hot Air Rework Station
Post by: M. András on October 29, 2013, 10:39:32 pm
upload the photos and someone definetly will help you on that. as for the thermocouple its the actual elements which limit the sensing range specially its insulation. i melted part of my original supplied fluke probe when i set my chinese thing to approx a correct temp, the meter measures up to 1000c or more i dont really remember the range. but the probe is rated for 2xx celsius
Title: Re: DEADLY WIRING FAULT ; Atten 858D+ Hot Air Rework Station
Post by: ErikTheNorwegian on October 29, 2013, 11:17:54 pm
Has anybody conntacted Atten regarding this problem, and what do they answer?  :-//
Is it copies or genuin products that have this faults?  ???
I dear not think about those who buy this product and dont know or check them about this faults
.. they may die..  :-[
Title: Re: DEADLY WIRING FAULT ; Atten 858D+ Hot Air Rework Station
Post by: Hardcorefs on October 30, 2013, 01:10:35 am
Just a tip for all the people trying to 'save a buck' by buying this crap on Ebay or other sale sites

This stuff can be bought on the Chinese high street for about 139rmb (or about 23USD).. yep thats right the retail price of this crap is less than a pizza.

The transformers are made in house, right from buying the bare copper wire…. Stretching it by 50% then running it through a vat of boat varnish, into a blower tunnel.

If you are lucky they have a Hipot ring round the wire as it moves onto the spool……

The really criminal places use steel wire that is annealed to look like copper (yep it won't solder, but if you get a big enough blob round the wire end it will do)

The PCB's are populated with components that have usually failed the IQC of some other place.

And then people wonder why they nearly get killed when they purchase this stuff………….



Title: Re: DEADLY WIRING FAULT ; Atten 858D+ Hot Air Rework Station
Post by: M. András on October 30, 2013, 07:41:43 am
no wonder why they sell it that cheap :D btw im more curious about that airpump which sits inside the unit which has an internal pump not the fantype handle, where the hell to get that pump
Title: Re: DEADLY WIRING FAULT ; Atten 858D+ Hot Air Rework Station
Post by: andtfoot on October 30, 2013, 08:25:05 am
I just had one of these delivered today; I ordered it from here (http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/271244575325). After reading this thread, I pulled the back off it before plugging it in to test.

It doesn't look too bad relatively. The IEC socket has an inbuilt fuse holder (and even comes with a spare fuse!), the live is switched, and the earth has a ring terminal that goes in the corner where the case screws together. The paint is scraped away there and there is continuity between the IEC earth pin and the chassis. The metal part of the gun thing is connected to earth, and the resistance isn't too bad (0R8).

I can take photos if anyone wants to see.
Title: Re: DEADLY WIRING FAULT ; Atten 858D+ Hot Air Rework Station
Post by: PA4TIM on October 30, 2013, 10:25:54 am
Damn, reading this I missed a lot of fun, I seem to have made the wrong choise buying a metcal/Oki. It works great, gets hot enough to unsolder and desolder everything in a flash without damage and it turns out to be save too, bummer, I have nothing to compain or hack. I should kick myself for that.   |O
Title: Re: Re: DEADLY WIRING FAULT ; Atten 858D+ Hot Air Rework Station
Post by: alias_neo on October 31, 2013, 06:46:57 pm
upload the photos and someone definetly will help you on that. as for the thermocouple its the actual elements which limit the sensing range specially its insulation. i melted part of my original supplied fluke probe when i set my chinese thing to approx a correct temp, the meter measures up to 1000c or more i dont really remember the range. but the probe is rated for 2xx celsius

Ok, got some pics, it looks pretty clean.

The pcb is Atten branded.

Few issues, live and neutral are both blue. Earth goes straight to the pcb and so the bottom half of the chassis is earthed only via the screw holding the pcb to the base.

The housing of the tranny measures about 23ohms to the earth pin and the top cover is as good as open circuit (not earthed).

The tip of the wand measures about 6ohms to earth.

I switched it on anyway after putting it back together and it works really well.

Mounted some RGB pixels with leaded solder paste and the atten set to 220 degrees.

Sent from my C6603 using Tapatalk

Title: Re: DEADLY WIRING FAULT ; Atten 858D+ Hot Air Rework Station
Post by: Greyersting on November 01, 2013, 04:39:40 am
Did OP post the link of where he bought it from?  If not, he should so that more people don't buy it from there.
Title: Re: DEADLY WIRING FAULT ; Atten 858D+ Hot Air Rework Station
Post by: alias_neo on November 01, 2013, 05:46:06 pm
Here's the photos I took, I'm not sure if Tapatalk will make them too small to be useful but the forum wouldn't accept the gargantuan photos from my Xperia Z.

(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/11/02/e3abumeh.jpg)

(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/11/02/e3yze6u7.jpg)

(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/11/02/y9evudah.jpg)

(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/11/02/ununyde8.jpg)

(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/11/02/tapunyne.jpg)

(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/11/02/zu7yga2u.jpg)

Sent from my C6603 using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Re: DEADLY WIRING FAULT ; Atten 858D+ Hot Air Rework Station
Post by: Monkeh on November 07, 2013, 04:56:14 pm
upload the photos and someone definetly will help you on that. as for the thermocouple its the actual elements which limit the sensing range specially its insulation. i melted part of my original supplied fluke probe when i set my chinese thing to approx a correct temp, the meter measures up to 1000c or more i dont really remember the range. but the probe is rated for 2xx celsius

Ok, got some pics, it looks pretty clean.

The pcb is Atten branded.

Few issues, live and neutral are both blue. Earth goes straight to the pcb and so the bottom half of the chassis is earthed only via the screw holding the pcb to the base.

The housing of the tranny measures about 23ohms to the earth pin and the top cover is as good as open circuit (not earthed).

The tip of the wand measures about 6ohms to earth.

I switched it on anyway after putting it back together and it works really well.

Mounted some RGB pixels with leaded solder paste and the atten set to 220 degrees.

Sent from my C6603 using Tapatalk

Beware of the IEC lead it came with. Fake as hell.
Title: Re: Re: DEADLY WIRING FAULT ; Atten 858D+ Hot Air Rework Station
Post by: alias_neo on November 07, 2013, 05:59:31 pm
Beware of the IEC lead it came with. Fake as hell.

Thanks for the heads up, what issues am I likely to suffer with it being fake? And should I just bin it and replace it immediately? I have spares lying round al over the place.

I used it last night for my first attempt of removing components as opposed to placing them. I tried removing a few components from an old HDD board, couldn't remove any of the TQFP with it set to 400 degrees. Managed to remove plenty of 8PDIP and SMD resistors etc. I think I had too small of a nozzle attached for the TQFP. I'll be a bit more agressive in my next attempt.

I'm still not sure what temperatures I should use. At 220 I can easily solder new components with my lead solder paste, but desoldering the board from a WD HDD wouldn't budge at 22, or 280.
Title: Re: Re: DEADLY WIRING FAULT ; Atten 858D+ Hot Air Rework Station
Post by: Monkeh on November 07, 2013, 07:49:16 pm
Beware of the IEC lead it came with. Fake as hell.

Thanks for the heads up, what issues am I likely to suffer with it being fake? And should I just bin it and replace it immediately? I have spares lying round al over the place.

Well, the one I got has a partially insulated earth pin, a fake fuse, very small CSA of the conductors, and I question the terminations. Bin it, never worth using a crap one.

Quote
I used it last night for my first attempt of removing components as opposed to placing them. I tried removing a few components from an old HDD board, couldn't remove any of the TQFP with it set to 400 degrees. Managed to remove plenty of 8PDIP and SMD resistors etc. I think I had too small of a nozzle attached for the TQFP. I'll be a bit more agressive in my next attempt.

I'm still not sure what temperatures I should use. At 220 I can easily solder new components with my lead solder paste, but desoldering the board from a WD HDD wouldn't budge at 22, or 280.

Desoldering is a right pain, especially lead-free. You can get nozzles specifically designed for various packages on eBay.
Title: Re: Re: DEADLY WIRING FAULT ; Atten 858D+ Hot Air Rework Station
Post by: andtfoot on November 07, 2013, 11:33:41 pm
I used it last night for my first attempt of removing components as opposed to placing them. I tried removing a few components from an old HDD board, couldn't remove any of the TQFP with it set to 400 degrees. Managed to remove plenty of 8PDIP and SMD resistors etc. I think I had too small of a nozzle attached for the TQFP. I'll be a bit more agressive in my next attempt.

It could also be one of those chips that have the metal pad on the underside.
Like this one:
(http://andtfoot.smugmug.com/photos/i-jWSf58r/0/L/i-jWSf58r-L.jpg)
Title: Re: Re: Re: DEADLY WIRING FAULT ; Atten 858D+ Hot Air Rework Station
Post by: alias_neo on November 08, 2013, 12:40:19 am

It could also be one of those chips that have the metal pad on the underside.
Like this one:
(http://andtfoot.smugmug.com/photos/i-jWSf58r/0/L/i-jWSf58r-L.jpg)

Ah yes, I did think of that but couldn't figure out how I would remove it.

Sadly I'm having no luck finding addition code to run the AT25F1024 I salvaged. My own code doesn't work so I can't tell if I killed it while desoldering it :-(

Sent from my C6603 using Tapatalk

Title: Re: DEADLY WIRING FAULT ; Atten 858D+ Hot Air Rework Station
Post by: toxicnos on November 13, 2013, 01:20:22 pm
Call Atten and tell them and GET A REPLACEMENT don't fix it. You don't know what else wonghonlo did wrong.
Title: Re: DEADLY WIRING FAULT ; Atten 858D+ Hot Air Rework Station
Post by: alias_neo on November 13, 2013, 02:06:51 pm
I can confirm that my station also has the fake plug with a fake fuse fitted. The fuse is so obviously fake you can see the piece of wire protruding from the end caps. Replaced it immediately with a certified one and bummed the original.

There is no point contacting atten, they're clearly counterfeit. I will contact the retailer though and make them aware.

Sent from my C6603 using Tapatalk

Title: Re: DEADLY WIRING FAULT ; Atten 858D+ Hot Air Rework Station
Post by: GA on December 20, 2013, 08:12:48 am
I have recently purchased ATTEN AT858D+ from goodluckbuy.com for $68.65 including delivery. It took around 25 days for delivery to Croatia -- it spent half of it in the Customs. Before plugging it in, I took it apart and inspected the wire connections. The case was not earthed, so I fixed that. The mounting holes for the cradle is on the left side only.

http://www.goodluckbuy.com/atten-at858d-advanced-hot-air-smd-rework-station-heater-400w.html (http://www.goodluckbuy.com/atten-at858d-advanced-hot-air-smd-rework-station-heater-400w.html)

See the tear down hires pictures at:

https://picasaweb.google.com/108118030477402493329/ATTENAT858DAdvancedHotAirSMDReworkStation (https://picasaweb.google.com/108118030477402493329/ATTENAT858DAdvancedHotAirSMDReworkStation)
Title: Re: DEADLY WIRING FAULT ; Atten 858D+ Hot Air Rework Station
Post by: zapta on December 29, 2013, 04:25:31 am
Watched this video the other day after somebody mentioned it here. Very interesting. I think I will get me one.

Today I visited a local electronic surplus store and saw this small blower.It explains the plastic filing at 9:15 in the video.

(http://i.imgur.com/xqWR1Od.jpg)
Title: Re: DEADLY WIRING FAULT ; Atten 858D+ Hot Air Rework Station
Post by: temporaryid on January 20, 2014, 02:06:40 pm
BBQ sauce with lost lambs.

Drunked wannabees.

Nice circus show.

:-DD
Title: Re: DEADLY WIRING FAULT ; Atten 858D+ Hot Air Rework Station
Post by: Monkeh on January 20, 2014, 02:12:40 pm
BBQ sauce with lost lambs.

Drunked wannabees.

Nice circus show.

:-DD

 ???
Title: Re: DEADLY WIRING FAULT ; Atten 858D+ Hot Air Rework Station
Post by: PICmonster on January 20, 2014, 02:27:46 pm


I just received an Atten 858D+ hot air rework station direct from China.  When I plugged it in and switched on it was completely dead - no display or any activity.  On taking the front panel off I found that the power input socket had been mis-wired and mains active was tied directly to the exposed metallic parts of the heat gun.

This is a potential killer - no pun intended.  Please if you have purchased but not received one of these items check the mains wiring before switching on.  Even if you have one that appears to be functioning ok it would be best to have a look whether it has more insidious faults such as neutral to earth or active-neutral transposed.


It was on the news that some time back a poor kid got killed because he bought what he thought was a replacement charger for is game machine from China :rant:, this annoys me greatly that our authorities are not doing much about this, only when someone dies might it become a news item like the poor kid did |O. Why are our authorities not taking effective action against these lethal imports, why are sanctions not brought up on those whom peddle these dangerous goods. |O

For what it's worth the serial number of my unit is 1042111302610.

Title: Re: DEADLY WIRING FAULT ; Atten 858D+ Hot Air Rework Station
Post by: hacker on January 25, 2014, 09:28:10 pm
I bought an new wep 858D off ebay, $49.00/Wfree shipping :bullshit: and it has wiring problems also, I still need to remove the PCB and clean all the solder balls off the board, but it is safe to use now. Now how many lives has dave saved? Thank you Dave!
Title: Re: DEADLY WIRING FAULT ; Atten 858D+ Pictures
Post by: LektroiD on March 06, 2014, 02:05:35 am
Attached are pictures illustrating the existence of the fault.  Later today I will post teardown pictures that show why the fault occurred.

Last night I also notified the Ebay seller in China and to his credit received a prompt reply indicating his great concern and that he would notifiy the manufacturer and his customers of the problem.

How do we see the attachments?

I just bought one of these and I want to know what I'm looking out for before powering up...
Title: Re: DEADLY WIRING FAULT ; Atten 858D+ Hot Air Rework Station
Post by: bench2013 on April 04, 2014, 06:50:20 am
Hi,

I brought one of this last week and it arrive two days ago, YIHUA-858D. I wish I read this before I turn it on. Anyway here is my 2 cent. I have only open it once and not yet fix any thing. I turn the unit on and done a few SMD de-soldering, just to prove it works; couple of passive component and transistor, a few SOIC and a TQFP. It work reasonable well and I am still here to tell the tale. After reading this forum, I was thinking ok, it is not the greatest of all build, but with some fixes, it does a reasonable job. So I am starting a list of things to check, if you brought one of these, who knows it might save a few lives. Here is the list so far, feel free to added to:

Thing to check if you brought ATTEN 858D and it clone:

1) Earthing - to the case, heat gun etc. or are they earth at all.
2) Live/active wiring - is live wiring is correct, not to the case at least and not the wrong way round
3) Fuse on live not on return
4) Fuse is real not fake
5) Power switch on live not return
6) Exposed live wiring, eg. in heat gun, mains etc.

Optional that may improve reliability:

1) Soldering - dry joint, blob of solder etc.
2) Exposed contacts - DC and Main separation

Please add as you feel like.

Bench

Title: Re: DEADLY WIRING FAULT ; Atten 858D+ Hot Air Rework Station
Post by: VK3DRB on April 04, 2014, 12:27:11 pm
I bet it has no RCM or C-tick mark and therefore is illegal in Australia anyway. Dangerous mains powered Chinese eBay electrical goods are often being smuggled into Australia, and if you got electrocuted, there would be no sympathy from the Australian government or from the Chinese who assembled it.

People forget that the so-called People's Republic of China is still a third world communist country. These comrades have only a primitive concept of quality or safety compared to modern first world countries.  I have seen with my own eyes some of the very dangerous and fraudulent manufacturing practices they have.

So what do you expect.

I once saw a hair drier smuggled into Australia where the active mains wire had fractured off the mains switch and was within 1mm of the metal case, which was not earthed. Great for the bathroom when you are wet and bare foot. Bloody dangerous, but I lay the blame on the dude who imported it.

All you can do is rebuild it in an attempt to make it safe. Or throw it out, save your pennies and buy a reputable soldering iron that will give you years of reliable service. Plus you might get the satisfaction that the product was not built by kids in a back alley sweatshop.









Title: Re: DEADLY WIRING FAULT ; Atten 858D+ Hot Air Rework Station
Post by: loadnstuff on April 08, 2014, 10:29:39 pm
Hi Guys n Gals can u help me out with my 898D,

its a 'best' 898D brand, both the iron and the heat blower isnt working, the digital display lights with a error code S-E, what component /s could be faulty?
i know basic electrical stuff and esp safety, I can also solder and use a multimeter.

thx

UPDATE :  the blower is working fine. 
the code is 5-E. google search brought up heating element in blower needs replaced, possibly be the element in iron? how do i check the element? check ohms if so what should it be?
Title: Re: DEADLY WIRING FAULT ; Atten 858D+ Hot Air Rework Station
Post by: romantronixlab on April 27, 2014, 02:33:55 pm
Finally last night I got my WEP858  ;D . Wait a minute WEP have an up arrow in the P  :-//
But plug it use it and all OK but something back in my mind told to tear it to see the wiring.  :wtf: As writen here by some members the main wiring is all misdirected  :palm: I could not believe this ( but I should have) I read it all here. Anyways I took pictures and I will fix this up ASAP so this will be my Sunday project in between all other Projects (repairs) I need to make.

One more is I don't like that I cannot take out the main wire and cannot unplug the blower/heater wand.  :rant: Some mods ahead.  :-+
Title: Re: DEADLY WIRING FAULT ; Atten 858D+ Hot Air Rework Station
Post by: SirNick on May 05, 2014, 10:13:16 am
For what it's worth... SparkFun has their own inexpensive (probably rebadged) hot air rework station:

http://www.sparkfun.com/products/10706 (http://www.sparkfun.com/products/10706)

At $99 US, it's not quite as cheap, but it's probably not lethal... so it has that going for it.   ;D  If the ~$30 difference isn't a deal-breaker it could be worth a look.

I realize all the mains wiring stuff can be fixed in the cheapo ones, but man... if these guys can't figure out how to ground a chassis, I'm not confident the rest of the box is any bargain either.  Even if it is otherwise sound, I can't quite reconcile the idea of condemning reckless workmanship on one hand, and rewarding them with sales on the other.  To each their own there of course, I guess I've just found my line in the sand.  :)
Title: Re: DEADLY WIRING FAULT ; Atten 858D+ Hot Air Rework Station
Post by: electrolux on May 06, 2014, 08:49:24 am
I reckon you bought it from ali express
Title: Re: DEADLY WIRING FAULT ; Atten 858D+ Hot Air Rework Station
Post by: Tasman on September 06, 2014, 09:08:35 am
I noticed that the original pictures I posted have been deleted  probably because of too large files.  I have now added them to the first post in the topic with some explanation.
Title: Re: DEADLY WIRING FAULT ; Atten 858D+ Hot Air Rework Station
Post by: kloetpatra on September 16, 2014, 04:43:36 pm
I've bought a copy product named "YOUYUE 858D+" Looks exactly like the Atten but with an even more dangerous male pin connector for the hand piece on station. That means there is live wire exposed when the hand piece is disconnected. Also the live wire from the back is touching the case at the position of mounting holes for the hand piece holder. In special cases this could lead to a short when screws are tighntened at this side.

By the way I want to inform that there is a guy who did some mods including custom firmware to:

can be found here:
http://blog.spitzenpfeil.org/wordpress/projects/youyue-858d-hotair-station-modifications/ (http://blog.spitzenpfeil.org/wordpress/projects/youyue-858d-hotair-station-modifications/)

That could be applied to all *858D devices.
For me I will probably add thermocouple detection and a relay to disconnect live terminals when hand piece is not connected.
Title: Re: DEADLY WIRING FAULT ; Atten 858D+ Hot Air Rework Station
Post by: madworm on September 21, 2014, 02:46:55 pm
We know. And that guy has posted about it on here as well 8)

Make sure to post about your additions as well. Worth a new thread.
Title: Re: DEADLY WIRING FAULT ; Atten 858D+ Hot Air Rework Station
Post by: engywook on October 10, 2014, 05:57:09 am
Hello,

I received an ATTEN 858D+, bought on ebay from Germany.  I plugged it, it heated, but it was not blowing. I opened the gun and measured the voltage at the fan pads, it varies from 11V to 28V when turning the button (looks normal to me). I de-soldered the fan and powered it directly from a 3S lipo battery fully charged (14.4V), but it is not spinning. I tried to reverse the polarity, without success. I can spin the fan manually, it is not blocked at all. It must be the motor, but I can't reach it.

I have already contacted the reseller to mention the defect object, but if any of you has a link to buy a spare fan, I would have a backup plan.

Thanks
Title: Re: DEADLY WIRING FAULT ; Atten 858D+ Hot Air Rework Station
Post by: PA4TIM on October 10, 2014, 06:10:01 am
I really can not understand so many people here are still buying this crappy lethal junk.  |O |O
Title: Re: DEADLY WIRING FAULT ; Atten 858D+ Hot Air Rework Station
Post by: n45048 on October 10, 2014, 06:32:55 am
I have a quick question that is slightly off-topic.

My parents home has an RCD built into one of the power points (it has the test/reset buttons directly on the wall socket). Considering that RCDs have been mandatory in Australia since the very early 1990's, what's the point of having one on a single power outlet? (It does share the same circuit as the kitchen outlets and on rare occasions, it has been known to trip when dodgy toasters are plugged in, but everything on the distribution board remains on).
Title: Re: DEADLY WIRING FAULT ; Atten 858D+ Hot Air Rework Station
Post by: TorqueRanger on October 19, 2014, 11:39:10 pm
So are these worth buying or is there a same price alternative???
Or am I better off finding a Yihua Setup and rebuilding and  modding it ???
Title: Re: DEADLY WIRING FAULT ; Atten 858D+ Hot Air Rework Station
Post by: eneuro on October 20, 2014, 07:22:33 am
One good idea I have heard is to make a habit of first touching all unknown electrical equipment with the BACK of your hand, so you don't grab hold of it if it is live.
Rather bad habit :palm:
There is something like electric probe testers and no way using ones hand to probe HV circuits  ???

Title: Re: DEADLY WIRING FAULT ; Atten 858D+ Hot Air Rework Station
Post by: Monkeh on October 22, 2014, 03:15:47 am
I really can not understand so many people here are still buying this crappy lethal junk.  |O |O

It's not lethal if you know what you're doing.

Please suggest an affordable, widely available alternative.
Title: Re: DEADLY WIRING FAULT ; Atten 858D+ Hot Air Rework Station
Post by: zapta on October 22, 2014, 03:24:00 am
I really can not understand so many people here are still buying this crappy lethal junk.  |O |O

Because they work well, inexpensive and there is not documented case yet of an actual death.

(I returned mine and got a used Hakko from ebay. Excellent quality inside and out).
Title: Re: DEADLY WIRING FAULT ; Atten 858D+ Hot Air Rework Station
Post by: Pack34 on October 22, 2014, 10:14:17 am
I really can not understand so many people here are still buying this crappy lethal junk.  |O |O

It's not lethal if you know what you're doing.

Please suggest an affordable, widely available alternative.

https://www.sparkfun.com/products/10706 (https://www.sparkfun.com/products/10706)
Title: Re: DEADLY WIRING FAULT ; Atten 858D+ Hot Air Rework Station
Post by: Monkeh on October 22, 2014, 10:31:41 am
I really can not understand so many people here are still buying this crappy lethal junk.  |O |O

It's not lethal if you know what you're doing.

Please suggest an affordable, widely available alternative.

https://www.sparkfun.com/products/10706 (https://www.sparkfun.com/products/10706)

Twice the price, 110V, US-based seller. Ticks no boxes.
Title: Re: DEADLY WIRING FAULT ; Atten 858D+ Hot Air Rework Station
Post by: Halford on October 30, 2014, 09:04:22 pm
well.... I got mine today, and found this while waiting the delivery.

I'm not expert and I'ld like to know if this is a good sign before opening the box.

I tested for continuity and found that only the ground plug pin has continuity when touching the gun tip or the metal plate under the gun holder.... does it count as a valid test for correct wiring?

thanks

Hal.
Title: Re: DEADLY WIRING FAULT ; Atten 858D+ Hot Air Rework Station
Post by: Yago on October 30, 2014, 11:28:26 pm
Not sure exactly what you mean.

I got one several months ago, but due to the year from hell only opened/inspect/test it last night.
In mine, the earth is not connected to the metal casing, there is an attempt to connect but paint and general shittyness reders it useless and in need of replacement. I will put in lead for the chassis and ring terminal to some freshly stripped paint.

The earth does connect to the metal barrel at the end of the handpiece, but this is of a very thin nature.
The earth in the handpiece is not so clear, it is connected but very thin. Once way would be to replace the entire cable from base to handpice with a multicore that is suitably constructed.
Title: Re: DEADLY WIRING FAULT ; Atten 858D+ Hot Air Rework Station
Post by: Hardcorefs on October 31, 2014, 02:46:21 am
well.... I got mine today, and found this while waiting the delivery.

I'm not expert and I'ld like to know if this is a good sign before opening the box.

I tested for continuity and found that only the ground plug pin has continuity when touching the gun tip or the metal plate under the gun holder.... does it count as a valid test for correct wiring?

thanks

Hal.

Only if you can pass 12-25A through it….. ( assuming you are in the UK)
The British Standards have all sorts of tests built in to catch this type of thing, but again……… if you buy from China or those shitty drug induced trolls selling on EBAY ,then you get everything you deserve.
A 100% seller rating  could mean 100% of the customers are dead and did  not get to complain.

Title: Re: DEADLY WIRING FAULT ; Atten 858D+ Hot Air Rework Station
Post by: Ether on November 29, 2014, 01:49:45 pm
Just received mine.

After I powered it on, it tripped the circuit breaker in my house after a few seconds. The heating element was red hot. I unplugged it and found a dead short between live and neutral on the plug.  :wtf:

Tore it down and realized that the barrel was also connected to the mains active.  :(

QC is atrocious on these things and I recommend that anybody who buys these things test them before powering them on.
Title: Re: DEADLY WIRING FAULT ; Atten 858D+ Hot Air Rework Station
Post by: kff on January 09, 2015, 06:44:39 am
I just bought the cheapest Youyue 858D+ on ebay ($41 shipped) and sure enough both the fuse and switch were on the neutral wire. I was about to start rewiring the unit when I realized that the detachable AC cable itself (110V, US version) was miswired -- hot male pin was connected to the neutral female one on the other side of the cable and vice versa. With another AC cable that I had lying around, the wiring is now correct.
Title: Re: DEADLY WIRING FAULT ; Atten 858D+ Hot Air Rework Station
Post by: electr_peter on February 25, 2015, 07:39:45 pm
Is there any difference between Atten 858D+/Wep 858D/Youyue 858D/Pro'sKit SS969B? These models seem to be identical except for front panel sticker. Pro'sKit unit might be slightly better.

UPDATE: Pro'sKit SS969B unit is very nice inside - good quality PCB with SMD components, all wire connections have sockets and are glued down with red glue, mains wiring is done properly - no real issues quality wise. And it works.
Title: Re: DEADLY WIRING FAULT ; Atten 858D+ Hot Air Rework Station
Post by: IanJ on February 25, 2015, 09:01:03 pm
Mine was intermittetn when I got it........opened it up and the mains wiring was threadbare inside.

Cheap junk right enough........but does work pretty well.

Ian.
Title: Re: DEADLY WIRING FAULT ; Atten 858D+ Hot Air Rework Station
Post by: toyman on April 10, 2015, 03:14:09 am
Bought a "WEP 858D" on ebay, although the unit that I got has no branding - just the 858d part.   Thanks to this thread I tool a look inside, and found that that fuse is on the neutral wire.  That seems to be the worst of it, so it looks like I got a "good" unit compared to what others have encountered.
Title: Re: DEADLY WIRING FAULT ; Atten 858D+ Hot Air Rework Station
Post by: electrolux on July 09, 2015, 03:18:18 pm
My brother bought one, it was fine. Some dodgy Chinese worker I expect.
Title: Re: DEADLY WIRING FAULT ; Atten 858D+ Hot Air Rework Station
Post by: alexanderbrevig on September 03, 2015, 12:54:04 pm
Mine came with one of the connectors in the breeze (with no connection). It had the wrong (way too large) spade connector so I changed that, and soldered it to place before pulling the shrink tube over it. THOU SHALL NOT COME OFF
Title: Re: DEADLY WIRING FAULT ; Atten 858D+ Hot Air Rework Station
Post by: AF6LJ on September 03, 2015, 02:08:11 pm
It is good to know what NOT to buy.
Scary  :scared:
Title: Re: DEADLY WIRING FAULT ; Atten 858D+ Hot Air Rework Station
Post by: nanofrog on September 03, 2015, 06:51:46 pm
It is good to know what NOT to buy.
Scary  :scared:
FWIW, I have a Quick 861DW (http://www.quick-usa.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=60&product_id=94) hot air station that's really well made, and is similarly featured to the Hakko FR-810 at a fraction of the cost ($235.71 here (http://www.gotopac.com/quick-soldering-quick861dw.html)).

Click here (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/buysellwanted/ebay-steinel-heat-gun-(a-k-a-hot-air-gun)/msg426267/#msg426267) for photos of the innards (source thread).  ;)

The 957 or 957D are closer to the 858 regarding the size of enclosure, but it's pump is internal, not in the handle (pricing (http://www.gotopac.com/products/solder-rework/solder-rework-systems.html?manufacturer=2862)).
Title: Re: DEADLY WIRING FAULT ; Atten 858D+ Hot Air Rework Station
Post by: AF6LJ on September 03, 2015, 08:28:41 pm
It is good to know what NOT to buy.
Scary  :scared:
FWIW, I have a Quick 861DW (http://www.quick-usa.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=60&product_id=94) hot air station that's really well made, and is similarly featured to the Hakko FR-810 at a fraction of the cost ($235.71 here (http://www.gotopac.com/quick-soldering-quick861dw.html)).

Click here (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/buysellwanted/ebay-steinel-heat-gun-(a-k-a-hot-air-gun)/msg426267/#msg426267) for photos of the innards (source thread).  ;)

The 957 or 957D are closer to the 858 regarding the size of enclosure, but it's pump is internal, not in the handle (pricing (http://www.gotopac.com/products/solder-rework/solder-rework-systems.html?manufacturer=2862)).
Looks really good.
Some of this stuff that comes out of China scares the crap out of me.
Title: Re: DEADLY WIRING FAULT ; Atten 858D+ Hot Air Rework Station
Post by: DEHiCKA on September 18, 2015, 08:11:58 pm
Looks like chepoo $18 version that is selling all over china does not have this stupid interconnect board waiting to kill you. HV wires go stright to the heater:
Title: Re: DEADLY WIRING FAULT ; Atten 858D+ Hot Air Rework Station
Post by: Monkeh on September 18, 2015, 08:39:03 pm
If you think that little PCB is the biggest problem these units have..
Title: Re: DEADLY WIRING FAULT ; Atten 858D+ Hot Air Rework Station
Post by: DEHiCKA on September 19, 2015, 11:04:31 pm
I did not say it's the biggest, but it's nice to be sure mains won't short to the ground in your hand. 
Guns for this station sell in china for $6, and I plan to build double PID controlled station myself.
Title: Re: DEADLY WIRING FAULT ; Atten 858D+ Hot Air Rework Station
Post by: saturation on September 20, 2015, 12:56:10 pm
Its a fixed temperature version, a simple 'hair dryer'.

Looks like chepoo $18 version that is selling all over china does not have this stupid interconnect board waiting to kill you. HV wires go stright to the heater:
Title: Re: DEADLY WIRING FAULT ; Atten 858D+ Hot Air Rework Station
Post by: AF6LJ on September 20, 2015, 04:10:26 pm
Some of this crap that is for sale; scares the living crap out of me.
Title: Re: DEADLY WIRING FAULT ; Atten 858D+ Hot Air Rework Station
Post by: weilrennwagen on November 07, 2015, 05:53:07 am
I received my "WEP 858D" today from eBay. Fully expecting it to be ghetto wired. But for $40... with a guarantee. Can you go wrong?

First thing I did was turn it on to test it. The digital display has multiple burned out/dead segments.

I opened it up. The power input cable has three wires - brown, blue, and green. Brown is supposed to be hot, and blue is supposed to be neutral, but when I continuity tested them back to the plug, the blue wire is hot and the brown wire is neutral! Still, the fuse is on the neutral line.

The ground wire from the handheld unit was grounded to the circuit board via a 24awg wire, but the board isn't grounded to anything. So a few things are wrong so far lol. Haven't taken the handheld unit apart.
Title: Re: DEADLY WIRING FAULT ; Atten 858D+ Hot Air Rework Station
Post by: cracklincrotch on November 13, 2015, 03:25:09 pm
Picked up a Sigma R700 hot air rework station yesterday, straight from Amazon.  Came with three tips and a spare heater element, that I wasn't expecting.

Looks just like the rest of the 858 stations.  So, having found this thread the first thing I did before opening it up for further checks was grab the ohm meter and see if I was going to wake myself up by touching the wrong spots later.  Everything was good so far.  Powered it up and everything appeared to me to be working as expected.

I shut it down and cracked it open.  I found the fuse on the neutral side of the 120V and the board isn't grounded.  Nice.  But, for $65CAD it's a whole lot cheaper than that Hakko that my heart wanted.  But the wallet liked the idea of this one much more LOL.  I changed the wiring around and fired it up to re-shrink the connections I'd modified.  Put it all back together and it's all good now.

So long as you know what this thing is for, and you know about these are the potential issues going in to the purchase, you already know how to fix it.  It's a pretty quick fix. 
Title: Re: DEADLY WIRING FAULT ; Atten 858D+ Hot Air Rework Station
Post by: crispy_tofu on November 14, 2015, 04:55:50 am
I received my "WEP 858D" today from eBay. Fully expecting it to be ghetto wired. But for $40... with a guarantee. Can you go wrong?

First thing I did was turn it on to test it. The digital display has multiple burned out/dead segments.

Have you asked for a return/refund? That's quite bad, even for the price...  |O
Title: Re: DEADLY WIRING FAULT ; Atten 858D+ Hot Air Rework Station
Post by: pjohnson on March 25, 2016, 03:27:04 am
I don't know why people continue to bash Made in China stuff.  Just look around you, almost everything's made in China these days.  Even my $1500 Apple MacBook Pro is assembled in China, and I've had absolutely no problems with it.   You pay for what you get regardless of where an item's made.  Someone mentioned preferring to have a German-made Weller WHA900.  Well, I would too.  Except the WHA900 costs $650 vs. $70 for this thing.  I'm sure if the China version sold for a few hundred dollars instead of $70, it would be higher quality.

I'm thankful the original poster of this thread alerted me to this potential problem.  I'm still going to buy this unit because I can't afford the much more expensive alternatives.  However, I don't intend to turn the unit on without first checking the wiring.
Title: Re: DEADLY WIRING FAULT ; Atten 858D+ Hot Air Rework Station
Post by: vze1lryy on March 25, 2016, 03:40:50 am
The Hakko FR-801 with all the nozzles cost $650 when I bought it, but it never tried to kill me, so I'm fine with it.

I always figured, I am using this tool to make money. Might as well buy something decent.

At Avatar Studios they had this cheap piece of shit generic desoldering tool. Everyone ripped small pads on switches for the SSL J9000 using that POS. Ricky would show up with a Hakko 808 and the switches just came off... it actually sucked up the solder. And left the pad on the board.

His thing was almost $300 vs. the cheap POS on the table, but he did in 45 minutes what took me eight hours, and no ripped pads. From then on, I was totally ok with spending more on soldering equipment, because 45 minutes with $650 tool beats 8 hours with the POS.

I tried an 858D once to remove a 28 pin heatsinked QFN from a ten layer PCB. Five minutes in, it didn't come off. I tossed it in the ewaste bin. I can now feel better about that decision after reading that Atten is now trying to kill people with these things. :)
Title: Re: DEADLY WIRING FAULT ; Atten 858D+ Hot Air Rework Station
Post by: nanofrog on March 25, 2016, 04:02:29 pm
I don't know why people continue to bash Made in China stuff.  Just look around you, almost everything's made in China these days.  Even my $1500 Apple MacBook Pro is assembled in China, and I've had absolutely no problems with it.   You pay for what you get regardless of where an item's made.  Someone mentioned preferring to have a German-made Weller WHA900.  Well, I would too.  Except the WHA900 costs $650 vs. $70 for this thing.  I'm sure if the China version sold for a few hundred dollars instead of $70, it would be higher quality.
It's certainly true that most anything electronic is made in China. But depending on the brand, it may have been designed elsewhere, and only manufactured in China with a proper QC system in place to catch any defective units prior to them ending up in customers hands. For products that are fully originated in China (design to packaging), there tends to be a lot more compromises to squeeze out every cent possible. So corners that shouldn't be cut happen anyway, which is why we see things such as poor performance, bad user interfaces, dangerous electrical faults, and a much higher defect rate.

This isn't to say a Chinese company can't do a far better job, but as you suspect, it increases the price tag.

Personally, frequency of use played a huge role in my decision making process. As I use my irons most of all, I ended up buying a Weller setup (WD1 + WSP80 iron + WMP iron + WDH20 stand + WDH20T switched stand). It was expensive, but the irons work well and the handles don't get hot, even after hours of use. The ergonomics are also important for something frequently used, and the Weller holds it's own here as well (as do other top tier soldering equipment manufacturers). It also offered cheap tips (plated copper), which was important to me as most cartridge tips were selling for ~$30 per at the time (FX-951 wasn't out yet).

Since I don't use hot air as frequently and I had no intention of buying a Hakko FR-810 or better (no way I was paying $700+), I went with a Quick 861DW (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/reviews/all-in-one-solderdesolderair-station-bk-6000-vs-aoyue-int2703a/msg610658/#msg610658) (paid ~$225 shipped; they go for $235 now). It's a Chinese brand, but it's built a lot better than any other Chinese brand I've ever seen internally (in person or photos). But unlike most of it's home-grown competition, the wiring is safe, the UI is actually very nice (intuitive), has a decent feature set, and it's performance is what I expect from a 1kW station. FWIW, there are those that use it professionally and haven't had any issues @ 40+ hrs./wk. usage (861DS = EU version, 861DA = UK version). It even uses quick-change nozzles (friction fit, no screw clamp to mess with).

For a hot air preheater, I went cheap and bought a Tenma 21-10135 (http://www.mcmelectronics.com/product/21-10135) from MCM Electronics. FWIW, Tenma is a brand name owned by Farnell, who also owns MCM and Newark/Element14 (as well as CPC in the UK and all of the Farnell sites). And as expected, I got what I paid for; every corner they could cut, was. Amazingly, the wiring was correct. Internally however, it's a total rat's nest inside, and the heating element assy. isn't even square (tubing is welded together, and there's nothing close to a right angle where required). It leaned so bad out of the box, I had to stack 3 washers to shim one side to get it even close to straight. The tilt can't be fixed, but my shimming at least got it to where it's useable. But as it's rarely used, it's sufficient for my purposes.

Please note, I use my equipment as a hobbyist, not a professional. If that ever changes, some of it will be replaced with gear that can handle that kind of duty (namely the preheater, as the 861DW is capable of professional use IME). For desoldering, I just do it manually with good quality supplies.
Title: Re: DEADLY WIRING FAULT ; Atten 858D+ Hot Air Rework Station
Post by: vze1lryy on March 28, 2016, 02:07:42 am
There's a lot of good stuff made in China. It drives me nuts a little when people refer to EVERYTHING there as "cheap rubbish."

It's like analog vs. digital in audio. That used to drive me batshit insane.

Let's compare a $100,000 console plugged into a $150,000 tape machine using $50,000 of outboard gear

to a $800 presonus using pirated cracked plugins...

and then conclude that omg, ANALOG IS BETTER!!!!!1111


Or a 3rd gen ipod powering 16 ohm headphones to a $2000 turntable.

Used to drive me nuts.
Title: Re: DEADLY WIRING FAULT ; Atten 858D+ Hot Air Rework Station
Post by: ulix on June 01, 2016, 09:29:21 pm
Sorry for digging it up,
but I looking into this and was just wondering, which MCU does the WEP 858D+ have?
Which Model has the Atmel Chips to mod?
thanks
Title: Re: DEADLY WIRING FAULT ; Atten 858D+ Hot Air Rework Station
Post by: xnorbi on August 08, 2016, 06:36:59 am
Sorry for digging it up,
but I looking into this and was just wondering, which MCU does the WEP 858D+ have?
Which Model has the Atmel Chips to mod?
thanks

I just asked this from seller on ebay ( http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/220V-WEP858D-SMD-SMT-SOLDERING-REWORK-STATION-welder-HOT-AIR-858D-Sale-/151993774809?hash=item236388f2d9:g:DbQAAOSwGotWjcCH (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/220V-WEP858D-SMD-SMT-SOLDERING-REWORK-STATION-welder-HOT-AIR-858D-Sale-/151993774809?hash=item236388f2d9:g:DbQAAOSwGotWjcCH) )

He told me:
"Dear customer,
Thank you so much for your interest on our prosuct!
The picture is attached.
And the type of the processor is samsung.
Have a nice day!
"

Title: Re: DEADLY WIRING FAULT ; Atten 858D+ Hot Air Rework Station
Post by: vidi on August 08, 2016, 05:39:27 pm

I just asked this from seller on ebay ( http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/220V-WEP858D-SMD-SMT-SOLDERING-REWORK-STATION-welder-HOT-AIR-858D-Sale-/151993774809?hash=item236388f2d9:g:DbQAAOSwGotWjcCH (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/220V-WEP858D-SMD-SMT-SOLDERING-REWORK-STATION-welder-HOT-AIR-858D-Sale-/151993774809?hash=item236388f2d9:g:DbQAAOSwGotWjcCH) )

He told me:
"Dear customer,
Thank you so much for your interest on our prosuct!
The picture is attached.
And the type of the processor is samsung.
Have a nice day!
"

Hi, I bought one (W.E.P 858D+) last week from ebay and it didn't worked. So, this is how it looks inside:

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0Bwd4w5PTVA3yRGJRWnN4eUV0OTQ (https://drive.google.com/open?id=0Bwd4w5PTVA3yRGJRWnN4eUV0OTQ)
The board is not connected to protective wire, the clamp should be on the other side of board. But then you won't have connection with front pannel.

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0Bwd4w5PTVA3yZzQyb3RRX3RSd28 (https://drive.google.com/open?id=0Bwd4w5PTVA3yZzQyb3RRX3RSd28)
Cracked capacitor leg, not a big deal

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0Bwd4w5PTVA3yNkRNbkh3SVBuZk0 (https://drive.google.com/open?id=0Bwd4w5PTVA3yNkRNbkh3SVBuZk0)
Collector shorted with base, blows the LED of MOC3041 that controls heating

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0Bwd4w5PTVA3yYWhSQS1KZXZKSFE (https://drive.google.com/open?id=0Bwd4w5PTVA3yYWhSQS1KZXZKSFE)
Damaged isolation of wire that power heating. 230V, the resistance is 76R. The wires (white, gray) are really thin, diameter is cca 1.2mm including isolation. 

Ouu .. I forgot to mention: the main switch connects neutral. Phase is always present on the board when station is plugged. 
Title: Re: DEADLY WIRING FAULT ; Atten 858D+ Hot Air Rework Station
Post by: tym3k on August 27, 2016, 12:46:33 pm
Hi everyone!

I see that the 858d+ model is of bad quality and dangerous, but how about the 998D? (Here is the link: http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Fast-Local-Shipping-2015-New-220V-998D-Hot-Air-Rework-Soldering-Iron-Station-Welder-Hot-Air/32413294186.html (http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Fast-Local-Shipping-2015-New-220V-998D-Hot-Air-Rework-Soldering-Iron-Station-Welder-Hot-Air/32413294186.html)) Has anyone used it?

Thanks in advance.
Title: Re: DEADLY WIRING FAULT ; Atten 858D+ Hot Air Rework Station
Post by: jonovid on November 12, 2016, 11:28:42 am
Hot Air Rework Stations direct from China should be as parts only. same goes  for most things aliexpress, with an AC wall plug.
why do people think its the same as made to order complying to the rules brand name products?
if you buy a car sold as parts only from japan your motor mechanic or motor trader. same here parts only.
Title: Re: DEADLY WIRING FAULT ; Atten 858D+ Hot Air Rework Station
Post by: saturation on November 12, 2016, 01:01:32 pm
The simplest thing to try for any hot air reworkstation is a calibration procedure, to determine how the output setting is set and if its correct.  Now, how the hot air output from the nozzle translates to heating any item is another story as it depends on the mass needed to heat, if the item has been preheated and ambient temperature of the lab.

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/deadly-wiring-fault-atten-858d-hot-air-rework-station/msg54588/#msg54588 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/deadly-wiring-fault-atten-858d-hot-air-rework-station/msg54588/#msg54588)

Enjoy.


comparatively, i did not take 1-2 minutes to melt solder, i think the heating speed feels about the same as what i saw before. then i got curious about the temperature, and here is what i discovered the wide margin of error between temp setting and actual output. when i first tried at a dial of 200, flow = minimum, the temperature imparted to the PCB after about 30s is way way way way way over 210C. in fact, to hit 210C in about 30s, all i need to dial in is about 165 (see pic).

with a wallwatt device, at 165 setting. the station draws periodic cycles of 100-260w of power draw. i hope the above temperature points are helpful hints to users.

Title: Re: DEADLY WIRING FAULT ; Atten 858D+ Hot Air Rework Station
Post by: jonovid on November 13, 2016, 12:12:06 pm
Quote
The simplest thing to try for any hot air reworkstation is a calibration procedure,
to determine how the output setting is set and if its correct.  Now, how the hot air output from the nozzle translates to heating any item is another story as it depends on the mass needed to heat,  if the item has been preheated and ambient temperature of the lab.
and Quote from: 3roomlab on Yesterday at 08:54:42 PM
Quote
comparatively, i did not take 1-2 minutes to melt solder, i think the heating speed feels about the same as what i saw before. then i got curious about the temperature, and here is what i discovered the wide margin of error between temp setting and actual output. when i first tried at a dial of 200, flow = minimum, the temperature imparted to the PCB after about 30s is way way way way way over 210C. in fact, to hit 210C in about 30s, all i need to dial in is about 165 (see pic).

with a wallwatt device, at 165 setting. the station draws periodic cycles of 100-260w of power draw. i hope the above temperature points are helpful hints to users.

something for a diy weekender all you need is the chinese head unit like this one.  the rest of the unit can be made in the lab . ie arduino temp and fun control in a case. the had part is calibration of the temperature for accuracy. standby run commands .
looking at the data shows the chinese 220V ceramic heating element can push a top of 500c so that 24v fan must keep the air flow high as needed.so maybe fun with arduino programming the heating map. only time will tell if this will work. note- how light the wires are. needs better cable & more air holes in the handle grip.  also note- the reed switch and magnet used as  head unit sits in a cradle mounted on the side of the case . the magnet in the cradle trips the reed switch B inside the head unit case. for standby or low setting. I will post when i start work on it. find a 700w step down transformer & re-wire the output 40V? need to test it . then map out a schematic, then make art work of the case,  and all the parts inside it. by mid 2017 I hope.

Title: Re: DEADLY WIRING FAULT ; Atten 858D+ Hot Air Rework Station
Post by: netdudeuk on January 20, 2017, 10:17:28 pm
Is there any way that these (potentially wrongly wired) units could damage the 240v UK mains socket ring cabling ?  I'd like to get one myself but would like to know that it couldn't damage any existing equipment.

Thanks
Title: Re: DEADLY WIRING FAULT ; Atten 858D+ Hot Air Rework Station
Post by: Back2Volts on January 22, 2017, 03:19:11 am
I purchased one of the WEP units.   Inspection showed the fuse on the neutral and a couple of questionable solder joints on the ground wiring.   I have rewired the fuse, re-soldered, scrapped  paint here and there, improved the case grounding, and tided up the wiring mess.  After all the "tuning" it seems to be in good working condition and I fell better safety wise.  I will be using it one of these days. 

EDIT:  I am ordering a new power switch from Mouser to replace the existing one.   
     
Title: Re: DEADLY WIRING FAULT ; Atten 858D+ Hot Air Rework Station
Post by: Housedad on March 19, 2017, 12:07:58 am
I just got a WEP unit in the mail today.  Same situation.  Before I even plugged it in  I rewired the fuse, removed small solder blobs, separated a solder bridge, scraped paint, checked grounds.  All good now.   Works like a charm.
Title: Re: DEADLY WIRING FAULT ; Atten 858D+ Hot Air Rework Station
Post by: Knifa on April 25, 2017, 09:13:40 pm
Looks like RS Components are selling a similar looking unit under their own brand. It is more expensive, with slightly beefed up looking casing and a nicer connector.

http://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/soldering-stations/1244133/ (http://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/soldering-stations/1244133/)

What are the chances it's actually safe to use?
Title: Re: DEADLY WIRING FAULT ; Atten 858D+ Hot Air Rework Station
Post by: floobydust on April 28, 2017, 02:02:12 am
How can RS resell this when it has no safety approvals? There are laws, in USA/Canada/UK that you can't sell products (vs import) without proper regulatory certs.
I believe RS would be liable if you got electrocuted or it burned your house down.

The 858D+ is not safe really - you'll find 220V hazardous live mains at the pins of the connector all the time, the on/off switch does not disconnect line (only opens neutral), the PCB creepage/clearances are pretty bad, the 22ga wiring is not rated for the fuse fault current, power transformer has no approvals... I could go on. Generally, the insulation components are not suitable for mains use, only low voltage. The design could NEVER pass regulatory. A hi-pot test would tell you right away.

Always run one of these (and your entire workbench) through a GFCI for better safety. Never leave it plugged in unattended. Never mess with the connector is it's plugged in.
Title: Re: DEADLY WIRING FAULT ; Atten 858D+ Hot Air Rework Station
Post by: Knifa on April 29, 2017, 12:37:51 am
How can RS resell this when it has no safety approvals? There are laws, in USA/Canada/UK that you can't sell products (vs import) without proper regulatory certs.
I believe RS would be liable if you got electrocuted or it burned your house down.

I contacted their support and asked if it was safe, linking this thread. They replied saying it was indeed safe.

Can't know for sure though, eh? Going by everything else that's known it doesn't seem too good. It does have a different connector, so it might just be the same shell?
Title: Re: DEADLY WIRING FAULT ; Atten 858D+ Hot Air Rework Station
Post by: TheSpecialist on January 14, 2018, 11:20:49 pm
Sorry to bump this thread from April last year, but as a long time lurker, I thought I'd add my experiences of one of these type units.  In my case, I've got the 852D+ by WEP, which I purchased early last year.
I started having problems with the iron itself (haven't really used the blower much).  Difficulty with soldering connections, and discovered through temperature testing, that the irons temperature at the tip, isn't stable at all, and seems to fluctuate a fair bit.  Despite trying to set the temperature with the LCD, I couldn't get the iron to go above a certain temperature.  Comparing the LCD reading with the actual iron temperature, it was way off, and I had to adjust a preset in the unit, but even that seemed very tricky.
Adjusting the preset though (to get higher temperatures), strangely seemed to give me problems when selecting lower temperatures.
I thought I had a faulty multimeter temperature probe at first, so I used the probe to test the adjustable temperature of something else, and the temperature seemed far more stable, so I don't know what's wrong with this unit!
Title: Re: DEADLY WIRING FAULT ; Atten 858D+ Hot Air Rework Station
Post by: satelliteau on April 09, 2018, 01:56:39 pm
I just purchased an 858D branded 'HiYLKO' from ebay, Australian company and Australian stock. Having heard about the safety issues with some of these units, the first thing I went to check was the earth pin to chassis connection. Needn't have bothered - these is no earth pin on the male end of the power cable, and it's hard wired into the back of the unit (no IEC connector). It's an Aus standard 'Type I' plug, no international adapters involved.

Is there any consensus on which 858D is the best/safest option? I see that the Atten 858D+ is twice the price of the generic models, is it any better?
Title: Re: DEADLY WIRING FAULT ; Atten 858D+ Hot Air Rework Station
Post by: Electro Detective on April 09, 2018, 11:16:26 pm
OneHungLow Electronics and Online Sweatshoppe Supply should offer these death devices in a basic kit form for those of us suspicious -burnt twice three times stupid- burb dwelling battlers/cheapskates/can't afforders

that are going to pull apart and fix/remedy/secure their products anyway

'Promise Products' cobbled together by 6 year olds and their ailing grandmothers using mini blowtorch soldering and used wooden toothpick and clothesline clip vice techniques on oily PCBs,
in some far off local dictator bullied snow buried mountain region poverty province I can't pronounce or find on a map 


I would prefer it that way, it saves on dis-assembly time to make their halfassed assembly/soldered product work right, and be sort of safe,
and spot what needs to be done right off the bat.

i.e. a total board rework, a few beefier component swaps, power lead and polarity check, proper fuse, a bonus surprise troubleshoot/failure  |O 

and the final cable tie frenzy, finding better screws, washers, entry glands and feet etc etc   
and lots of tea, coffee, vodka, headache pills, apologies to the neighbors for the foul mancave language...


This should also amount to less beatings and whippings for the shoeless 6 year olds and their one foot at deaths door ailing grandmothers
when we complain and return the products for a refund from 'Golden Star Online Trading'

and pray you get your paypal credit asap before they go  belly up and resume the same BS as  'Shining Star Online Trading'  ::)

Title: Re: DEADLY WIRING FAULT ; Atten 858D+ Hot Air Rework Station
Post by: joeyjoejoe on August 17, 2018, 11:34:02 pm
I just got a WEP 858D from Amazon.ca.

Happy to find the fuse was on the hot wire, the nozzle was grounded. Board says YH858D V11 for the model/iteration.

I figured I would bump this thread with the new info as it shows up on google searches for these models.
Title: Re: DEADLY WIRING FAULT ; Atten 858D+ Pictures
Post by: schmitt trigger on August 18, 2018, 12:13:21 am


Last night I also notified the Ebay seller in China and to his credit received a prompt reply indicating his great concern and that he would notifiy the manufacturer and his customers of the problem.

I bet he was shocked by your email.
Now seriously. This was a serious problem.
Title: Re: DEADLY WIRING FAULT ; Atten 858D+ Hot Air Rework Station
Post by: LiftedTrace on January 26, 2019, 04:02:03 am
Quote
The simplest thing to try for any hot air reworkstation is a calibration procedure,
to determine how the output setting is set and if its correct.  Now, how the hot air output from the nozzle translates to heating any item is another story as it depends on the mass needed to heat,  if the item has been preheated and ambient temperature of the lab.
and Quote from: 3roomlab on Yesterday at 08:54:42 PM
Quote
comparatively, i did not take 1-2 minutes to melt solder, i think the heating speed feels about the same as what i saw before. then i got curious about the temperature, and here is what i discovered the wide margin of error between temp setting and actual output. when i first tried at a dial of 200, flow = minimum, the temperature imparted to the PCB after about 30s is way way way way way over 210C. in fact, to hit 210C in about 30s, all i need to dial in is about 165 (see pic).

with a wallwatt device, at 165 setting. the station draws periodic cycles of 100-260w of power draw. i hope the above temperature points are helpful hints to users.

something for a diy weekender all you need is the chinese head unit like this one.  the rest of the unit can be made in the lab . ie arduino temp and fun control in a case. the had part is calibration of the temperature for accuracy. standby run commands .
looking at the data shows the chinese 220V ceramic heating element can push a top of 500c so that 24v fan must keep the air flow high as needed.so maybe fun with arduino programming the heating map. only time will tell if this will work. note- how light the wires are. needs better cable & more air holes in the handle grip.  also note- the reed switch and magnet used as  head unit sits in a cradle mounted on the side of the case . the magnet in the cradle trips the reed switch B inside the head unit case. for standby or low setting. I will post when i start work on it. find a 700w step down transformer & re-wire the output 40V? need to test it . then map out a schematic, then make art work of the case,  and all the parts inside it. by mid 2017 I hope.

I just got one off amazon (YouYue 858D). It looks identical to yours. I chose this one because it had a removable cable. When I opened it up after reading these posts, I noticed the wires for feeding the heating element were "TIIIIIIIIIIINY!!!!" The same size as the fan wires.
The wires running up through the cable are tiny too. The wires in the handle for the reed switch are larger than the ones for the heating element  :palm: :-DD
Now I don't know if I should spend time making it better only to find it fails later, or just return it.
I don't have money to spend a few hundred bucks on a nice one, and don't have the experience to build my own.
I guess it would be a fun project to breath some confidence in it to where it wont melt down on me. If it dies down the road....meh! It was only 40 bucks, cant expect much for that  :clap:
Title: Re: DEADLY WIRING FAULT ; Atten 858D+ Hot Air Rework Station
Post by: MrMobodies on January 26, 2019, 03:38:12 pm
(https://i.imgur.com/phejtSs.jpg)

That hot snot around the receptacle looks dodgy but they made the effort to heat shrink the ends.

It looks like the receptacle  clip does not go down far enough to secure it tight to the cover and without the glue it might be loose and wobble.
Title: Re: DEADLY WIRING FAULT ; Atten 858D+ Hot Air Rework Station
Post by: Joserrodz on October 04, 2019, 03:31:05 am
Hi! I just purchased a 858D Hot Air Rework Unit and I went ahead and checked it for safety. I just found a lack of ground to the rear metal cover and corrected it! I also found that my unit is “neutral switched” but I need some help to fix it! Will you reply with either written instructions or pictures as to what wires to switch among the PC Board and the On/Off Switch so I can fix it! Thank you !